Need browser help - Mozilla Suite or Firefox

[Chemixtry]

I'm getting tired of being on the defensive with my msn explorer and ready for a change.  Need some guidence as to what I should get. The mozilla suite or just firefox. For people that already have it, how happy are you with it?

[DrewKaree]

I'm getting tired of being on the defensive with my msn explorer and ready for a change.  Need some guidence as to what I should get. The mozilla suite or just firefox. For people that already have it, how happy are you with it?

Do you currently use Outlook Express as your e-mail reader?  There may be other reasons for Thunderbird, but they don't apply to me, so I skipped the suite, and use Firefox.  I haven't upgraded to 1. owhateverversiontheiron, but when installing it on other's computers, it's VERY nice, and I'll probably be updating to that version sometime this week.

I am SO friggen happy with it, it's not even funny!  I HATE the security loopholes in IE so much, I MAKE people use it whenever possible.  The tabbed browsing, for instance, is something that, once you've used it for any length of time (say, a day   you'll wonder how why this wasn't done before.  Extensions, themes and download manager are just the cherry on top of the gravy on top of the ice cream!  Sure opera did it first, but Mozilla did it FREE!    The built-in search bar is way cool as well, and the integrated pop-up blocker works so well, you'll soon forget it's even there!

I like it's security features so much that whenever I'm requested to help someone fix their computer, the first thing I do is start downloading Firefox onto their computer, install it, and instantly change the icon to IE's icon.  Then I rename it to IE.  In case their ISP requires them to use it, I leave the IE icon in the programs list, but take all traces of it off the desktop, and quick launch bar.  Usually I'm told "man, thanks for updating my Internet Explorer, this version's SO much nicer".  

That'll only work for friends with broadband, though....and you'll wanna remove their "I've gotta click here to log onto the net" icon.  Most folks don't realize they're ALWAYS on, whether they click that silly icon or not.  

Read the features the suite includes.  If you don't need them or don't know what they are, don't download it.  If you need similar capabilities or want to try it, download it.  You're only out time and drive space, and can always just install Firefox later.

[Grasshopper]

I'm getting tired of being on the defensive with my msn explorer and ready for a change.  Need some guidence as to what I should get. The mozilla suite or just firefox. For people that already have it, how happy are you with it?

Do you currently use Outlook Express as your e-mail reader?  There may be other reasons for Thunderbird, but they don't apply to me, so I skipped the suite, and use Firefox.  I haven't upgraded to 1. owhateverversiontheiron, but when installing it on other's computers, it's VERY nice, and I'll probably be updating to that version sometime this week.

I am SO friggen happy with it, it's not even funny!  I HATE the security loopholes in IE so much, I MAKE people use it whenever possible.  The tabbed browsing, for instance, is something that, once you've used it for any length of time (say, a day   you'll wonder how why this wasn't done before.  Extensions, themes and download manager are just the cherry on top of the gravy on top of the ice cream!  Sure opera did it first, but Mozilla did it FREE!    The built-in search bar is way cool as well, and the integrated pop-up blocker works so well, you'll soon forget it's even there!

I like it's security features so much that whenever I'm requested to help someone fix their computer, the first thing I do is start downloading Firefox onto their computer, install it, and instantly change the icon to IE's icon.  Then I rename it to IE.  In case their ISP requires them to use it, I leave the IE icon in the programs list, but take all traces of it off the desktop, and quick launch bar.  Usually I'm told "man, thanks for updating my Internet Explorer, this version's SO much nicer".  

That'll only work for friends with broadband, though....and you'll wanna remove their "I've gotta click here to log onto the net" icon.  Most folks don't realize they're ALWAYS on, whether they click that silly icon or not.  

Read the features the suite includes.  If you don't need them or don't know what they are, don't download it.  If you need similar capabilities or want to try it, download it.  You're only out time and drive space, and can always just install Firefox later.

At last something we can agree on!

[DrewKaree]

At last something we can agree on!

 

I don't take those other opinions you read about outside those threads, so you're a good egg in my book!

[Chemixtry]

The only reason I thought about Mozilla suite is that it has irc built in. I dont use outlook express because i've heard it can cause a lot of problems. Mostly I just need the browser. Finally I can remove msn messager and all that crap!

[DrewKaree]

The only reason I thought about Mozilla suite is that it has irc built in. I dont use outlook express because i've heard it can cause a lot of problems. Mostly I just need the browser. Finally I can remove msn messager and all that crap!

