Best ways to speed stuff up?

[spongebue]

Hello,

What are the best ways to speed up Kymaera with MAME running Neo Geo ROMs?  I'm running Windows 2000 on an AMD-K6 box with 256MB of RAM, and that is good to run some older games, such as Ms. Pac Man and Donkey Kong, but Neo Geo games like Metal Slug are (pardon the pun) sluggish.  Normally this wouldn't be too terrible for me, but I am completely addicted to the Metal Slug series and would love to play them on a homemade MAME cab (which I am working on, and have a pic of the to be redone cab here) since that game is one of the main reasons I'm building a cab in the first place.  I am considering downgrading to Windows 98 or even plain old DOS, though the latter is kind of iffy and more of a last resort.  I would also prefer to keep Kymaera, since it looks awesome, but will be willing to switch to another frone-end if needed.  Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,
spongebue

[Flinkly]

everything works well on my comp, so i don't stay ahead on comp requirements, but for one, windows 2000 isn't really popular as an operating system anywhere, i'd suggest windows 98 or xp.  other than that, just try to trim down your cab computer of all the programs you don't need, possibly start from a fresh install, and dont have disk drives, these slow down comps for all sorts of reasons, and you can hook them up or unhook them whenever you need them, so no worries about updating.  also, i'm not too keen on amd, so someone else is gonna have to help you with that.  good luck with metal slug, thats my main reason for my cab too.

[spongebue]

I could tell by your avatar that you like Metal Slug 

Anyway, I am using a fresh install (just got the hard drive today, actually) and don't use any floopy drives.  I will probably use Windows 98, since there's no way this will run XP and Metal Slug.  Also, I can test out programs to see if it runs better in plain old DOS this way.  I'll downgrade sometime today or tomorrow.

[paigeoliver]

Use mame .55, if metal slug can run full speed in mame on your computer then that version will do it. 

[spongebue]

Use mame .55, if metal slug can run full speed in mame on your computer then that version will do it.

[paigeoliver]

Um, yes. Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga have been in mame since the VERY beginning.

[LordDamo]

I dont know too much about AMD's, what is the rouch equilivant speed of your K6 in Mhz? Im running Win2k on a PIII 850 with 64 mb Nvida video card, 256 Mb ram,  Kymaera as my front end. Metal Slug runs just fine.

When I was building my system (cabinet ALMOST done) - I was testing the hardware with a tiny little 4mb video card. Metal Slug rans as slow as a wet week. Once I got my new card from a certain auction site, it ran just fine. I tested under dos 7.10, and win98.

Try upgrading your video card. Hope this helps.

[paigeoliver]

Try upgrading your video card. Hope this helps.

That is bad advice. You must have had other issues. Mame is not video card dependent at all. I have done framerate tests with a 1 MB card, a 16 MB card and a 128 MB card and gotten the same framerate with all of them.

Upgrading your video card to run a 2D application is a waste of time and money. I have been building and running mame for years and years and believe me, it doesn't matter what video card you are using.

[paigeoliver]

Basically, if you aren't getting full speed in a game you want (and it isn't background tasks, or lack of memory), then the only real solution is to start downgrading mame versions until you do get full speed.

[SirPeale]

That is bad advice. You must have had other issues. Mame is not video card dependent at all. I have done framerate tests with a 1 MB card, a 16 MB card and a 128 MB card and gotten the same framerate with all of them.

Upgrading your video card to run a 2D application is a waste of time and money. I have been building and running mame for years and years and believe me, it doesn't matter what video card you are using.

I've got to disagree with you there, Paige.  I've seen plenty of slowdown with POS video cards.

HOWEVER: you don't need a modern card with super-de-dooper fancy 3D graphic capability.  Something like an ATI Rage will work just fine.

[paigeoliver]

How, why and where are you seeing it? What games? What mame versions? What cards? I have just never seen this issue, not even with cruddy 1MB shared onboard video on an old celeron 400.

[dabone]

Yes some video cards can push 2d better than others, It really makes a difference with old cpus.Does that mean you need a 9800pro?? NO, but it means you sould toss that old diamond stealth 64 card. 


The K6-2 is a original Pentinum class cpu, that uses external cpu cache on the motherboard, this slows down the cpu quite a bit because modern cpus have a direct non bus path to level 2 cache.

