Console catver.ini - CALL TO ARMS

[screaming]

To everyone that uses a console emulator in their cabinet:

  Being able to sort and filter your game lists based on categories is a much-used feature for MAME games. I've seen numerous requests for something like for console emulators but to date I haven't seen too many attempts (if any) at getting something together.

  Here is my official, bona fied attempt at getting "official" catvers for console-based emulators. If everyone who said they were interested in this sort of thing categorize 2 or 3 letters from every console emulator they use then we can collectively bang this thing out together pretty quickly. Just think, in a couple weeks from now you can have every Mahjong game known to man in a single game list.  OH MY what a glorious day that will be!

  I would like to open this thread up and gather ideas on how this thing should be put together. Should we go with GoodTools' format for the ROMs? That seems to be the "standard"....  The problem that I see with that is the resulting catver.ini will technically be "illegal" since technically you can't have spaces in the "key" part of the setting, in this case, the rom name ('12-in-1 (Unl) [!]' for example). Some frontends might have a problem with that.  I tried it against my MAMEWAH Config program and that parsed it just fine right out of the box, but I'd like for the catver to get a little more FE exposure before we decide that's the way to go.

  The good news is once the data has been entered, manipulating it is the easy part.  We should start entering data now and decide on a resulting format as we go.

  To that end, I have set up a web page for data entry here.  On this page you will see a couple platforms to get me started but I'll add as many as people need (just send me a dat file for the platform and I'll add it). Next to each platform there are a couple links:

edit - update category information. Once every game has been filled out this link will be removed.
test - a catver.ini file for that platform with random categories entered.. for compatibility testing
download - download the "official" catver file for that console. Until it's complete, it will be considered a WIP catver.

  Once in the edit screen, you simply select your game and select the category that game belongs in and click Submit. Big-bang-boom, one more game done.

  The categories were parsed from the current catver.ini for MAME.  If we need to add categories, and I'm sure we will, I'll have to add them manually. It's no big deal.

  If there is interest in this project I will spruce up the pages some more and make them more user friendly and work on fixing the load time.

  I know a lot of people will benefit from an hour or two worth of work from us, and I think it will be fun to be a part of something that everyone will love you for.

  Who's with me?

-Steve

[Silver]

Nice idea - but are you sure no one/no website has started this before? It may give you a jump start.

Also - you may need to add some type options.

eg GoldenEye on the N64, its first person shooter (2 player). You can select "shooter" as a category, but the only 1st person option is "Flying 1st person". Nothing else really fits.

The problem is you may end up with 85% of games under a couple of types, making it a lot less useful for filtering....

[screaming]

Nice idea - but are you sure no one/no website has started this before? It may give you a jump start.

  I couldn't find any, so if you have any suggestions I'm all ears.

Also - you may need to add some type options.

  I absolutely know that I'll have to add categories, as I said, but I just want to avoid it if possible. My next "upgrade" to this input system is to give some game suggestions based on games that have already been entered for each category.  That will help, I think, in helping decide which category to put a game in.  Are there any games in MAME like Golden Eye that we can use as a suggestion for the N64 version?

-Steve

[jcrouse]

I have spent quite a while looking into this and nothing currently exists. I have worked with a couple of people gathering input including MinWAH. It seems the popular suggestion is to create some sort of DAT file. I have created an application called DAT Generator. I have used it and it's pretty bug free however the output is only what I thought should be included. If you do a search, either here or at Mameworld you will find quite a bit of discussion about this topic. I agree It is one of the most overlooked improvements/contributions that could be made to the emu community.

John

PS: here is one thread at Mameworld:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=arcadeospc2jamma&Number=19688&Forum=arcadeospc2jamma&Words=DAT&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=19646&Search=true#Post19688

[screaming]

I have spent quite a while looking into this and nothing currently exists. I have worked with a couple of people gathering input including MinWAH. It seems the popular suggestion is to create some sort of DAT file. I have

  I'm not sure we're on the same page here.. I'm not looking to add all the information for ROMs, I just want category information. The catver "standard" already exists and is already implemented all over the place (for MAME ROMs anyway).

