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Author Topic: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3  (Read 5088 times)

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MameMaster!

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Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« on: September 27, 2004, 11:30:03 am »
Greetz all!...
Can anyone get the Sega games; and Namco games up and running at full speed w/sound in MAME?.....

I have ton's of games like Bloody Roar, Street Fighter EX etc. that I simply can't get up and running at full speed/full frames on my Athlon 1.8 ghz eMachine...using MAME 86. I can lower the frame rate and cut sound to get decent speed....but that's no fun.

Any suggestions?  

Personally this isn't a big deal to me as I have my Dreamcast and XBox connected to my cab....but playing the "real deal" on my cab is always more fun!

MameMaster!   ???
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

Lilwolf

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 01:32:00 pm »
3 - 3.4 gig needed.  

Wait for Zinc 1.0

MameMaster!

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2004, 01:42:11 pm »
3 - 3.4 gig needed.  

Wait for Zinc 1.0

...thanks!...I had a feeling that would be the case. Sigh.

MameMaster!  8)
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rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2004, 06:51:55 am »
3 - 3.4 gig needed.  

Wait for Zinc 1.0

...thanks!...I had a feeling that would be the case. Sigh.

MameMaster!  8)

got me thinking...as only got 1.8Mhz Duron system...

i have playstation cds of those games.

would i get better performance using the playstation emulator espxe instead?

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2004, 08:43:28 am »
Yes.  Almost anything that uses 3d hardware will be faster.

those systems where slow, but with great video cards.  Perfect for 3d hardware hle.

Zinc is GREAT though.  Download it and try it.

Then epsxe does great for most people... But the I don't personally like console emulators for my arcade machine in that the coins / start don't always match up.  

rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2004, 09:19:07 am »
Yes.  Almost anything that uses 3d hardware will be faster.

those systems where slow, but with great video cards.  Perfect for 3d hardware hle.

Zinc is GREAT though.  Download it and try it.

Then epsxe does great for most people... But the I don't personally like console emulators for my arcade machine in that the coins / start don't always match up.  

I have played espxe on my desktop machine which is AMD Athlon 2.5+ with 9600XT video card - and it plays well (in fact had to throttle fps back to 60!)

Not sure what performance will be like on my cab which is AMD Duron 1.8 with ArcadeVGA. Will have to try it and see.

PSX games using the PSX controllers shoulder buttons will be a pain on a cab with joy + 6 buttons

Yes, will give Zinc ago as well - it would be nice to have authentic cab effect.

but then again sometimes the console versions have extra game modes.


MameMaster!

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2004, 09:23:03 am »
....it's funny that Zinc does work perfectly (no slowdown); but I can't get these games to run correctly in Mame....well, OK they run, but again I have to delete frames or shut the sound making them no fun (at least for me).

I'm hoping that Zinc 1.0 will alleviate these issues as I'm dying to play Battle NY (I think that's the title-- it's the Sega Gun game based in NYC) at full speed!

Overall....personally, I still play my classic games WAY more than any of these more "modern 3D games". Consoles simply  are just better for that.

 8) MameMaster!
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2004, 10:36:12 am »
I'm hoping that Zinc 1.0 will alleviate these issues

what issues are there with current version of Zinc?

Anything that i should be aware of that might affect my decision to download and try it?

MameMaster!

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2004, 10:38:20 am »
I'm hoping that Zinc 1.0 will alleviate these issues

what issues are there with current version of Zinc?

Anything that i should be aware of that might affect my decision to download and try it?

...as far as I know there aren't any issues. It's just that Zinc 1.0 will support more games than the present version. At least that's how I understand it.
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2004, 10:57:47 am »
I'm hoping that Zinc 1.0 will alleviate these issues

what issues are there with current version of Zinc?

Anything that i should be aware of that might affect my decision to download and try it?

...as far as I know there aren't any issues. It's just that Zinc 1.0 will support more games than the present version. At least that's how I understand it.

is Zinc graphics performance ok with an ArcadeVGA card?

does it use 3d acceleration or software rendering?

MameMaster!

