Recommend a Mini-ITX motherboard

[JoyMonkey]

I'm thinking of getting a mini-ITX motherboard to play around with, but there's so many different ones out there that my brain is finding it hard to pick one. What's the difference between an EPIA PD-10000, MII-10000 and a CL-10000? Is there somewhere that has a breakdown/comparison of the different models?

All I know is, I'd like one with the CLE266 chipset, I'd like one around 1Ghz, fanless if possible, with good TV-out. Can anyone suggest something suitable?

Also, what kind of power supply and memory would I need for these?

I'm lost. 

[Hoagie_one]

you can get some info from www.mini-itx.com

they also have a store....in the UK

[JoyMonkey]

The MII 10000 seems to have the best of everything, I'll probably go for that.
What are those little fanless PSU boards that I see in some project though? Do they hook directly up to mains power or what?

[Goz]

I have a MII 10000 and it is a nice board. It is a little misleading that it has a CF slot on the mobo that isn't bootable. But other than that the board is nice. There are a number of add on power boards that are available. I am just using mine with regular AC. (external power block like a laptop). If you are looking at this board for booting CF, you can still do it with a IDE to CF adapter.

-Goz

[Hoagie_one]

how do you hook up those external power blocks.  Do they just plug in like a laptop or did youhave to rig up something?

[JoyMonkey]

I think I'm getting my head around this now. I'd need one of these 12v DC ATX adapters that plugs into the ATX power molex on the motherboard, then a regular 12v DC power adapter from RadioShack or whatever plugs into that. Guess I could also use a 12v DC car adapter. If I had a car 

Cool!

[Goz]

JoyMonkey is getting it.

Mine came with the AC power block and the mobo connector. You can purchase the DC connector separately.

-Goz

[rampy]

Hey JM,

I've got a m10k as well. 

(review of m10k , review of travala c137 mini-itx case )  You can use a standard ATX case (the tiny mobo will just swim in it, however)

I've got mine currently in a crappy, but cheapy micro-atx case I picked up from newegg (actually frosty has the same one, fwiw)

If you're going to be playing back to your TV, yeah you'll want an M or MII series.  One important note if you want to do MPEG2 playback the CL266 chipset has a hardware ASSIST chip, not a full blown decoder.

What were you looking to do/what's your project entail?

Are you putting the mini-itx mobo in a toaster? =P

THe MII's have a slot to slide in a wireless pcmia card which is pretty cool. 

Neither of the 1ghz and up mobo's are fanless though.  Not that you couldn't make them fanless, but there's a small fan on the CPU and this giant amorphous heatsink over the chipset adn the cpu.

*shrug*

rampy

rampy

[Chris]

I've been looking at mini-ITX... I was going to build my brother a control panel that hooked to his TV, but he's looking to build a bartop now, so I'm looking now at a PC to act as a PVR and also contain console emulators and my jukebox...

I wonder if those Mini-ITX power kits supply enough power to run a Mini-ATX motherboard with a mobile processor on it...

[JoyMonkey]

I ordered an MII 10000 from thenerds.com, should have it next week.

I dunno what project I'll use this for, I'm just curious about them. I had thought about putting it in a toaster, then I found that someone beat me to it. Maybe I'll try setting up another PVR, I like MythTV but Linux still scares me, and I don't think the MII 10000 will handle WindowsMCE. Maybe I'll just make it a little portable spare PC. I just dunno.

I also got a cheapy micro-atx case from NewEgg. It's not this one is it?

[rampy]

I got this one.... *shrug* it's pretty cheezy/mediocre...

rampy

[krick]

It's a shame that Andy at Ultimarc doesn't offer a PCI ArcadeVGA because the VIA EPIA M10000 has a PCI slot.

[rampy]

It's a shame that Andy at Ultimarc doesn't offer a PCI ArcadeVGA because the VIA EPIA M10000 has a PCI slot.

I'm going out on the limb here, and say... if you have an arcade monitor that you are using (with the AVGA) you probably have the room to get a more cost effective solution like any micro-atx mobo/chip with much more horespower.

*shrug* that's just my opinion...

rampy

[mr.Curmudgeon]

How powerful are these mini-ITX boards anyhow, in regards to Mame? What type of games can these things run?

I've been trying to figure out their speed/power relative to the Pentium benchmarks...anyone have a link outlining this?

I need to get a sense of where these sit on the computing spectrum... 

Thanks,
mrC

[Samstag]

How powerful are these mini-ITX boards anyhow, in regards to Mame? What type of games can these things run?

I've been trying to figure out their speed/power relative to the Pentium benchmarks...anyone have a link outlining this?

I need to get a sense of where these sit on the computing spectrum...

[Oddfeld]

Maybe I'll try setting up another PVR, I like MythTV but Linux still scares me, and I don't think the MII 10000 will handle WindowsMCE. Maybe I'll just make it a little portable spare PC. I just dunno.

You're right - MythTV/Freevo are scary unless you're a linux geek already.

I'm planning a PVR around an M10000, but I'll be using Media Portal - basically a PC port of the XBox Media Centre project. Since those low power VIA CPUs  haven't got much oomph I'll be using a hardware MPEG encoder (Hauppage WinPVR 350) to do the actual recording, since all the encoding is done by the card with little CPU overhead - you can get good performance for doing simultaneous record/playback, chasing live TV etc, even with a pants mobo.

