WG D9200 and ArcadeVGA video card question?

[redcoats]

Well I'm new to this forum but been a long time lurker, I just have a quick question. I own the WG D9200 arcade monitor and right now I'm running it with a geforce 3. I was wondering would an ArcadeVga card really make that much of a difference? I think the games look good now but if I install the card will my jaw drop when I see the difference? Thanks for any help.

[elvis]

What software are you running on the cab, and what resolutions do you use?

[redcoats]

I use 640X480 and sometimes 800X600 and I'm using Mame 32 on windows me. Geforce 3 with the latest video drivers.

[wpcmame]

Well I'm new to this forum but been a long time lurker, I just have a quick question. I own the WG D9200 arcade monitor and right now I'm running it with a geforce 3. I was wondering would an ArcadeVga card really make that much of a difference? I think the games look good now but if I install the card will my jaw drop when I see the difference? Thanks for any help.

Depends on what you mean. Do you want the games to look good or look like they did in the arcades? It is not necessarily the same thing.
In the arcades, the games rarly used square pixels which is what you get with the standard windows resolutions (640x480, 800x600). Most games also used scanlines (i.e. every second row is blank). ArcadeVGA makes it easy (almost plug'n play) to fix both the pixel shape and the scanlines but you can get the same result easily with software.
I recommend you to enable the scanlines in mame and see if you like what you see.

[redcoats]

Well I'm new to this forum but been a long time lurker, I just have a quick question. I own the WG D9200 arcade monitor and right now I'm running it with a geforce 3. I was wondering would an ArcadeVga card really make that much of a difference? I think the games look good now but if I install the card will my jaw drop when I see the difference? Thanks for any help.

Depends on what you mean. Do you want the games to look good or look like they did in the arcades? It is not necessarily the same thing.
In the arcades, the games rarly used square pixels which is what you get with the standard windows resolutions (640x480, 800x600). Most games also used scanlines (i.e. every second row is blank). ArcadeVGA makes it easy (almost plug'n play) to fix both the pixel shape and the scanlines but you can get the same result easily with software.
I recommend you to enable the scanlines in mame and see if you like what you see.

So will the scanlines in mame make it almost spot on with the arcade versions? And if I use scanlines what percentage should I set it at for the closest to arcade? When you brought up software were you talking about mame being the software? Or is there some other program out there where I can replicate this without having to buy the arcadevga?

[wpcmame]

So will the scanlines in mame make it almost spot on with the arcade versions?

The look of scanlines depends on the monitor. If it looks like the arcade version depends on how "arcade like" your monitor is. Scanlines on a normal PC monitor will not look arcade like. However, there is no difference between hardware and software scanlines on the same monitor.

And if I use scanlines what percentage should I set it at for the closest to arcade?

Just plain "scanlines". The % versions exist in mame to make scanlines look more arcade like on PC monitors.

When you brought up software were you talking about mame being the software? Or is there some other program out there where I can replicate this without having to buy the arcadevga?

To create non-square pixels you need to use resolutions which aren't 4:3. Look at the avga webpage and you can see which ones are built into AVGA. You need to create similar resolutions on your PC so mame can use them. Since you will use software scanlines you need to double the AVGA resolutions but otherwise they are a good start.

Some graphic card drivers have funtionality built in to create new resolutions (NVidia?) but for others you can use powerstrip (www.entchtaiwan.com) $30 Shareware. There is also a free program called RivaTuner which might be able to do it but I haven't tried it myself.

[elvis]

I use 640X480 and sometimes 800X600 and I'm using Mame 32 on windows me. Geforce 3 with the latest video drivers.

Running a D9200 at 640x480 is a crime.  Yes, you will see a huge difference when running games at their native res.

There are people on this board (myself included) who would kill for a D9200, but for one reason or another cannot get them (being southern hemisphere, we've got zero chance of finding one for less than $1000 locally).  To be told that there are folks who have one and don't even use it the way it was meant to be used almost brings a tear to my eye.

[paigeoliver]

I have a D9200, and I have run it both ways, it is much better with the arcade VGA. VGA res games look right, standard res games look right. Everything just looks right.

If you are putting out the cash for a D9200 then put out the extra cash for the arcade VGA, otherwise you might as well just buy a used 27" VGA presentation monitor, those can usually be had at most computer shows for around $250-$300.

[rockmes]

Hey Elvis ,  if you live in Melbourne , there's a place called Zax that sell the D9200 27 inch for $895.00 AU
http://www.zax.com.au/amusementmachines.html
look under spare parts and you will find it listed and with the price.

Ciao

[redcoats]

I have a D9200, and I have run it both ways, it is much better with the arcade VGA. VGA res games look right, standard res games look right. Everything just looks right.

If you are putting out the cash for a D9200 then put out the extra cash for the arcade VGA, otherwise you might as well just buy a used 27" VGA presentation monitor, those can usually be had at most computer shows for around $250-$300.

Thanks Paige I'll keep that in mind. The only reason I haven't bought one is because my current video card gets the job done. But if you guys think that it is that much of a difference, I guess I'll have to break down and get one. Oh and don't get me wrong

[AceTKK]

the 9200 is so popular because it can run standard res games at their native resolution, as well as displaying Windows programs in 640x480 or 800x600.  Most arcade games ran on the arcade machines at 320x240, 300x240, 300x256, etc.  What the ArcadeVGA card does is allow your computer to output those resolutions, so that the 9200 can display them properly (without any stretching/dithering).  If you aren't using the low-res modes of the 9200 then it's not really worth owning one; a large computer monitor or television would be cheaper.  The ArcadeVGA + arcade monitor (like the 9200) allows for the most authentic reproduction of actual arcade video available.

