I thought a TV would work with MAME??

[BLACK KNIGHT]

I've been helping a friend build a MAME cabinet.  He bought a 24" flat screen TV for it, we hooked it up to a PC via an Svideo cable.  The video card in the PC is a Geforce4 MX-440 and we're using Nview.  The resolution is set to 640x480 @ 32bit color and 60hz.  The problem is the colors are all funky in a LOT of games.  For example, Ms Pac-man looks fine, however in 10 Yard Fight, the players are in pink and white and the grass is dark green instead of light green.  X-men looks all washed out like a computer running in 16 colors or something.  Even Galaga the colors are screwed up, the big ships that should be slightly green and turn dark blue when they get hit once are purple and turn light blue when shot once. 

Any ideas on how to fix these weird color issues???

[StephenH]

Try adjusting the Tint, Contrast, Color, and Brightness controls on the TV.  If you know anyone with a color bar and greyscale bar, it might help you "Calibrate" the TV.

Also, make sure in Windows that the number of colors is set high enough in the windows control panel.

[BLACK KNIGHT]

We tried adjusting the tint,  contrast, color, and brightness on the TV, taking them to their extremes and nothing worked.  What's weird is in Windows everything look normal color wise it's in the MAME games that the colors flake out.  We noticed in Nview that comes with the geforce card there's a place to adjust the R, G, B and we played with that but it didn't seem to solve the problem either. 

I thought using a TV would be just like a monitor in that all the games would just play on it normal without having to adjust every MAME game for the TV screen.

[Trenchbroom]

Unfortunately, TV's are not that accurate when it comes to colors compared to a computer monitor.  Especially if you are using composite input to connect the TV to the card.

If the card and TV has S-Video output then connect them that way. You will find the colors to be better, but they still will not be as accurate as a computer (or arcade) monitor.

[Guybrush]

Black Knight,

My cabinet's using a 27" Sanyo flat from Wal-Mart and it looks astounding. I started out using S-Video like yourself and did have weird discolorations of some games, and that might be similar to what you're experiencing. (For instance, the chargeup blast from R-Type was green instead of blue.)

I ended up playing around with the default properties underneath the 'display' and 'advanced' tabs within Mame32 and one of them fixed it. I can't remember which one, but if you'd like I can let write down my settings and let you know. Granted I've moved to composite video as of the middle of last week, but I haven't modified any settings within Mame32 beyond changing the default resolution at which my games run at to 640x432.

Hope this helps,
Guybrush

[Tritoch84]

Granted I've moved to composite video as of the middle of last week, but I haven't modified any settings within Mame32 beyond changing the default resolution at which my games run at to 640x432.

Hope this helps,
Guybrush

Uh, why on earth would you switch from S-Video to Composite?

[BLACK KNIGHT]

He's currently using S-video, the composite looked even worse. 

Guybrush:  Yeah, if you could post those settings it'd probably be a big help!!!  Thanks.

[StephenH]

Try connecting a VCR, DVD Player, or even a TV Broadcast signal (Antenna, Cable, Satelite, etc) to that TV and see if you have the problem there.

[mahuti]

My tv looks great. With composite. With old low-res arcade games composite is more than enough to handle the signal... the less sharp & pixelated the better.

[Gunstar Hero]

Use a ATI Radeon graphics card.

The TV out on the GeForce cards suck. 

[maraxle]

The TV out on the GeForce cards suck. 

That seems to depend on the manufacturer rather than the chipset.  I've had good ones and bad ones.  Some manufacturers building stuff based on the GeForce chipset seem to use better components than others.

[Guybrush]

Forgive my huge slip of the tongue... I'm using COMPONENT not composite. I started out with S-video and moved up a big notch by getting the ATI HDTV adapter.

I'll post my settings for you later tonight, I have to go over to where the cabinet's being built to write them all down.

Guybrush

[Trenchbroom]

Ah yes...component is the best.   

Yes, don't forget you can tune the TV's settings, the card's settings and MAME's settings (for brightness and contrast).  You will have to tinker with all three of them to get the best possible results.

[Guybrush]

Here's the screenshots of my Mame32 default game option settings, the other tabs I have at the defaults. I do go back and forth with the 'use additional game artwork' setting in the misc tab on the properties of certain games like Ms. Pac Man, but that's just my preference to fill up dead space on the sides of the screen.

I also rehooked up the s-video and took some pictures with a camera as well as some with the component feed if anyone's interested in those.

Hope those screens help, and like Trenchbroom said, you'll need to play with your TV, video card, and Mame settings to get it the way you want. If you're interested in the settings I'm using for the TV, I can get those for you too, but those would only be good for a Sanyo DS27930...

Good luck,
Guybrush

[Tritoch84]

I'm HIGHLY interested in your S-Vid/Component pictures! post post post! I gotta use S-Vid (cost and ease of use) so I would like to see them Compared, the only ones I've seen on this board made S-Video look like a DOG, when I've seen it much better (On my system)and it looked a little....doctored, to me anyway. In anycase, I want a second example!

[BLACK KNIGHT]

Thanks guys especially Guybrush, as that fixed it!  It was the settings in MAME like gamma that were off and screwing up the games.  They look great now apparently!  Thanks a lot for the help!

[Guybrush]

You're welcome Black Knight, I know how frustrating it was for me when I was going through my ordeal.