Depends on your ISP's requirements.  While your ISP may say that it's required for their program to work, that's not technically true.  What they require are some .dll's and various other files that CAN be gotten off of your Windows disc.  

I can't tell you for certain that you can make it work that way, but if you know for certain that you don't need IE, you CAN remove IE from your PC.  From reading your post, it seems you're asking about the messenger service in XP.  

If I'm correct that you're using XP, go to blackviper and read how best to tweak your XP installation.  He's WAY more experienced on that.

If you're referring to Win98, or Internet Explorer, you can go to www.98lite.net and download "IEradicator" to remove IE and all it's traces from your computer.

Oh, and FWIW, it may be nice to tie IRC into your browser, but I'm betting the IRC client you already use will better suit your needs.  If that's the only reason, it's not worth the overhead the suite adds, unless you're like me and want to test things out just to see what they're like.  Firefox is probably the way to go, skp the suite, keep your current IRC client.

[Chemixtry]

I am using XP. I dont use any of the instant messaging and it has always bothered me that I can seem to get rid of msn messagener. When I try yo get rid of it msn (my ISP thru verizon) says that it is required and wont even let me turn it off. Yeah I am happy with my irc client so theres no incentive to change that. I

f I dont remove IE but dont use it, will I still be vulnerable even though I would be using firefox? I feel like I'm constantly being on the defensive. It doesnt help that my wife isnt the most tech savvy and doesnt always pay attention to what she is clicking on. The other day she was looking for some Halloween clip art and downloaded a virus and a ton of spyware. What ever it was it even turned off my ant-virus software. It took me a couple of hours to clean it up.

[DrewKaree]

I can seem to get rid of msn messagener. When I try yo get rid of it msn (my ISP thru verizon) says that it is required and wont even let me turn it off. Yeah I am happy with my irc client so theres no incentive to change that.

Ok, leave it on there, just delete any references to it, if you can.  You'll still have a reference in the "programs" menu, so you can always access it if you need to.   Remember to check out black viper...lemme get a link for ya...ok Click here for link to Black Viper

Read up on everything that's running on your PC, and set it up.

If I dont remove IE but dont use it, will I still be vulnerable even though I would be using firefox?

No, you'll be browsing through IE, although to be on the safe side, go into IE and disable all ActiveX, Java, and...something else, I can't remember...disable those options.  You ARE constantly on the defensive in this day and age!  That's funny about the wife, but I also know it's not THAT funny!  Check THIS thread for what I do for that situation and what he's going through

Also, not that it's a terrible thing to have AV software, but in that thread I explain why I hate 'em...doesn't matter, I've tried the major ones and some not so major ones...Norton, McAfee, and most recently, Panda....I tried 'em just to see, and they all slow me down to a level I'm not appreciative of.  

Others may disagree, but you now can be the judge.  Your AV software STILL didn't protect you, did it?  Image your drive and back up your image.  I have been hit by 2 viruses and numerous spy/adware programs.  Never a problem that couldn't be fixed in less than 15 minutes by DriveImage.  

Oh, and do what I did, change the Firefox icon to IE's, that way the unsuspecting will just think it's a new version of IE when they click on it....make sure to rename it too!  Only YOU will be the wiser!

[shmokes]

Drew,

You put gravy on your ice cream?


....Yeah, everything that Drew said except that last bit about antivirus software which is the absolute stupidest advice I've ever heard in my life aside from his advice he goes on and on about in other threads regarding who you should vote for.

Vote for Kerry and for the love of god run good antivirus software that automatically downloads updates for itself itself daily.  

[shmokes]

Oh yeah, and if you do need an email client I'll vouch for Thunderbird over Outlook Express.  Migrating from OE to Thunderbird is a breeze.  Thunderbird, however, has a built-in beysian filtering spam detector that's mad-accurate.  Liked tabbed browsing, once you've used it for even a short period of time you wonder how you ever did without it.

Also, like Firefox, it's expandable and you can get all kinds of extensions from a calendar to an RSS reader to a dictionary look-up, and so on.

And for god's sake, run anti-virus software.

[J_K_M_A_N]

So I had to trythis out but I want the address bar to use autocomplete. Is there a way to turn it on? Also, is it possible to make new windows open in a new tab instead of a new window? I do like the tab idea instead of several windows open at once.

J_K_M_A_N

[shmokes]

My address bar in firefox autocompletes, er....automatically.  Middle-clicking a link will open it in a new tab rather than browsing to it in the current window or opening it in a new window.  Pressing CTRL+T will open a new blank tab in the current window.