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2004, 12:20:46 pm »
I'm hoping that Zinc 1.0 will alleviate these issues

what issues are there with current version of Zinc?

Anything that i should be aware of that might affect my decision to download and try it?

...as far as I know there aren't any issues. It's just that Zinc 1.0 will support more games than the present version. At least that's how I understand it.

is Zinc graphics performance ok with an ArcadeVGA card?

does it use 3d acceleration or software rendering?

I don't know the exact answers to those questions personally but here's the Zinc faq page which covers some related topics--

http://www.emuhype.com/index.phtml?s=zinc&ss=faq
and definitely read this...
http://www.mameworld.net/easyemu/zincguide.htm


Good Luck!  :D
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

Howard_Casto

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2004, 03:55:53 pm »
....it's funny that Zinc does work perfectly (no slowdown); but I can't get these games to run correctly in Mame....well, OK they run, but again I have to delete frames or shut the sound making them no fun (at least for me).

How is this funny exactly?  Mame strives for accuracy, zinc does not.  Zinc uses hardware acceleration, mame does not.  It would only be "funny" if the opposite were happening.

rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2004, 04:50:48 pm »
....it's funny that Zinc does work perfectly (no slowdown); but I can't get these games to run correctly in Mame....well, OK they run, but again I have to delete frames or shut the sound making them no fun (at least for me).

How is this funny exactly?  Mame strives for accuracy, zinc does not.  Zinc uses hardware acceleration, mame does not.  It would only be "funny" if the opposite were happening.

surely its more accurate to actually be able to play the game on reasonable level of hardware

MameMaster!

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2004, 04:56:21 pm »
....it's funny that Zinc does work perfectly (no slowdown); but I can't get these games to run correctly in Mame....well, OK they run, but again I have to delete frames or shut the sound making them no fun (at least for me).

How is this funny exactly?  Mame strives for accuracy, zinc does not.  Zinc uses hardware acceleration, mame does not.  It would only be "funny" if the opposite were happening.

surely its more accurate to actually be able to play the game on reasonable level of hardware


....I agree!!!! (picture me now cowering in fear from Howard's wrath  :-[ )
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

Gunstar Hero

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2004, 05:54:15 pm »
Maybe I can field this one.

The idea of MAME is to have the program emulate the arcade hardware, not to adapt it to run on your PC. Remember, your PC is several times more powerful than almost every arcade machine ever made! MAME is at it's highest level an archival project. ZINc just wants to run some games!

As for ePSXe, I use it to run the Namco fighters since ZINc and MAME can't, and it runs great and mapped to my CP really easily. Give it a shot!

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2004, 05:55:52 pm »
ZiNc cheats basically, MAME does not (at least, for the most part).

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2004, 05:59:04 pm »
As for Gunblade NY, ZINc can't help you there.

ZINc only plays the Namco and Capcom games that run on the PSX based arcade hardware, System 11 I believe.

Gunblade is a Sega Model 1 machine. There is another emu for Sega Model 1 and 2 games, but it's name eludes me and I could never get it running anyways.

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2004, 06:24:10 pm »
rchadd  the PSX emulator works great for those games.  I have them on my cab and I dont have any problems with speed at all.

Im running a Athlon XP 2.6 with 512 ddr ram.
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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2004, 10:16:49 pm »

surely its more accurate to actually be able to play the game on reasonable level of hardware

No offense but that's probably the dumbest comment I've heard all week. Fast does NOT equal accurate.  Emulation takes horsepower... a TON of horsepower, usually up to 10 times the amount the original game ran on. Taking into account the hardware requirements of the old zn board and the fact that they were specially designed to run the games, *IF* the arcade machine ran on a pc style mb it would have took a pentium class processor to do so.  It's being emulated, so multiply that by 10.  Simple math.  

Zn boards used their own special hardware rendering chip.  Zinc ignores this chip and converts the calls to direct-x/opengl/whatever, potentially making the game render completely different from what the game actually looked like.  Mame does the proper, accurate, thing and emulates this custom hardware accelerator completely in software.  

I like zinc, but to say it is more accurate than mame is laughable to say the least.  

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2004, 10:22:37 pm »
Agrees with Howard but...

