Remakes... most wanted

[Lilwolf]

If someone was going to make an updated game that works well in a cabinet.  What would it be?

Well, I'm finally going to get some time for my frontend.  I started optimizing some code and killed a few things... but aside from that..  

starting to program at home again started making me think about maybe starting to write a game that would work well in my arcade machine.  

So I am writing a 3d engine.  And thought that I might write a 3d version of SmashTV / Robotron / Total Carnage... IE throw a ton of characters at someone with two joysticks!

So, what kind of classic games do you think a shareware type remake should be done?

[Howard_Casto]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in 3d.... nuff said...

[SirPoonga]

Hey, if you make a good 3D engine let me know, if you read my post in the latest 3D Arcade post you will know why....

[Magnet_Eye]

First off, have you seen these cool games: http://www.mking.com/ ?

A couple cool games.one is kinda like Tempest, another galaga/vertical scroller type.

Anyway, I would think something older than TMNT, come on. How about BERZERK? Maybe in a 3D maze, FPS style or something? Or how about a really cool 3D JOUST? Hmmm, that sounds fun.

Other picks: Jungle Hunt, Moon Patrol, Zaxxon, Defender, etc.

I would say TRON, but there's a new TRON game in the works that looks killer.  

[Howard_Casto]

Anyway, I would think something older than TMNT, come on. How about BERZERK? Maybe in a 3D maze, FPS style or something? Or how about a really cool 3D JOUST? Hmmm, that sounds fun.

Other picks: Jungle Hunt, Moon Patrol, Zaxxon, Defender, etc.

I would say TRON, but there's a new TRON game in the works that looks killer.  

Well the trouble with old games and 3d is that it doesn't work.  Most, if not all of the commercial retrogame to 3d conversions have, well,  sucked --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--.  Think about it... they made a 3d millipede, it sucked.  They made a 3d pacman.. it was ok but sorta lame.  They made a 3d frogger which actually plays pretty good, but it doesn't remind me of the original frogger at all save the first level.  I believe there is already a 3d jousting game, although it's not joust.  But reagardless of that... the really really old games don't have enough gameplay to be translated to 3d.  Think about it... all of jousts levels looked alike and played alike.... that could get real old on a brand new game.  Same with moon patrol... it's a very small game and would be hard to expand upon.  They have a 3d jungle hunt.... it's called tarzan and is by disney.  I'm not quite sure how you could make defender 3d.  The way the gameplay is setup it almost has to stay in that camera view.  If not then you would have to change the entire gameplay mechanics and then it wouldn't be defender anymore.  If you were referring to keeping the camera angle but rendering the ships in 3d, they have several defender clones out there that already do this.

As for a fps... bah!!!  The modern pc is plagued with crappy fps games.  They have been ran into the ground.  Let id take care of them as they seem to be the only people to know how to do it right.


TMNT has gameplay mechanics that would translate well to 3d most of the other games you mentioned do not.  Now if you are referring to the theme of the game then perhaps, but to translate any of those games to 3d wuld totally destroy the gameplay mechanics.  

Why tmnt?  Well first off the ninja turtles rule, everyone likes them (unless your an old stick in the mudd.) Secondly it's multi player which is always good for a 3d game and would make the translation more popular.  Also the way tmnt was setup would translate very well to 3d.  You just make a long rectangular polygon for the bounding mox and tilt it slightly forward to give you that 2 3/4 feel, but this time it would be in true 3d.  The hit detection is extremely simple in this game as are the physics.  A generic 3d game engine could be used to make this game with very little modification... simply make a fixed camera and your good to go.  What would make it special would be the characters and the old-school gameplay.  

[SirPoonga]

As for a fps... bah!!!  The modern pc is plagued with crappy fps games.  They have been ran into the ground.  Let id take care of them as they seem to be the only people to know how to do it right.  

Quake's good for straightup deathmatch.  Half-life is  good for teamplay, unreal is just cool, especially assault mode...

[Generic Eric]

well i have a few ideas for remakes, but not in 3d.

I would like to see a remake of Donkey Kong in the same styling as Donkey Kong Country was done.  With an updated version of Mario of course.  Maybe throw Luigi in as a second player.  Definitally could update the fireballs too.  If anyone has seen something like that, let me know.

Robotron sounds cool.
I am a fan of the Terminator 2 shooter

[Lilwolf]

I don't want to redo a game... but more try to take the gameplay of some games and look at that.

Mainly... because 3d remakes always suck.. .why?  they try to change the game and forgot to look at what was fun about the original.

exceptions

Xevious 3D and Strider3d.  Both great games that have the original games at heart.