A k6-2 550mhz can barely keep up with a P2-300.

The best thing for you to run the games you want full speed is to get a p2-400 or above. They can usually be found cheaply at used computer stores or thru the wantads.


Later,
dabone

[spongebue]

whoa, the replies in this thread doubled overnight.  Thanks.  Now, to say what I need to say in the order of whatever I think of first:

I should have mentioned that it is an AMD K-6 450MHz.  There is 4MB of video RAM, I believe.  When I asked about Ms. Pac Man and Galaga working, I meant the classic games in general.  I'll probably ask for a new mobo for Christmas, and then use all the other parts from the computer I am using.  I'm not in any hurry to get my cab done, and can use the time to focus on some of the cab detail.

Thanks,
spongebue

[Buddabing]

Hello,

What are the best ways to speed up Kymaera with MAME running Neo Geo ROMs?

[spongebue]

Hello,

What are the best ways to speed up Kymaera with MAME running Neo Geo ROMs?  I'm running Windows 2000 on an AMD-K6 box with 256MB of RAM, and that is good to run some older games, such as Ms. Pac Man and Donkey Kong, but Neo Geo games like Metal Slug are (pardon the pun) sluggish.  Normally this wouldn't be too terrible for me, but I am completely addicted to the Metal Slug series and would love to play them on a homemade MAME cab (which I am working on, and have a pic of the to be redone cab here) since that game is one of the main reasons I'm building a cab in the first place.  I am considering downgrading to Windows 98 or even plain old DOS, though the latter is kind of iffy and more of a last resort.  I would also prefer to keep Kymaera, since it looks awesome, but will be willing to switch to another frone-end if needed.  Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks,
spongebue

Also, use the K6 build of MAME. You'll have to compile your own.

any reason I couldn't use the version at Zophar's Domain?

[SirPeale]

How, why and where are you seeing it? What games? What mame versions? What cards? I have just never seen this issue, not even with cruddy 1MB shared onboard video on an old celeron 400.

Believe it or not, it was on my current system (which is an Athlon XP 2400+) with a series of video cards I was testing.  I forget which one it was, I'll have to pull them later.  It was slower than heck, though.  Everything was displaying very slowly.

[Buddabing]

any reason I couldn't use the version at Zophar's Domain?

No. I wasn't aware there was a k6 binary around anywhere.

[Trenchbroom]

You might not get the speed you want with MAME on a K6 machine.  Unless it is imperative that you stay w/ MAME (for frontend reasons for example), go try Kawaks:

http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/

On my old Celeron 400 box a few years ago I would have to frameskip 8 to get "full" speed with MAME on any Neo Geo games.  But Kawaks had fullspeed w/ no frameskip.

[spongebue]

You might not get the speed you want with MAME on a K6 machine.  Unless it is imperative that you stay w/ MAME (for frontend reasons for example), go try Kawaks:

http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/

On my old Celeron 400 box a few years ago I would have to frameskip 8 to get "full" speed with MAME on any Neo Geo games.  But Kawaks had fullspeed w/ no frameskip.

hmmm... interesting... is this a mame clone/port or a whole new emulator?  Or, to be more specific, should my existing MAME ROMs pack work with it?

[paigeoliver]

Mame .55 runs Neo Geo full speed on a Celeron 400. I know this FOR SURE, as I have "shipped" 4 different systems running a Celeron 400 and Mame .55 and the neo geo games played full speed on all of them.

Mame .55 is about 500-650 percent faster with the neo geo games then the current version is.

[JustMichael]

spongebue, try setting Mame to frameskip 0 NOT auto.  This helps a lot of games.

[Tritoch84]

hmmm... interesting... is this a mame clone/port or a whole new emulator?  Or, to be more specific, should my existing MAME ROMs pack work with it?

No, it's a new emulator, and runs neogeo/CPS2 games, and runs really fast. If you dont' want to downgrade to a lower version of mame, then this is what you want, but be warned, it doesn't have a front end, since it has it's own GUI, which works fine, but in a cab......

If I'm on my computer , I prefer Kawaks over mame, it loads fast, loads games faster, and runs them with more video and edge enhancing dithers than MAME will.

I should get a lesser version of mame to run my stuff, but I can't find a list of what games worked with what version.

