So, who's drafting a Living Will? (Find out how, inside!)

[mr.Curmudgeon]

If you are interested in drafting a Living Will, here are some resources to help do so:

"The US Living Will Registry - electronically stores advance directives, and makes them available to health care providers 24 hours/day via secure internet or telephone facsimile... a free service, by the way. Be sure to check out the state-by-state list of Advance Directive Forms. See also, the American Bar Associations information for advanced medical directives" [via: MetaFilter]


mrC

[ChadTower]

It won't matter - the first time congress sees a photo op, they'll tromp the 10th amendment and do away with a person's living will, too.  Congress is entirely out of control.

[menace]

We just crafted our living will and our "non-living" will last night.  There are a ton of resources on the web under "living will example" under google.

I guess thats one thing about the schiavo case, it really brings your attention to the fact that without one, you would could be kept alive in a possible  vegetative state while your relatives are at each other's throats over what to do with you...

[GGKoul]

We just crafted our living will and our "non-living" will last night.

[menace]

for the living will i got mine from the state of hawaii oddly enough (isn't the internet wonderful?) but for out regular will i think we did use the kit--I'll have to have a a lwayer peruse it before I die 

[Bones]

I have no need for this. I have already proved I am immortal.

[Dartful Dodger]

You are all figments of my imagination, so for your sakes, keep me alive as long as possible.

[quarterback]

Lots of people are drafting these.

[fredster]

Made mine.

[ChadTower]

Too bad Dr. Bill Frist didn't decide to care about Sun Hudson .   A hospital takling a baby off life support, against the wishes of it's parents, because the family can't pay the bills is much more sympathetic argument to make for "life" IMO.

Tragic as it is, that case is not analagous.  That baby had no chance whatsoever and it was a miracle it survived birth itself.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Me and my G/F are working on these wills now, exactly because of this circus. i don't want Tom DeLay on MY front lawn, with Jeb Bush trying to yank my body out the front door. There is NO WAY I want my rotting, incapacitated body to come between any members of my family.

I think it's selfish *not* to have one. I could suffer a stroke/heart attack/et al.  tonight while sleeping, creating a brain damaged state (some would argue I already *am* in such a state)...and I'm tortured by the idea of forcing my girlfriend to make the decision to keep me around or let me die.

No lay-person should be responsible for such a decision, and a living will seems like the simplest way to avoid that.

I like the idea of pulling the plug if I fall beyond a reasonable "response threshold"..or if significant irreversible brain damage occurs. Who wants to live without memories or thought?

mrC

[ChadTower]

I like the idea of pulling the plug if I fall beyond a reasonable "response threshold"..or if significant irreversible brain damage occurs.

So, unless you're a neurologist, you're leaving those same people the decision of exactly what "response threshhold" or "significant irreversible damage" means.

It's a no win situation.  Someone other than you will be forced to make that decision no matter what your living will says.  Don't think for a second that if you are a target of political opportunity that your little document will keep them off of you.  They're pissing on the Constitution of the US right now, what is your living will in comparison to that?

[Dartful Dodger]

Who wants to live without memories or thought?

We all started without memories or thoughts.
None of us had the ability to want to live, but here we are.

[menace]

We all started without memories or thoughts.
None of us had the ability to want to live, but here we are.

I realize you have some personal vendetta with MrC but please try and make sense with your arguments--just because you don't recall your thoughts doesn't mean you weren't having them, babies become "aware"  in the womb (the exact time eludes me)  I swear you type this stuff just to get people to type back without giving it much thought to its content...

[Shape D.]

We all started without memories or thoughts.
None of us had the ability to want to live, but here we are.

I realize you have some personal vendetta with MrC but please try and make sense with your arguments--just because you don't recall your thoughts doesn't mean you weren't having them, babies become "aware"  in the womb (the exact time eludes me)  I swear you type this stuff just to get people to type back without giving it much thought to its content...

I think hes stating that It was never our choice to be born, It was our parents. And to play devils advocate in early stages of embryonic development we do not have mental awareness.

[ChadTower]

I swear you type this stuff just to get people to type back without giving it much thought to its content...

So why were you stupid enough to do it?

[menace]

I was "stupid" enough (real nice shot by the way, way to keep the conversations at an adult level--you booger-licking, monkey fart) because any point that is that incorrect deserves a response.

See the difference with babies and an adult with a living will is that babies are ALL like that, thats how they arrive, no one expects any differently and they all require the same amount of care.  When you become an adult with no higher brain function that is not a NORMAL condition and the person should be allowed to end that existance as they see fit.  Comparing babies to adults is like comparing an egg to a chicken--its the same organism but at dramatically different developmental stages.

Some developmental info here:

http://www.enfamil.com/babys_develop/prenatal/b_1_10.html

[ChadTower]

I was "stupid" enough (real nice shot by the way, way to keep the conversations at an adult level--you booger-licking, monkey fart)

No problem anuslicker.

because any point that is that incorrect deserves a response.

In that case, we are some damn good looking people 'round here.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Who wants to live without memories or thought?

We all started without memories or thoughts.
None of us had the ability to want to live, but here we are.

I....don't.....even know how to respond. I'm not usually one for want of words, but.....