  I suppose adding complete information for each ROM could be an ultimate goal, but I think having category information would be more popular than game manufacturer, year or controller/accessory type (joystick, dancepad, lightgun, etc).  What other fields would not be standard across a particular platform?  Setting number of buttons, screen type, and orientation for each ROM seems a little pointless to me. ..but I don't use more computer-ie emulators like Amiga or Commodore so I can't speak for those. 

  I'm pretty sure that I read a lot more requests for categories than I do for that other info.  Maybe the people that want that information are just too lazy to ask for it though

  It might be worth doing both at the same time, but IMO the resulting files should follow the "standard" at least initially so FEs have a chance to catch up.  Category information in a catver.ini and other ROM information in a ClrMamePro-style DAT file.  Either way, once the data has been input, outputting it in any format is quick and easy.

In other words, we'll pull a Microsoft: Pretend we're all about the standard and become accepted, then redefine what the standard is .

PS: here is one thread at Mameworld:

  Woah, would you mind fixing that post so I don't have to scroll please?

sab

[screaming]

eg GoldenEye on the N64, its first person shooter (2 player). You can select "shooter" as a category, but the only 1st person option is "Flying 1st person". Nothing else really fits.

  Oops, I realized there was a problem with my PHP that prevented that 1st Person Shooter subcategory from displaying. I updated it and it now displays!  It looks like I don't have to add a category after all!

  There will still be some that will need to be created though and I have to do a bit of reorganization to do, like why is Wrestling its own category and not under Sports?

  Anyway, I'll be updating ROMs this weekend hopefully, and a little here and there this week.  Hopefully some of you kind BYOACers will join me

-Steve

[slycrel]

I would love to have something like this going.

[screaming]

edit:  I don't see an RPG category there...  gotta add that one!

  Yeah! I spent a little time the other night adding games.. I'll do it when I can too.

  Anyway, I'm guessing we should try and use existing MAME catver categories just to avoid confusion when filtering games.. But I'd like to get other opinions on that.  What do you think?

  One RPG-type game that I can think of for MAME is Gauntlet, who's category is Maze / Shooter Large.

-sab

[jcrouse]

Yes Screaming, you are correct. We are talking about slightly different things but they do have some things in common. What I was talking about was taking the Good Tools naming convention and also the TOSEC standard and using the "official" rom name to generate a DAT file. This way, from within a FE you could create custom lists built certain criteria which ALREADY EXISTS. Things like country code and such. It would help weed out some of the clones which pollute our game lists for the consoles. As ststed, this could be quite simple since the information is already right there.

I think you have a great idea but trying to gather and input all that information (someone also needs to verify it or at least a mechanism in place for this). Look at the controls.ini project for MAME. I think this is one of the greatest addons/enhancements going and it seems to have fallen off and hasn't had much activity in ages and that's just one platform.

I'm not trying to be discouraging here, just realistic, and will support your efforts but it seems like a TREMENDOUS amount of work. As stated, we can't seem to get controls added for 5000 MAME games and your project could encompass what, maybe 200,000 roms/games for 50 or more platforms.

Also, just my 2 cents (FWIW), the Good Tools standard sucks. If you've ever written a standard and understand them, it's a joke. The TOSEC standard is a much more properly defined standard.

Anyways, I hope this clarifies what I was originally talking about.

Please reply with your thoughts,
John

[Shooter]

What happened to the website?
Are you still doing this screeming?
I have entered some and will enter more this weekend.

now its working for me.

[screaming]

What happened to the website?
Are you still doing this screeming?
I have entered some and will enter more this weekend.

now its working for me.

 
   I didn't change anything after I fixed the PHP problem above..

  I'll be going balls to the wall adding NES games this weekend (That's one of the bigger consoles if not the biggest).

  If there are any other consoles that you're interested in adding categories to, send me over a DAT file and I'll make it an option to the list.

-sab

[slycrel]

  Would it be easy for you to allow a filter to only show games that had no information entered for them yet?  That might make it more agreeable to getting it done.  As it is now it looks like you can just keep overwriting current entries by re-selecting them.

  I did a few genesis games but have had my hands full lately moving from a PC to an xbox inside my cab.  Once I get that all taken care of I'll dive into this some more.

  Good tools just doesn't cut it for me...  I'd love to see this a success.