Oh yeah, and you use the MAME dumps with kawaks.  (But I think I even got it to run an older RAGEX dump) It will also run the rainbow and hacked boards of Street Fighter 2.

[tk_42_1]

Mame .55 is nice for the speed.  But how do you get rid of the damn Disclaimer/Game info screens.

I take it .55 doesn't support this and if so what is the first version that does and is it worth the speed difference/hassle of hitting an extra button.

BTW, my system is a PII400 with 192M of mem running 98SE.

[spongebue]

I've tried Kawaks (still on 2000, but I tried Windows 98 a bit) and it didn't do anything when I started it. 

[spongebue]

hope bumps aren't too hated around here, but I still can't get kawaks to open.  I was thinking of trying other versions, but I can only find 1.50.  Also, I've been trying to use neoragex, but that can't find my roms, even though I set the directories right.

thanks

[KHAN]

neorage uses other rom dumps than mame and kawaks...
you can use a rom fix program to convert your mame roms into neorage roms...if you don't want to do that you can also use a
neorage base mame32 version which only runs neogeo games...
www.mamechannel.it

[spongebue]

well, I downloaded a new one that I assumed was for neoragex (it was in the neo geo section of the site, not mame) and the result?  Well, the difference between my computer (AMD64 3000+, 1GB RAM in Windows 2000) and this computer was barely noticable, if it was even there 

I haven't been this happy about the project since I got the cab for free 

Thanks a lot guys

spongebue

[JoeB]

Mame .55 runs Neo Geo full speed on a Celeron 400. I know this FOR SURE, as I have "shipped" 4 different systems running a Celeron 400 and Mame .55 and the neo geo games played full speed on all of them.

Mame .55 is about 500-650 percent faster with the neo geo games then the current version is.

Why does it run it that much faster???  What about the actual audio/video quality?  Is it the same?

[Tiger-Heli]

Mame .55 is nice for the speed.  But how do you get rid of the damn Disclaimer/Game info screens.

I take it .55 doesn't support this and if so what is the first version that does and is it worth the speed difference/hassle of hitting an extra button.

BTW, my system is a PII400 with 192M of mem running 98SE.

This might be a little old now, but - 0.63 was the first official version to support this.

To do it unofficially, see here or the patch files on SirPoonga's site, or NoNameMame, if it went back that far.

[spongebue]

I'm sorry to bring this thread up again 

Anyway, I just got a gift card for a christmas present from work.  I figured that I'd use it on a new mobo.  I thought ]this board would be good.  If I used a celeron processor, would 700MHz run the Metal Slug games well, as in full speed?  If I'm going to pay for a whole new board, I'm hoping it will be good and worth it.

thanks,
spongebue

[elvis]

CPU 101:

1) The AMD K6 II and III series of processors had notoriously shite FPU (Floating Point Units).

[paigeoliver]

Mame .55 runs Neo Geo full speed on a Celeron 400. I know this FOR SURE, as I have "shipped" 4 different systems running a Celeron 400 and Mame .55 and the neo geo games played full speed on all of them.

Mame .55 is about 500-650 percent faster with the neo geo games then the current version is.

Why does it run it that much faster???  What about the actual audio/video quality?  Is it the same?

The games are identical.

Each new mame version supports new games and fixes old bugs.

Lets pretend that mame emulates 2 chips. Chicken and monkey.

Mame version 1 emulates Starfox which uses the Chicken and Monkey chips.
Starfox is very fast.

Mame version 2 adds Goblincoaster. Goblin coaster uses the chicken chip and the monkey chip. But  Goblincoaster used the chicken chip in a different way than Starfox did. So the developer has to make the emulation of the chicken chip more complicated in order to support both Starfox and Goblincoaster.

Starfox is not as fast as it used to be.
Goblincoaster now runs.

Mame version 3 adds monsterslash which uses all 3 chips. Developer has to update the monkey chip emulation to get monsterslash to work.

Starfox is once again slower than before.
Goblincoaster is also slower, and now has a bug from the updated monkey chip.
Monsterslash now runs.

Mame version 4 updates the monkey chip emulation to fix the bug introduced in the last version.

Starfox is slower
Goblincoaster is slower
Monsterslash is slower

Get the idea? Good, now stretch it out over 80 releases.