Are you drafting a living will or not? Did they pull your feeding tube already? Is that why your posts are so insane?


mrC

[Dartful Dodger]

Are you drafting a living will or not?

Is that still the question?

I was under the impression you were now asking a different question.

I got that impression when you asked a different question.

Who wants to live without memories or thought?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I like the idea of pulling the plug if I fall beyond a reasonable "response threshold"..or if significant irreversible brain damage occurs.

So, unless you're a neurologist, you're leaving those same people the decision of exactly what "response threshhold" or "significant irreversible damage" means.

Not exactly. I, in my living will, will spell out what I determine to be an acceptable "response threshold", if I can no longer meet it, I want to die. Significant irreversible damage can be measured along very subjective lines, without involving a murky moral compass. But I think response thresholds are better since it's up to me to meet them.

It's a no win situation. Someone other than you will be forced to make that decision no matter what your living will says.

To me, the living will is the best "good faith" effort I can make to help them make that decision. To just assume that because they may have to pull your plug anyway, it's somehow worthless to provide them a standard by outlining your wishes just seems like a defeatist attitude to me.

Don't think for a second that if you are a target of political opportunity that your little document will keep them off of you.  They're pissing on the Constitution of the US right now, what is your living will in comparison to that?

Yes. They are aren't "they." I'd rather have them fight a battle that included my living will, then give them carte blanche to do whatever the hell they wish.

The way you argue reminds me of a friend of mine. He often advocates doing nothing, since something will always off-set it anyhow. He doesn't do much of anything because of it. 



mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Are you drafting a living will or not?

Is that still the question?

I was under the impression you were now asking a different question.

I got that impression when you asked a different question.

Who wants to live without memories or thought?

As it is the title of the thread, it's always going to be the question. And being that I have no idea on how to respond to your moral-poetry type response, I deffered to the topic at hand.

Plus, I am genuinely curious as to what you think about living wills? Or what you'd want done for you if you were in a "Permanent Vegetative State" and on life support? (Please reserve the ethical debate on Schiavo's specific situation for the Schiavo Thread, I'll do the same.)



mrC

[Dartful Dodger]

(Please reserve the ethical debate on Schiavo's specific situation for the Schiavo Thread, I'll do the same.)

Ethical debate?
moral-poetry?
My posts in this thread are devoid of such things.

There once was this nun from Nantucket...

...ooops, Sorry, my bad.

[Dartful Dodger]

I swear you type this stuff just to get people to type back without giving it much thought to its content...

So why were you stupid enough to do it?

 

I need to stop skimming through threads, I almost missed all of this.

I think hes stating that It was never our choice to be born, It was our parents. And to play devils advocate in early stages of embryonic development we do not have mental awareness.

I made that comment in reference to the early stages of embryonic development.
Although I like the "It was never our choice to be born" angle.

[ChadTower]

Yes. They are aren't "they." I'd rather have them fight a battle that included my living will, then give them carte blanche to do whatever the hell they wish.

You can "they" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that they are wrong.  I have no problem with calling them on it.  It's not only wrong, it's hugely wrong.

[DrewKaree]

I guess thats one thing about the schiavo case, it really brings your attention to the fact that without one, you would could be kept alive in a possible  vegetative state while your relatives are at each other's throats over what to do with you...

....and that you could be killed against your wishes if you hadn't put it in writing.  I've had mine done because the right-to-die folks will be working harder after this case, so hopefully this will give the courts who hear my case the chance to hear my wishes instead of listening to doctors who will know little to nothing of me and may be diametrically opposed to my and my wife's views. 

These types of things sound like they'll become more dependent on a doctor's views than a judge's anyway.

[quarterback]

Too bad Dr. Bill Frist didn't decide to care about Sun Hudson .

[DrewKaree]

Why'd you take that last bit off?  I was starting to look into that.  It didn't seem particularly offensive to me.

[Bones]

Too bad Dr. Bill Frist didn't decide to care about Sun Hudson .

[DrewKaree]

Forget drafting a will.  You're gonna have to tattoo it to your chest and hopefully some alert nurse and administrator will be able to read it in the language you have it done in so you aren't killed against your will

Thankfully we're "taking care" of the Social Security problem in America by ourselves.....that's good ol' 'mercan ingenuity at work there......soon enough, we'll be able to handle it without cutting benefits, and the people paying in right now...their grandkids can "take matters into their own hands" with a few more bassackwards judges.

Whaddaya know....never saw THIS type of stuff coming, did you?

[saint]

Replies in the other two threads.

Forget drafting a will.  You're gonna have to tattoo it to your chest and hopefully some alert nurse and administrator will be able to read it in the language you have it done in so you aren't killed against your will

Thankfully we're "taking care" of the Social Security problem in America by ourselves.....that's good ol' 'mercan ingenuity at work there......soon enough, we'll be able to handle it without cutting benefits, and the people paying in right now...their grandkids can "take matters into their own hands" with a few more bassackwards judges.

Whaddaya know....never saw THIS type of stuff coming, did you?

[jbox]

None of us had the ability to want to live, but here we are.

Well, how about the next time you get re-incarnated: SWIM SLOWER!