[Crazy Cooter]

So is there much that Firefox can't do?  How many bells-n-whistles does it have weighing it down?

For me, I run Proxomitron as a proxy, IE, and AVG Anti-virus.  Then I check sporadically with spybot & Hijack this.  Works well on my computer but I know what I'm doing.  Doesn't work so well on the girlfriends: "I downloaded this screensaver and it doesn't do anything..."

[shmokes]

I'd probably call a tie or give IE a slight edge in sheer page loading speed over Firefox.  But the organizational improvements, such as tabbed browsing, and vast security improvements, coupled with a capable pop-up blocker and download manager more than make up for this.

Tabbed browsing saves far more time and energy than any inconsequential speed advantage IE has over Firefox.

Firefox doesn't seem bogged down at all.  It feels very nimble and light and has a much cleaner interface than IE.

[DrewKaree]

Drew,

You put gravy on your ice cream?

nah, it's a line from the morning show I listen to...it's like, the best of the best of the best.

except that last bit about antivirus software which is the absolute stupidest advice I've ever heard

I know, it's another "semantics" exercise for you, but I HAVE pointed out that "Also, not that it's a terrible thing to have AV software, but in that thread I explain why I hate 'em."  I DON'T say you shouldn't have them, I explain why I don't/won't use them, and you even help in explaining for me, as does Cooter.

Firstly, more people are in Cooter's position, which is

Works well on my computer but I know what I'm doing.  Doesn't work so well on the girlfriends: "I downloaded this screensaver and it doesn't do anything..."

meaning you can't stop someone else from screwing up your computer.

Secondly, you say

run good antivirus software that automatically downloads updates for itself itself daily.

If it has to download updates, then it's always working to keep up with the virus writers.  Therefore, unless it's always downloading updates, it's not as current as it needs to be.

Thirdly, even the most widely used AV's, Norton & McAfee, DO NOT catch all CURRENT viruses, which means the possibility exists that even while having the most current virus definitions and being the most updated it could POSSIBLY be, you can still be infected by a virus written that those programs don't even recognize, AND even if they did, MAY NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!

While you feel this is the absolute stupidest thing I could tell someone, my results speak for themselves.  A simple fix, if I'm ever infected, a simple fix if someone else using my computer infects it.  If my advice is the absolute stupidest thing, please, give us all your stone-cold guaranteed-to-work solution using your anti-virus scanner that doesn't implement some form of drive imaging.

Oh, and give me solid reasoning that will demonstrate that my solution is "the absolute stupidest thing".  

You haven't done anything other than call my idea crap and state the position of an anti-virus software company, whereas I've given reasons behind my idea and can demonstrate the validity of my method.

I can't believe you argue so eloquently in "those other threads" and don't feel the need to do so here while painting me as some kook who's off his rocker.  While it may be true, there IS a method to my madness.

[cdbrown]

I use mozilla firefox 0.9 on all my pc's and anyones that I setup.  Isn't a resource hog like IE and I like the fact of opening up new pages as a TAB within the one application instead of opening links in new window

[DrewKaree]

Oh, and I forgot yet one more flaw in the anti-virus software out there.  Here, from the guy who had a problem...explains quite the huge flaw, and reiterates Cooter's issue

It doesnt help that my wife isnt the most tech savvy and doesnt always pay attention to what she is clicking on...What ever it was it even turned off my ant-virus software.

I DO NOT believe you should just drop all your AV software.  I believe you should test my method, and see what's easier....download every day, maybe still get a virus.  If you get a virus, connect to the net (if you still can), search for the fix (if one has been developed), download the fix (hopefully you won't need to pay for the fix) install the fix, and oh, by the way, what is "the fix" installing on your computer as well?

What is my method?  Image my drive at a "base point".  Kind of like a system restore point in XP.  Burn the base point image to CD or some other removeable media that DriveImage or Ghost supports.  Image my drive whenever I feel like it, such as prior to installing software I wish to test.

What do I do if I have a problem or if I'm infected with a virus?  Simply fire up the imaging program, and restore the image I wish.  No downloading and installing a program that I have no idea will work or not, other than the author says it will.  Ever hear of someone putting out a supposed fix that actually further infected your computer or added some spyware/adware onto your computer?  I have.  Dynamite way to remove a virus, and add another problem.

Why not use a system restore point?  Ever hear of a virus deleting/corrupting them?  I have.  