-Ace-

[wpcmame]

If you aren't using the low-res modes of the 9200 then it's not really worth owning one; a large computer monitor or television would be cheaper.

[elvis]

Hey Elvis ,  if you live in Melbourne , there's a place called Zax that sell the D9200 27 inch for $895.00 AU
http://www.zax.com.au/amusementmachines.html
look under spare parts and you will find it listed and with the price.

Ciao

Thanks for that.  I've seen their site before, and the prices seem to have dropped a bit since last I checked.  I'm in Brisbane however, so I wonder what postage will be like.  I might give them a bell today and find out.

[desmatic]

If you aren't using the low-res modes of the 9200 then it's not really worth owning one; a large computer monitor or television would be cheaper.  The ArcadeVGA + arcade monitor (like the 9200) allows for the most authentic reproduction of actual arcade video available.

So your are saying that the phosphor on the picture tube works different depending on what frequency the graphic card feed the electronics with.

Sorry, but I don't buy that based on the following reasoning (if you find an error in the reasoning please let me know)

One line on the monitor is drawn by the electron beam. The color of the line is controlled by the intensity of the beam which is controlled by the voltage on the controlling signal. Lets say that a 1V signal means a full intensity.
Do you mean that the line will look different depening on if the 1V signal is generated from 640 or 320 pixels? If the line consists of 160 black dots and 160 white dots, does it matter if each dot consists of 1,2, or 10 pixels in the computer's memory?

Same resoning in the vertical direction. If a completly white image is sent with 15KHz, the beam will draw 240 white lines on the monitor which leaves 240 black scanlines. If the same image is sent with 31KHz and software scanlines, 240 white lines are drawn and between them 240 black lines. No difference.

If the image looks authentic or not depends on the monitor tube not on the electronics. If you could run a PC monitor at 15KHz the picture wouldn't look any more authentic than at 31KHz.

A D9200 makes it a lot easier to display authentic images from a PC since it got a monitor tube with low-res properties but its electronics supports 31KHz. I might still be a good idea to use an AVGA since it contains a lot of predefined resolutions but using it will not give a more authentic display.

It's not just the scanline size that you need to consider.  All horizontal resolutions other than 320 are lossy on a setup running at 640x480.  Basically,

ArcadeVGA will allow you to perfectly emulate
240 line games
480 line games

AdvanceMAME (on a supported card) will allow you to perfectly emulate
192 - 240 line games
384 - 416 line games
480 line games

and Windows MAME on an ordinary VGA setup will allow you to perfectly emulate games running at 320x240.

[redcoats]

the 9200 is so popular because it can run standard res games at their native resolution, as well as displaying Windows programs in 640x480 or 800x600.

[wpcmame]

It's not just the scanline size that you need to consider.

[desmatic]

It's not just the scanline size that you need to consider.  All horizontal resolutions other than 320 are lossy on a setup running at 640x480.  Basically,

yes, but you don't have to use 640x480 just beacuse you run the monitor at 31KHz. You have the same freedom to alter the resolution as with a 15KHz signal.
Running 256x256 in 15KHz or 1024x512 in 31Khz (with integer stretch and software scanlines) isn't going to look any different.

ArcadeVGA will allow you to perfectly emulate
240 line games
480 line games

The AVGA got a lot of 240 line modes built in which makes it easy to map game resolutions to display resolution (but only one 480 mode so it can't display e.g. tapper, 512x480 properly). But matching the game resolution isn't everything. One example: All modes on the AVGA are set up so that they fill up the monitor horizontally but we all know that on most arcade monitors it is impossible to have the image fill the screen vertically for all games. If I use the AVGA resolution 256x256 to adjust my monitor, all 240 lines modes will have the wrong aspect ratio since they will have a black border of 16 lines (6%) at top/bottom. To get correct aspect ratio for 240 line games I need to increase the horizontal resolution by 6% as well (i.e. I should use 336x240 for 320x240 games, no stretching ofcourse). I am not saying that it is a big deal but with your reasoning the image would not be "perfectly emulated" if I use 336x240 for a 320x240 game.

AdvanceMAME (on a supported card) will allow you to perfectly emulate
192 - 240 line games
384 - 416 line games
480 line games

Where did you get the limits from? advancemame can create the exact resolution of any game. If your monitor supports the frequencies generated is another story. But the monitor setup has the same impact on advancemame as it does on the AVGA. If you adjust your monitor for a specific number of lines you need to adjust the horizontal resolution for all games with a different number of lines.

If you knew enough to alter the resolutions for a Windows based setup, why wouldn't you just run the correct modes and be done with it?  Not to mention, I seriously doubt anyone's doing this anyway.  People complain about AdvanceMAME being complicated, and you're suggesting adding hand written modeline entries to the windows registry, assuming you knew the exact notation and location for the video card and monitor parameters you'd need to modify.  As there's no modeline calculator, other than AdvanceMAME's that's capable of doing this, you'd have to use AdvanceMAME to calculate the modes anyways.  So what's the point?  Either way it comes down to AdvanceMAME.  The only advantage with a Windows based setup, is that you get proprietary drivers.


Like I said, the arcadevga will perfectly emulate 240 line games.  It's a pity it only runs 640x480 at 31kHz.  I thought that was adjustable, but so be it.

The configuration for the D9200 is on my site.  The D9200 is not a 15kHz monitor, it's a multisync monitor that supports a 1-2kHz horizontal clock range at 15kHz, 25kHz, 31kHz, hence the numbers above.  It will also correctly display all vertical games out of vsync.