only in australia!

[danny_galaga]

well, over the weekend they started random drug-testing of motorists in Victoria. a world first i think. they caught someone after only FOUR cars! 

if caught you face a $300 fine and demerit points off your licence. The drugs they are testing for are marijuana and speed. in principal i think it's not a bad idea, but i'd like to see it treated in the same way as alcohol. that is, you only face a fine/loss of licence if you're over some 'limit'. THC stays in the bloodstream quite a while, so that even a day after you've had a smoke and you're not even stoned you could get a fine. but you would probably be a much safer driver than someone who is just under the alcohol limit.
i do a lot of driving in my work and my big worry is that if they introduce it where i live i could lose my licence.
and before anyone says 'well, just don't smoke'- I DONT  but if i go to a friends, or to a party and theres smoking going on so long as i can smell it i'll be getting some THC in my bloodstream.
with regards speed and truck drivers and cab drivers, a zero limit is probably a good idea. one of the target groups of this operation is truck drivers. some take speed to stay awake (and as the US airforce found out, it doesn't work as well as they they'd imagined). there have been some accidents involving really 'wired' drivers.

[danny_galaga]

here is an a transcript from a tv report a little while back:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s838743.htm

i like this bit especially:

"Narration: With the morgue results leaving little room for argument, Katherine Tzambasis and her team at Melbourne

[Bones]

Here's the thing....

What do we have in Australia, like 1000 road deaths a year? What percentage of these is caused by the drugs they are referring to? I would say the numbers are less than 50 people. That's a terrible human loss but a small percentage.

So the cops are put out there in high numbers and spend god knows how much money to enforce these new laws. In the mean time, people are getting caught and getting themselves into all sorts of problems financially with loss of license, loss of employment, court defenses and the personal emotional effect of being labeled a "druggie" by family and workers.

From perhaps the 50 people per year who do come to grief on the roads and test positive for drugs (not alcohol), what percentage of these fatalities are caused by the offending drug and not the same thing that caused the other 950 deaths? 

Typical Australian government stupidity. They WILL catch people, the results WILL be all over the news for weeks on end, and then next year the road death toll will rise higher and at the expense of 1000's of people who have been made an example of the system that failed again.

Here's an idea

[etoasty]

... stop making the lawyers rich ...

As for pot, I reckon 7 out of every 10 potheads would just like to chill at home and watch Jackass for a good laugh rather than go out. Catching and prosecuting them the day after is just bloody criminal.

At least here in georgia, it's not only the lawyers who get rich. Like speeding tickets the damn cops are using marijuana as a noticeable source of income. My roommate got caught with just enough to maybe fill a bowl, first time offense, but he's gotten over $2000 in fines and fees. There was the actual fine itself ($1000 i think), DUI school ($600), getting his license reinstated ($300), and then he still had to pay for a new license. There were other hidden fees (sounds like a damn bank), but i can't remember them, and he's on probation for a year to boot.

I love how in the US they have to commercial of a pothead in his car at a drive through suddenly gunning his motor out of the blue and hitting a little girl on a tricycle ... cause you know, that stuff happens all the time. 

[DrewKaree]

My roommate got caught with just enough to maybe fill a bowl, first time offense,

Is the law in Georgia the same as by me?  I live in WI, and the law here is that it's illegal to have any, even just enough to fill a bowl.

I love how in the US they have to commercial of a pothead in his car at a drive through suddenly gunning his motor out of the blue and hitting a little girl on a tricycle ... cause you know, that stuff happens all the time. 

I hate how they feel the need to use death to sell things too, although the "sale" in your example is a theory, not a product.

I know what you mean, though....what's next, they'll be showing commercials where there's an alcoholic driving along and his redneck buddy hangs his head out the window and beheads himself on a power wire, and the guy doesn't even notice and keeps driving on home and just goes in the house and goes to bed?  Sheesh, I'm with ya, man, cause you know, that stuff happens all the time 


I'm seriously for abolishing helmet laws because I think it would solve a lot of problems via Darwin's theory.  The fact that there are laws on the books and driver education classes and the friggen questions on the test and people STILL drive without them should be proof enough that "driver education" programs and "common" sense won't ever stop a determined fool. 

We'd look at an NFL player like he was NUTS if he went out on the field without a helmet, but jump on a motorcycle without one?  No problem, man.  I'm 10 feet tall and bulletproof.