Media portal is at http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net

Or I could just MAME a kettle or something. Burgertime in a George Foreman grill maybe.

[rampy]

Maybe I'll try setting up another PVR, I like MythTV but Linux still scares me, and I don't think the MII 10000 will handle WindowsMCE. Maybe I'll just make it a little portable spare PC. I just dunno.

You're right - MythTV/Freevo are scary unless you're a linux geek already.

I'm planning a PVR around an M10000, but I'll be using Media Portal - basically a PC port of the XBox Media Centre project. Since those low power VIA CPUs  haven't got much oomph I'll be using a hardware MPEG encoder (Hauppage WinPVR 350) to do the actual recording, since all the encoding is done by the card with little CPU overhead - you can get good performance for doing simultaneous record/playback, chasing live TV etc, even with a pants mobo.

Media portal is at http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net

Or I could just MAME a kettle or something. Burgertime in a George Foreman grill maybe.

Do you have a wintv pvr250 or pvr350?  You're right that the mpeg2 hardware encoding of pvrx50 does make a good match with the m10k... but I was a little dissapointed in the mpeg accellerator on the m10k as I thought it was a full blown mpeg decoder.  The TV out on the m10k is so-so.

Mediaportal is pretty cool, but I'd be surprised if it supported the pvr350's tv out/mpeg decoder...  (yet -- they've been busy over there)

GBPVR is free and worth checking out. 

For making linux and mythtv easier check out the bootable tailored to mythtv install distro knoppmyth

lol at the mini-itx george foreman grill =)

rampy

[Oddfeld]

Do you have a wintv pvr250 or pvr350?

[JoyMonkey]

GBPVR is free and worth checking out. 

Wow! Looks a lot like MythTV. I got Myth up and running before, but was using a POS avermedia tuner card and trying to get Boston's defunkt A/B cable system to work with it. I'll try Myth out again, but I'll definetly take a look at GBPVR.  2n's Thrifty PVR Guide looks like a simple setup.

We do have a spare George Foreman grill at home...

[rampy]

I have the 350, only because it was what I could pick up locally. The 250 is cheaper and is the same hardware encoder minus the decoder features (that aren't supported by anything anyway, unless you run the hacked old version of WinDVD or whatever it was supplied with the card). The 350 is well supported in media portal though, since its the card Frodo has (the lead developer).

Ok, let me clarify:  I meant that I'd be surprised if mediaportal support the pvr350's tv out, with ui overlay...  don't get me wrong, I like more FOSS alternatives and watch mediaportals progress with great interest, but want to make sure people know all the options and make the best decision for their setup/goals.

FWIW The pvr250 does not have the exact same encoder but functionally is pretty much the same.  You can (and do) use your pvr350 as a pvr250 by ignoring it's tv out functionality.  When I was playing with BeyondTV this is what I had to do (encode with pvr350, playback via m10k tv out)

The PVR350 TV out AND mpeg decoder AND UI overlay *is* supported in GBPVR, and SAGETV... (and mythtv/ivtv drivers)

My suggestion in general is to go with a pvr250 (or 150 if not in linux) and a separate video card for TV out.

BUT if you have the pvr350, which you do, it's a shame to not utilize it's mpeg decoding hardware and sharp/clear svideo out.  ESPECIALLY if one is on a pokey (comparatively) via epia mini-itx mobo... IMHO =)

Note: some people on certain chipsets/star/moon allignment have stability issues when forcing the UI through the pvr350's tvout, others don't ...

Also of note, if you'll forgive the self serving post... I'm running a giveaway over at byopvr of a SilverStone case  *shrug*

YMMV,

rampy

[JoyMonkey]

I just ordered a PVR-500mce. It's pretty hard to find detailed specs on the 500, but I get the impression it's just a 250 with two tuners built in. It doesn't have the nice TV-out like the 350 does it?

Looks like this thread is turning into a BYOPVR discussion!

[rampy]

I just ordered a PVR-500mce. It's pretty hard to find detailed specs on the 500, but I get the impression it's just a 250 with two tuners built in. It doesn't have the nice TV-out like the 350 does it?

Looks like this thread is turning into a BYOPVR discussion!

lol, isn't there a place already for that?     j/k

The 500 does not have a tv out.   The only thing I wonder is if you are still doing the mII10k thing, if you'd be asking a lot of the thing to record two shows at once (even if they are hardware encoded) AND playback.   I mean, it should be ok, it just might be cutting it close cpu overhead wise. 

*shrug*

rampy

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I just ordered a PVR-500mce.

...

I ordered an MII 10000 from thenerds.com, should have it next week.

JoyMonkey=SpendMonkey!

[JoyMonkey]

I just ordered a PVR-500mce.

...

I ordered an MII 10000 from thenerds.com, should have it next week.

JoyMonkey=SpendMonkey!     <----(Me) Jealous

Actually, the MII is a Christmas present I picked out for myself from Jen. She'll be getting a Bobbi Brown train case that she picked out herself. We've gotten so many wedding presents lately that it seems pointless buying each other more stuff that we don't really want.

The PVR card is the result of me working too much overtime (l'm on overtime as I write this). Be lucky if I find time to play with all my toys; I've been working way too much