I still play the hell out of Zinc on my cab,  Just that blasted 2nd player 6 button..

I cant wait for 1.0 to come out.
"A true warrior enters the arena with all his powers at the ready." ~ Gouki

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2004, 11:13:16 pm »
AH HA!

So it is the emulator with P2 button 6 on SFEX2.

I knew it. =)

Howard_Casto

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2004, 03:02:15 am »
Agrees with Howard but...

I still play the hell out of Zinc on my cab,  Just that blasted 2nd player 6 button..

I cant wait for 1.0 to come out.


agreed... i don't dislike zinc... i just understand about it's inaccuracies and why mame can't be as fast as it on current hardware.  I just don't appreciate people complaining that some games in mame are slow when there is a perfectly playable alternate emu available for said games.  :)

rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2004, 07:30:20 am »
Just that blasted 2nd player 6 button..

whats the button problem? please elabarate


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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2004, 10:15:56 am »
whats the button problem? please elabarate

The button doesn't work.

rchadd

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2004, 12:17:37 pm »
whats the button problem? please elabarate

The button doesn't work.

so better make sure you always play as player 1 then eh?  ;D

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2005, 05:33:48 am »
I'm curious to know, has this been fixed yet?

I was thinking of breaking my "mame only" cabinet rule to add in zinc tonight, though don't know about that if this isn't fixed.
"My cab is nearly finished, no really I swear!"

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2005, 10:12:56 pm »

surely its more accurate to actually be able to play the game on reasonable level of hardware

No offense but that's probably the dumbest comment I've heard all week. Fast does NOT equal accurate.

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Re:Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2005, 04:10:18 pm »
Seriously speaking, the sheer petulance shown here by folks demanding that free software be written better/faster so that they can play illegal software is downright pathetic.

have PSX disks = legal
« Last Edit: April 02, 2005, 04:17:33 pm by rchadd »

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2005, 10:22:38 pm »

Quote
It's fairly obvious that there are a number of folks on these forums who have absolutely no comprehension of both the technical and philosophical aspects of emulation.

I know people who love wine, or so they claim. They take a sip after swirling it under their noses, swish it around in their mouthes, and then just spit it out.

Me? I just drink it.

Same wine, different level of appreciation.

Wine snobs claim that their level is better, despite the spitoons full of half-drank wine and backwash. So...

You folks who like to bang around in C++ and look down upon us little people for reaping the benefits of emulation, just keep wringing your hands. We'll be over here drinking our wine and playing our games.

APf

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2005, 11:25:21 pm »
I've got no problems with folks playing games and enjoying them.  I do have serious problems with petulant brats complaining that free software isn't good enough when they don't do a damned thing to contribute back to the development process.

I don't for a minute think that programmers are some how a cut above the rest.  And thank you very much for putting those words in my mouth, I might add.

You don't have to be a coder to help.  There's all sorts of things that non-technical folks can do to help development projects.  Bug testing/reporting (ie: playing the games) , artwork, document writing or general evangelism all help.  Even sending $5 to the dumping project once a year might save some rare game that could well go out of existence shortly.  Whining on some forum that "surely it should be faster" doesn't help anyone anywhere ever, especially when just hacking it up to make it faster stops it being emulation, and starts it being "simulation", which is NOT what the project is about at all.

And if at the end of the day people don't want to contribute, then that's their right.  But then they give up the right to complain about it not being good enough.

I'm not asking anyone to go through millions of lines of code, or learn some new programming language.  All I'm asking is that folks pause for 5 minutes and try to understand what MAME is about philosophically , before complaining that it isn't good enough technically.

The MAME FAQ has all the answers.  I'm only recycling what's said there.  I suggest you all read it start to finish.