Driver education is a pretty phrase that makes people feel good.  Idiots go through the same classes too, and if they get enough questions right, they are given a license.  Did they get the question right about "no, I should NOT run over children in a school zone @ 100 mph" or did they get the "how far do your headlights shine in front of your car at night" question right?  Mix 'em up, it's still possible to pass the test. 

And sense is far from "common".  I know LOTS of people without it.   

[danny_galaga]

At least here in georgia, it's not only the lawyers who get rich. Like speeding tickets the damn cops are using marijuana as a noticeable source of income. My roommate got caught with just enough to maybe fill a bowl, first time offense, but he's gotten over $2000 in fines and fees. There was the actual fine itself ($1000 i think), DUI school ($600), getting his license reinstated ($300), and then he still had to pay for a new license. There were other hidden fees (sounds like a damn bank), but i can't remember them, and he's on probation for a year to boot.

I love how in the US they have to commercial of a pothead in his car at a drive through suddenly gunning his motor out of the blue and hitting a little girl on a tricycle ... cause you know, that stuff happens all the time.

[DrewKaree]

Since you say the "active ingredient" (does that sound like a commercial?) stays in your system for an extended period, how would you go about figuring that out? 

Also, folks who are impaired from alcohol still think it's ok to drink, how much worse do you think it'd be with the doobie-enhanced person the next day? 

I have no idea how long it takes to exit your system, so I'm just asking.  I know that people who dropped acid YEARS ago say they STILL have occasional "episodes" even though they haven't done it in a while.  I understand that pot is probably not close to that, but how do you go about determining a limit on something like that?

Oh, and.....is Dave there, man?

[Harry Potter]

Since you say the "active ingredient" (does that sound like a commercial?) stays in your system for an extended period, how would you go about figuring that out?

From what I read, they give you a preliminary test. If it detects something they give you a more comprehensive one. If that one sets off any alarms, they send it to a forenzic lab for final analysis. There they will find out for sure if you've been naughty yesterday or the week before.

One thing I know for sure is that driving with this crap in you is not safe. I once drove home after 2 (very nice) doobies and a few times I saw things jump out at me from the side of the road. My reaction was trying to get out of the way, without looking. Fortunately it was 3am and no cars on the road. Not one of my greatest moments. 

[danny_galaga]

hehe. the very first time i smoked a joint was driving a car!! damn bad idea. i've only smoked it maybe half a dozen (no, make it six) times in my life. useless for me, all i get is paranoid- not high  otherwise it might be the drug of choice... THC takes a lot longer to leave your system than alcohol. in that link i posted, the boffins recommended you would be reasonably safe to drive 4 hours after smoking. but the THC dissapears quite gradually from the system. alcohol is pretty much totally gone within 24 hours (thanks to your liver) but you can still detect THC a week later. thats why im concerned about whether or not they will use a 'limit' in the roadside checks. the other worry is that people will turn more to other drugs they ARENT testing for so they can still drive legally, if not competently.

[etoasty]

Is the law in Georgia the same as by me?

[Mameotron]

well, over the weekend they started random drug-testing of motorists in Victoria. a world first i think. they caught someone after only FOUR cars!

[DrewKaree]

I must have been WAAAAAAAAA-AAAA(did I say "AAA")AY too subtle earlier 

Anyhoo, on to this

This kind of thing really annoys me, but only because of the illegal search done by the police.

it's not an illegal search if they feel they have probable cause, that's why they use these checkpoints.  See, they use the checkpoints for some reason (let's say they use the mythical "people are driving too fast on that street") that may be valid.  If, in the process of administering the checkpoints, they feel a need to check a vehicle, they will ask the driver.  If they believe the driver is impaired enough, they do the search no matter what.

In the US, the cops must have "probable cause" to search you or your car.  These damn checkpoints (we have them here, but just for alcohol) are clearly not probable cause.  Probable cause is seeing you driving badly or having a bunch of people call and complain about how you drive.

They get away with it because they announce where the checkpoints will be a few days in advance.  Still, that doesn't help someone who is just passing through while on vacation.

If probable cause is having a bunch of people call and complain, think about how utterly swamped the phone board would become if this was known. 

My question is this - if they announce where the checkpoints are, how wasted/stupid would you have to be to either drive around that area in without ensuring that you were clear of "stuff" - OR - how wasted/stupid are you that you can't figure out an alternate route around the checkpoints? 

If you can't evade or ensure you have nothing to hide, isn't that Darwin just a little bit right? 