My method removes the image (or system restore point) from the computer, and even in the event that I can't boot to my OS, I can still use a basic version (rescue diskettes) to get my system back to whatever state I choose.

How long will this take?  15 minutes or less.  Headaches looking for "the fix"?  Non-existent.  

Countless computers set up this way, YEARS of being able to quickly get back up and running, and you seem to think it's "the absolute stupidest thing" I could tell someone.  

I have NEVER told anyone to not run anti-virus programs.  I've stated how/what I do, why I do it, and reasons not to use anti-virus software.  

I expected more from you, shmokes.

[Mameotron]

I'll chime in for Mozilla, too.  Pop-up blocker is gold, and once I started using tabbed browsing I can't go back.  If only I could convince them at work...

[J_K_M_A_N]

My address bar in firefox autocompletes, er....automatically.  

Does it autocomplete or just drop down the combo box with all the choices that match? Mine does NOT autocomplete like I would like it to. I did like the middle click for new tab though. That is a very nice feature. If it would autocomplete, I would use it all the time. I always type my urls in for some reason. I don't really like to use the mouse full time. I like to mix it up

J_K_M_A_N

[DrewKaree]

I'll chime in for Mozilla, too.  Pop-up blocker is gold, and once I started using tabbed browsing I can't go back.  If only I could convince them at work...

Can you access their computers?  Do what I did and install it and change the icon and delete all desktop references to it.

I PROMISE 99% of the people will think they updated IE and won't realize the difference, and you can also get an extension to rename the title bar.

Does it autocomplete or just drop down the combo box with all the choices that match? Mine does NOT autocomplete like I would like it to. I did like the middle click for new tab though. That is a very nice feature. If it would autocomplete, I would use it all the time. I always type my urls in for some reason. I don't really like to use the mouse full time. I like to mix it up

J_K_M_A_N

Check out Mozilla's extensions.  I believe I saw something relating to this feature in there.  I'll have to take a closer look when I get home.

[shmokes]

I'm sorry drew.  I should have said "worst advice ever".  "Stupidest" sounds mean.  And I am exagerating when I say worst or stupidest.

Still, it's a bad idea.

Imaging your drive is a great idea, but, here are some problems with using that method to the exclusion of anti-virus software:

1- It takes a long time so one is unlikely to do it more than once a week, if even once a month.  Many people do very important work, or transfer very important pictures from a digital camera, or get really far in the latest Balder's Gate in the space of a day or two or a week or two.  For many people, having to wipe their hard drive clean and revert back to a month old, week old, or even day old resore point can be traumatic.

2- Oftentimes a person does not realize that there is a virus eating away at their files, let's say it's a virus that corrupts JPG's and MP3's like one I got once while not running antivirus software (I had just upgraded from ME to XP and my Norton wasn't compatible with XP).  When I finally installed Norton about a week later it identified the virus.  Then I checked my picture and mp3 collections and they were devastated - about a third of them had been destroyed.  I lost hundreds of files, many of which (personal pictures) are not replaceable.  With a backup I could have recovered many of these files, but I still would have lost anything that was put on the computer since my last backup.  And without the antivirus software who knows when I would have noticed that I had a virus?  When it had destroyed ALL my files?  

3- This is related to #2, but many viruses, especially once that have a timer and are set to go off on a certain date, might go undetected for a year.  What if you have a virus that continues to infect other files filling up your hard drive at a rate of, say, 2 GB per week.  So a year, and 52 backups later you realize that you've had a virus screwing with you, filling up your hard drive, but for how long?  You restore last weeks image.  Virus is still there.  Restore last month's, virus is still there, etc.  Anti-virus software would have told you that you had an infection (if not prevented the infection altogether.

4-  Many problems caused by viruses are indistinguishable from possible symptoms of hardware failure.  Maybe your computer keeps freezing up completely.  Maybe it's spontaneously rebooting.  Maybe the mouse quits working, but everything else is fine.  There are dozens of possibilities where it makes sense to immediately run a full virus-scan to rule out that possibility before you start replacing parts.

5-  My VirusScanner catches viruses from files being downloaded from peer-to-peer filesharing networks on a very regular basis, long before the file is finished downloading and becomes and actual threat.  

It's an essential tool.

p.s. Who's this thin-skinned guy and what have you done with the real Drew?

[Crazy Cooter]

Can the download manager be disabled?  I absolutely hate those things.  I'm on cable in an "old persons" neighborhood, so I have no use for it.  I swear I have this entire line myself.