For the impatient, I recommend the following in particular:

T11. How can I get <insert game here> to run faster?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#t11

M13. When will MAME use Direct3D/OpenGL to emulate <insert insane 3D system here>?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m13

M15. Why is MAME so slow? These games ran at less than 10 MHz, and my CPU is 500 MHz!
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m15

M16. Why don't the developers put more hacks in MAME?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m16

M17. Is MAME a simulator or an emulator?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m17

And of course for those who actually want to give back to a software project they use FOR FREE:
M19. Can I contribute anything to the MAME project?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m19

I think that just about covers everything said in this thread, and anything else you could care to add on the topic.  Straight from the mouths (fingers) of the MAME devs.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2005, 11:28:58 pm by elvis »

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2005, 12:16:09 am »
Quote
I don't for a minute think that programmers are some how a cut above the rest.  And thank you very much for putting those words in my mouth, I might add.

Come now, where did I say that? All I did was tell an anecdote. Quite a clever one, too, if I do say so myself.  :P

Quote
But then they give up the right to complain about it not being good enough.

Ah, yes. Sorry, I forgot about that addendum tacked on to the Bill of Rights at the last second by that scoundrel John Adams. Here it is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Unless you are a ROM kiddie. In that case, shaddup and sit down.

I always thought that newbies had an exemption. I hate those constitutional literalists.

I don't contribute to the "scene" as I find the whole hierarchy of the subculture dispicable. But as an "out" I don't complain either. But then again, I have been watching emulation since its infancy and I understand that I am not owed anything. However, something tells me that some guy wondering why NFL Blitz doesn't work hasn't been around when MAME first burst on to the scene. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt, and spare the poor guy your pontifications about philosophies and your ideas as to what MAME is all about. I am sure he will come to understand it without you getting all worked up over it.

This isn't the official MAME forum, nor is it Retrogames. One thing that is so great about this forum is that the members are relatively n00b friendly. So, Elvis, why don't we keep it that way, and leave the n00b beatdowns to those oh-so-clever geniuses on the MAME and Retrogames forums?

Thank you.

APf

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2005, 03:20:47 am »
Constitutional literalists.... what the hell?  For starters, I'm assuming whatever the heck it is you're referring to is bound to the USA only, and doesn't apply to me (holy cow, I live outside the USA!).

Secondly, I live by a pretty simple set of morals guided by common sense.  I'm sure most here would agree with me that if someone isn't going to offer a solution to a problem and simply want a whinge, then they can bugger off, especially when they decide to criticise a project they don't understand.

And thirdly, you strike me as the kind of person who ISN'T a whinger... so why the heck you're arguing with me is at this stage totally unknown to me?  You said it yourself: you don't complain when things don't work, and are happy to sit quietly on the sidelines and reap the benefits of emulation.  Well my friend, that's A-OK in my books.  I only wish there where more like you.

My grievances are aimed squarely at the lazy ones who haven't taken the 5 minutes to read through the MAME FAQ, yet take 10 minutes to complain about it on a completely different forum!  You'd think folks would research first, and open their mouths second.  Sadly it seems that self-education is a lost art these days, and for some reason the world is supposed to back off and tolerate folks who can't help themselves.  Sorry mate, but I don't tolerate fools nor whingers.

Tip of the day for all concerned: Read the FAQ first, post questions second.  You just can't argue with that sort of common sense logic.

rchadd

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2005, 06:12:46 am »
elvis maybe if you optimized your C++ code it would perform better

Magnet_Eye

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2005, 09:02:30 am »
Why are you making a big deal out of nothing elvis?

Mamemaster (look at the first post) did not "complain" at all. You're just jumping down the guys throat or trying to start something with people on the board. He isn't some "brat" complaining about the emulation. He had a valid question, and wanted a few simple answers or suggestions. Now you have basically hijacked the thread because you think he's some noobie brat complaining about the speed of mame emuklation or whatever it is you THINK he was talking about.

Lay off.  :P
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Fuzzguitar

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2005, 10:01:52 am »
 ???

I hope elvis doesn't think I was complaining!

I was merely asking about the status of the sixth button, which I'm still interested to know btw.

Whether it works or not though I'd never complain and I doubt many people here would either. I bet like me most of us are appreciative of the emulators and the folk behind them each time we play our cabs - or even walk past them! I live with what we have and wait patiently for possible improvements if they are needed.

From what I can tell the vast majority of regulars here are much the same. We know without coders we wouldn't have games to play. I don't think the initial shock of discovering mame ever really leaves one. From that moment on we're grateful for it!