Also, they aren't just looking for alcohol.  How would you feel if at the checkpoint they caught the alcoholic driving without his license because it was revoked after he ran over Meemaw and Pop Pop and killed them, perhaps after his second or third DUI?

I ask this, because I lived in a city where it happened.

Anybody ever hear a story in the news about the alcoholic with two or three DUI's (OR MORE!  ) who is now in jail after running someone over and killing them?  (mameotron, no sarcasm towards you, just general use here) Riiii-ight, because that happens all the time 

The point I'm getting at is this - THAT is the chucklehead who can't figure out how to evade the cops.  While I don't condone those who DO evade the cops, at least they have enough of a grasp on reality that they know what to do to NOT get caught that particular night!  If they were infringing on rights so egregiously, you'd have to be insane not to think that lawyers wouldn't be all over that.  I know it's a fine line, which I think leads to your other point:

It is just way too easy for the cops to overstep their bounds.  I know that in Louisiana the laws had to be completely rewritten because the cops realized that anything they confiscated in a "drug related crime" did not have to be given back, even if the person was found to be innocent of any crimie.  So they would pull over fancy cars for little things like not using your turn signal and confiscate them for a "drug related crime" and not ever have to give them back.

I agree that it's easy to overstep their bounds. 

That said, mebbe it's the guys who write the laws in each state to fix that.  Change begins with you, and it's your exercising your right to vote that will change these things for the better (sometimes) or for the worse (sometimes).

I'm DrewKaree, and I approved this message 

[Mameotron]

Nah, Drew, I would NEVER accuse you of being too subtle!

I really should clarify what I said.

[DrewKaree]

I'm Mameotron, and pending review by my legal team and image consultant, I approve this message.

LMAO!  Trying to jump the gun on the new "campaign reform bill"?

I dunno, I'll have to muddle through that one.  So far I see it as not obtrusive to me, working, and within the law. 

[Dartful Dodger]

I guess what I'm trying to do is point out that I think the line between legal and illegal searches is pretty clear, and people (not just police) these days are saying it's OK to cross that line if you catch the bad guys.

[DrewKaree]

and now there's THIS! 

danny, beer and a McGyver utensil, was this someone you knew?

[Bones]

and now there's THIS!

[DrewKaree]

Side art will be vector based and most likely feature carrots.

The carrots line - absolutely had me CRACKING up on that line!   


I'm thinking why bother with art?  Just "decorate" it with your buddies!  Kinda like signing someone's cast, but on a much, much grosser scale.

Also, you'd have to have some sort of tube system, so this thing would end up looking like an octopus.

Would it be tied to your in-game performance?

[Bones]

I really wish now I hadn't said that. Vomit is not my friend. Even the fake stuff makes we want to hurl.

I once had a big, big night. Got up in the morning and downed a large glass of milk. This was followed by the sweats before laughing hard at the porcelain. This is my only pleasant vomiting experience. I highly recommend it, the cool milk made it quite refreshing and soothed the dry scratchy throat.

Every other time I visit chuckie it makes me fart and cry.

[danny_galaga]

well, over the weekend they started random drug-testing of motorists in Victoria. a world first i think. they caught someone after only FOUR cars!

[Harry Potter]

incidentally, that first guy who was caught is now trying to get the police for defamation since his name got to the press! in the pigs defence, they weren't the ones reporting it. that guy should sue the news networks!

Actually, it was the pigs who invited the press over. They always do this every time they unwrap a new toy they want to show off.

Although, the bloke should have seen the reporters and told them to F*** *ff and refuse permission to use his name and the photos.

Not a good start to the scheme. If the guy was telling the truth and NOT had any drugs in the last 48 hours, then egg will be all over face of 

[danny_galaga]

incidentally, that first guy who was caught is now trying to get the police for defamation since his name got to the press! in the pigs defence, they weren't the ones reporting it. that guy should sue the news networks!

Actually, it was the pigs who invited the press over. They always do this every time they unwrap a new toy they want to show off.

Although, the bloke should have seen the reporters and told them to F*** *ff and refuse permission to use his name and the photos.

Not a good start to the scheme. If the guy was telling the truth and NOT had any drugs in the last 48 hours, then egg will be all over face of

[Harry Potter]

The papers have a bad habit of splashing people all over the front page to help sell their product.

As for the cops saying they gave no permission, that just sounds like they want to distance themselves from this in case it goes boom.

And remember kids, if you smoke and drive, DON'T TALK TO REPORTERS.