Alright Tritoch84, I took about 15 or so pics of Ms. Pac Man and these were probably the clearest and best two of the bunch. I wasn't using a tripod but these two came out pretty great as a representation of what I was really looking at. These are undoctored, only resized and saved in jpeg compression. There is no extra glass or lexan/plexi in front of this, just the TV's glass. If you'd like, I could send you the originals but it wouldn't make that much of a difference visually, they're probably too large to post up here anyways. I can't imagine why anyone would take the time to skew any results of pictures unless the big debate over S-Video and Component is like PS2 and XBox.

Whatever you can use that works for you is the best option. I bet if you asked most anyone, they'd rather be playing these games using even Composite than nothing at all. I was using S-Video for the same reasons as yourself only until around a week ago.

The reason I moved up to Component was that I've already been using an ATI 8500DV card and it just so happens that one of the 'miracle' solutions to quality on here has been the mighty HD dongle. I only ended up spending about $60 for the upgrade so I was able to make the upgrade rather painlessly. I do understand that it'd make me hesitate though if I had to buy a video card AND the dongle just to upgrade to something that I only hear people talking about, and just like you, I kept searching for screenshots before I took the 'educated guess'.

If there's a big demand, I could take pictures of a bunch of different games using Composite, S-Video, & Component. That couldn't happen until after this weekend though as I'm hurrying every night to get this thing finished up for a party this weekend.

Guybrush

[Tritoch84]

Bravo! Bravo!

Thanks a bunch! This proves my points, at least, to myself.

Thanks again! I'm saving these.

[Mameotron]

Ah yes...component is the best.

[eyal8r]

Yes- can you guys post more on this for us? We are still talking about a TV w/ Component, right? Or, are you talking about an arcade monitor now?  Also- what video card do you need to run component?  Any other info is appreciated- especially before I go buy a new tv JUST for S-Video!!!
Thanks
D

[TeamTEOR]

I am a little frustrated as well right now with this whole s-video thing. I am hoping it is a GeForce TV Out problem. I just got a 27" Orion TV from Walmart, $177. I am connecting it to my GeForce4 Ti42000, the video output is ok, but at the top of th screen it is deformed, and as I scroll up and down webpages the shape of the video deforms as well. Atleast  I am able to use 800x600 32bit video a 60Hz. If I switch to a ATI Card will it be much better? I hope so, this TV looks great wih my DVD player & DSS Satalite.

[TeamTEOR]

Here are a few pics so you guys can see what I mean. This is a flat screen monitor and the picture is no where close to being straight. I have tried this with my laptop as well at 640x480 32bit (GeForce2Go 32mb AGP) with the same malformed results.

[Silver]

Assuming you are talking about the edges of your screen 'bowing' outwards/inwards on the sides, then changing your gfx card probably will not have much impact. (as trying your laptop may have indicated)

The reason it changes as you are scrolling is due to the amounts of brightness in each line changing - your tv is struggling to cope with the fluxuating voltage levels. Windows is very bad at this and you are viewing a "worst case" picture with all the 100% white backgrounds in IE etc....

I would recommend experiementing in changing background colours, or changing the brightness levels on your gfx card (mine can change it in colour/gamma settings). Also if you have an "overscan" option this may help by just putting the edges of the screen out of sight and disguising the problem.

I also expect that this will be almost unnoticeable in (mame) games as they do not have the large amounts of white like windows.

If you are talking about another "deformed" issue, please describe.

[TeamTEOR]

Yeah, I am talking about the bowing. Maybe I should return this TV and swap it out for a different one. The actual video quality is fine for TV use.  I bumped up the fonts in windows and from a distance with a wireless keyboard I can surf the internet without much of a problem. Is there any other way to correct the fluxuating voltage levels outside of a new TV?

[Silver]

Try looking for a service manual or instructions for your TV and look for some Pincushion or barrel controls. (Barrel distortion is the outward bowing, pincushion is inward bowing.) As you may be able to adjust the image....

I am not familiar with the brand of TV so I do not know if another of the same model will be any different - if everything else (ie normal tv/dvd viewing) looks fine then I guess not.

More expensive tv's tend to have more controls to balance out distortion (like almost all pc monitors). Maybe someone who has used Tv-out a lot more than I have can suggest how normal or not what you have is?

[TeamTEOR]

Do you think I should try to use Linux? I can try to use a small distro on a live cd to see how it goes.

[Tritoch84]

Uh, and using Linux will help solve your TV problem how? What the heck?

I'm no Linux hater, but how on earth does that relate to the problem at hand? Thats like fixing your the wipers on your car by changing the engine?!?!

Of course, I only ran Linux once on an older computer, so maybe I'm missing something?

[TeamTEOR]

Well, the reason I ask is because of what Silver said.

Quoted from Silver:
The reason it changes as you are scrolling is due to the amounts of brightness in each line changing - your tv is struggling to cope with the fluxuating voltage levels. Windows is very bad at this and you are viewing a "worst case" picture with all the 100% white backgrounds in IE etc....

If Windows is that bad, then maybe linux will be able to handle the hardware better.

[chrisherbert]

I think he means because Windows (and really, any operating system) uses a lot of white on-screen, it is more likely to show noticeable distortion than games.  Switching to Linux or anything else won't make any difference.  Even data monitors often have trouble with geometry when a lot of white is displayed.

Lowering the contrast in the video display properties will likely help the distortion, but will also dull the image.  As a previous poster said, you should investigate your overscan settings, so the distortion is at least less noticeable.