If you ask me it's mainly the younger people frequenting rom site boards, console emu boards etc who are demanding, impatient and
ungrateful.
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APFelon

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2005, 11:07:09 am »
Quote
He isn't some "brat" complaining about the emulation.

...and I'd like to add it wouldn't be a big deal if he were. But I don't think I have seen anyone get too bent out of shape if game X doesn't work (on this forum, at least). The conversations usually go something like this:

"Hi, Ridge Racer runs really bad in MAME. How can I fix it?"

"Well, you need a hyper fast processor, and the driver for it isn't finished."

"Oh. Well, that's a shame. Thanks anyway!"

Face it: The documentation, FAQ, and all of the other documents associated with MAME have grown to be quite large. And dare I  say that they are a bit daunting to someone who has just discovered MAME.

I do agree that users of ANY software of moderate complexity should read the documentation or punch their questions into Google before they seek answers on a forum. But the allure of immediacy is a bit strong; hence, we get guys asking questions that are clearly written in the FAQ or answered in some other forum.

Frankly, I don't think that typing "RTFM" is all that helpful, and it does nothing to solve the problem (and due to human nature, the problem is unsolvable. People will ALWAYS ask "stupid" questions when they don't feel like rifling through pages upon pages of documentation). In all honesty, I don't think that hostility is a way to greet perceived ignorance or ingratitude.

So, let's have another analogy. You are in a strange town in a different country, and you are lost. You can't understand the way the subway/train system works, and you want to get back to your hotel. You ask someone to help you find your destination, he notices the map in your hand and replies "read your flippin' map" and walks away. Or worse, they begin some diatribe about "you stupid foreigners" and still give you no useful information.

I don't want to be that guy. When I am helpful, I feel productive. When I feel productive, I feel happier. When I help someone with a question, stupid or not, I like to think I have set someone on the proper path to solve their problem. And in turn, I hope that they will return this kindness to someone else who has the same problem somewhere down the line. And this, as simple as this is, makes me happier.

I am aware of the floods of e-mails emu devs get, and I understand that floods of this sort can grow to be a bit tiring. And in turn this will make their responses terse and curt. Again, this is human nature.

But in the meanwhile, I have taken refuge in this little corner of the Internet, where the people are generally friendly and helpful, and I feel at home (as home as one can feel on an electronic forum anyway). I shall continue to field questions no matter their level of "stupidity", and I openly encourage others to do the same.

As an aside-- you are the second person in the last few months to react like you did when I didn't realize that they didn't live in the United States. One way to clarify your nationality is to enter your location in your user profile, or use your nation's flag as your avatar.

Take care.

APf

TalkingOctopus

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2005, 03:07:00 pm »

I was merely asking about the status of the sixth button, which I'm still interested to know btw.


Since no one else will answer, I guess I will try. I believe the button has been fixed in a release that occured earlier this year and is now operational. 

SadGamerGeek

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2005, 03:17:11 pm »
I'm so glad to see the last few posts (Magnet_Eye, Fuzzguitar

elvis

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Re: Q- Re, games like Tekken 3
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2005, 05:19:23 pm »
Why are you making a big deal out of nothing elvis?

I think there's a few folk here making a big deal about nothing.

I'm only asking that people go read a few FAQ's first, and post questions second.  Even posting something like "I've read the FAQ and it says X, but could someone please explain why it is so" would be a step up the evolutionary chain, and certainly not have gotten the responses above.

It seems it offends some people to be told to "RTFM" once in a while, but it sounds like even the best of us forget that someone has already take then time and effort to answer the frequent questions.  Once again, everything I've said here in this thread can be found in the MAME FAQ (with handy links above for the impatient).  It's not new,  it's not revolutionary, it's not mindblowingly amazing, and it's certainly not warranting of this many posts worth of discussion about grumpy buggers like me who tell folks to RTFM once in a while.

And honestly, I think we've wasted enough of everyone's time arguing over it.  Hows about letting my grouchyness drop (and yes, that's directed at myself as much as the rest of you), and getting back on topic?  I know I'm over it.