I'm considering something like berzerk/robotron/smashtv but might move more towards total carnage... why?  I love two joystick games... and it would be pretty easy to create something that could be expanded easily.

but of course, I started optimizing my engine... and well... destroyed a few things... Moved the optimization from the objects to the entire scene (so two objects that are next to each other, and always will be would be optimized together)... anyway... got a snag...sigh

[Dave_K.]

There has already been a bad attempt at 3d robotron (called Robotron X).  The problem (as Howard pointed out) is moving to a 3D perspective totally changes the dynamics from the original game (thats when the suck factor kicks in).  There have been some good remakes like Midway's Spy Hunter for the PS2, but its basically a different game (just using themes from the original).  They are also going to release a new Defender 3D soon.

What I'd like to see is essentially the same game perspective and play as the original but with updated graphics and effects.  Treasure's Silpheed (for the PS2) is a perfect example of taking a 2d shooter, and upgrading everything to 3d (but keeping the game play in 2d).  The remake of "Contra" is another good example.

I think everyone has their moments of "I'm going to write a game" but then realize after several weeks of hard work that it takes a team of people a long time to produce anything good (even back then!).  Personally I'd stick to remakes in the retro look of the originals (all 2d and sprites).  Its much simpler and actually doable by one person.  You can even write it in Java rathr than assembler  If you can create your own "classic" then I think you could move on to 3d versions.

-Dave

[Dave_K.]

Oh, and to answer the original question "of most wanted remake", definately a new robotron....give me two joysticks and I'll take on the world!

-Dave

[Howard_Casto]

Oh, and to answer the original question "of most wanted remake", definately a new robotron....give me two joysticks and I'll take on the world!

-Dave

If you are going to go that route it would have to be total carnage or smash tv instead.  I don't know of a game engine fast enough to make a 3d game run as fast as robotron.  Also robotrons graphics are so horrible you can't tell what you are looking at anyway, so even if you started out making a robotron remake it would probably end up looking like smash tv anyway as they are both similar except the graphics.  


As for a whole crew to make the game.... it isn't necessarily true.  If you do a half and half game (background 2d with 3d characters or vice versa) then it's fairly managable if you make it kind of small.  I used to make quake 2 models so I'll volunteer my services if someone would be willing to animate the characters I create as I really suck at that part.  For a smashtv game it should be fairly simple... and animation of the enemy running, shooting and getting blown up in a few different ways for randomness sake.  Player animations would be farily hard though as you need each of those things, per weapon, per direction.

[)p(]

HC is right getting the speed of Robotron and up to date graphics at 60 fps...not easy at all...
I don't agree about the graphics...the abstract stereotype robots, then colorcylcing and especially the awesome particle effects creates some lovely halucinating eyecandy when played in a darkly lit room  

here is an example I saw linked at the llamasoft board of a pretty good Robotronesque game...

http://koti.mbnet.fi/temper/crimsonland/

[Grasshopper]

Yes, I basically agree with the previous comments.

If you convert a 2D game to 3D then the 3D game may or may not be any good, however what is certain is that it won't bear any resemblance to the original.

A good example is Duke Nuken. The original was a great 2D platformer. The 3D version is ok but is nothing like its 2D namesake.

It also works the other way. Someone made a pointless 2D version of Tomb Raider for one of the handhelds. Again it was nothing like the original.

The graphics of modern 3D games are awesome. However apart from a few notable exceptions the gameplay is often lacking.

I don't say this out of nostalgia, 3D is obviously the future. However we're in a transition phase at the moment. One of the problems is that all of the current widely available input methods were really designed for controlling objects in 2D. Only when good affordable 3D interfaces become widely available (e.g. VR helmets, 3D motion detectors etc) will 3D games really come into their own.

[Lilwolf]

If I do a 3d robotron/smash tv type game..  the graphics would really be up to the end user.  Why?  I planning on writing how the models will move... what they will do, ect.  But allow the models to change.

As for speed?  60fps is VERY easy for robotron and I think there are more bad guys on the screen for smashtv and totalcarnage then robotron!  

Also, if I go don't go with a skeletal system (not planning on it right away), but have 3d models that are like sprites (using one, then using another that is very close to one...) ect... for motion... ie arms don't bend...  Then I can optimize the whole thing to the point that for every bad guy on the screen it's just about 5 opengl calls... (4 for the translation for location, and one to draw the character).   If you do a skeletel system,  and have it optimized (not easy at alll... working on that now)... it ends up being about 20 opengl calls... and without any optimization or dumb optimizations (only optimizing the obvious stuff) then your talking 300+ easy.


Anyway, now I'm also considering writing a shoot'm up for the lightgun.  Maybe a 3d version of hogans alley or something

[SirPoonga]

Liwolf,

checkout gametutorials.com and gdmag.com.

[SNAAAKE]

CADILLACS AND DINOSAURS..

i know the game is not that popular but the game is the coolest of its type..

i wish there was a sequel with lots of extra add ons.