Holy crap! heheh, I just tested it at http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/Bandwidth_meter/7004-7254_16-0.html?tag=zdfd.dir3.speed

2513.9 kbps
2531 kbps
2498.5 kbps

Did it 3 times, cleared cache each run.  Like I said, it's quick.  At 5:40pm with about a dozen IE windows open (that's how I browse).

[DrewKaree]

Can the download manager be disabled?  I absolutely hate those things.  I'm on cable in an "old persons" neighborhood, so I have no use for it.  I swear I have this entire line myself.

it may be able to be disabled with an extension, but if I'm reading you right, you hate (and I agree with this point) the download manager window popping up showing your progress.  It's just a simple checkbox to NOT show that download manager, and after that, it'll be just like downloading something with IE.

If you can think of it, someone else has probably written, or is in the process of, writing an extension for it.  I wanted to be able to tell the time on my PC without having to drag the mouse to the bottom, there's an extension that puts time/date next to the browsers "searching" icon!

Man, there's way too much crap to tell about JUST how cool Firefox is, you've REALLY got to go to www.mozilla.org and download it and check out the "add-ins" while you're there.

[DrewKaree]

I'm sorry drew.  I should have said "worst advice ever".  "Stupidest" sounds mean.  And I am exagerating when I say worst or stupidest.

apology accepted :p

p.s. Who's this thin-skinned guy and what have you done with the real Drew?

I live in Wisconsin.  That makes you a Packer fan (or a dope, if you root for someone else  ).  Please note the time of my replies.  I enjoy football more than anything in the world.  The confluence of events served to make for quite the mood.  

Male PMS, thy name is Sports Fan.

Do you have one big "C" drive, or do you partition your hard drives?

I've some research to do, as you have experience with events that I just don't find, and I have SOME replies right now, but need to check some other stuff out.

[shmokes]

I make a separate system partition, but still use the documents and settings folders because Windows makes it so difficult and dangerous to change the location of those system folders.  Plus, I have multiple users, some of whom are not very computer savy, so telling them to browse to a different location to save their stuff is an exercise in futility.

Plus, only an amateur virus would be unable to copy itself to other partitions and drives on your computer.  Hell, look at the blaster and sasser worms.  Not only will they propegate themselves across every drive and partition on your computer, they will propagate themseves across every drive and partition across your network and the across the internet without any user action required.

If for no other reason, you should have antivirus software for informational purposes.  Afterall, maybe you come home and realize your computer is infected with Sasser or Blaster.  So you say, "Well, this looks like virus-like activity, I'll restore from backup."  So you restore from backup, but since you can't possibly identify the virus on your own, you don't know how you got it.  In this case you restore your computer but don't realize that you've got vulnerabilities that need to be patched, so in short order your computer becomes infected again.  The real-time scanner doesn't always catch every virus on its way in (though it does a damn good job), but the combination of the real-time virus protection, with manually scanning any files specifically downloaded from questionable sources such as p2p networks is practically fool-proof.  

And if you DO manage to get an infection in spite of your vigilence, at least the antivirus software will let you know what virus you have.  And we all know what GI Joe's lesson is regarding that.

[Grasshopper]

At last something we can agree on!

 

I don't take those other opinions you read about outside those threads, so you're a good egg in my book!

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship!

[DrewKaree]

At last something we can agree on!

 



I don't take those other opinions you read about outside those threads, so you're a good egg in my book!

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship!

OK, we can do the "man-hug" thing, but if you make a move to kiss me, I'll sock you right in your "kisser"  

 

[Floyd10]

I am content with firefox, but I havent tried the suite

[Sasquatch!]

My opinion: Mozilla suite = BLOAT.  I adore Firefox.

Regarding antivirus: AVG works great for a personal machine.  Very small memory footprint, and it does what it's supposed to do - monitor and catch viruses.  Coming back to my loathing of software "bloat", I hate personal packages like McAffee and Norton that want to monitor every stupid aspect of your computer.  AVG is awesome in this regard.

(Although much love for Norton Corporate, but that's a whole other ball o' wax.)

[Mameotron]

Can you access their computers?  Do what I did and install it and change the icon and delete all desktop references to it.

I'd LOVE to do that.  It's like me renaming the Novell server NT.  It's funny to hear people say, our NT server hasn't gone down in months!

Apparently there used to be a problem at my company with people installing too much spyware and filesharing stuff, so they laid down the law.  No unauthorized software is to be installed, period.

to quote Rampy,
*shrug*