gamecube stick, real analog

[usea]

I am extremely interested in an arcade-style controller for gamecube. I've looked at mas system's pro stick, modeverything.com, and a bunch of the retail products etc. they seem to be either only digital, or use duration-simulated analog.

I play super smash bros melee competitively. the tournament scene is pretty big. I would love to use an arcade controller as some inputs would be much easier, but it has to have good analog stick functionality, and enough buttons (12. well, technically only 9, but because no layout will be specific to smash bros 12 are needed). is there even quality analog stick hardware out there?

I am very willing to pay for something custom ($100+). if the mas pro stick had a real analog stick, I would buy it immediately as the layout and buttons are very good (though I would like to switch Z with either X or Y). I know other ssbm players would be interested in buying one as well.

I don't know a lot about sticks, so any info on the subject would be appreciated. thank you

[Dave_K.]

Interfacing arcade analog controls with console analog controls is still considered a holy gail of sorts.   But alas, nobody seems very interested in developing it as its a very niche market.  Its also quite expensive.  There are a lot of trade-offs to consider.  I've researched it for awhile, tried a couple expierements, and still don't have anything concrete working.

[usea]

that's really unfortunate

I'm almost to the point where I'm willing to just saw off the left half of my gamecube controller (analog stick) and like uh..glue it to the side of an arcade controller, mapping the other buttons to arcade buttons. (if this is possible)

personally I love the cube analog stick and I have no issues with it. my main problem is that when I use the gamecube controller, some inputs are difficult using just my thumb (moving from B to Y and hitting both rapidly within like 3-5 frames), and the L/R buttons take too much effort to depress all the way. using an arcade layout with Y, A, B, R, Z and 4 cstick buttons would make a lot of the technical stuff 500% easier.

[Infinity]

I too am a competitive SSBM player and having a high-quality arcade stick would literally revolutionize the metagame right now, its something top players would definitely pay $100+ for. Even a fairly low-quality stick would be greatly appreciated.

[Dave_K.]

I'm not familiar with SSBM but if its a brawler, then why do you need analog movement?

So I'm guessing you can't change the game config to use the d-pad for movement?

[usea]

nope, you can't. it requires analog. you perform different moves depending on the amount you press in a direction, plus a button. also the speed at which you move it to a direction is important sometimes.

a "smash" is rapidly moving the stick from neutral to all the way to one of the 4 main directions. the whole concept behind the game is this smash movement.

a "tilt" is either slowly moving the stick to one of the 4 directions, or moving it half way to a direction. a basic mechanic and very necessary.

some smashes and tilts can be "angled" up or down, if you press an in-between direction accordingly.

you walk/run at different speeds depending on how far and quickly you press the stick (very important)

[simplygriff]

I have 2 mas prosticks.  Now that you say it I haven't tried them on SSBM(have the game, just never tried it).  I only really use them in Soul Calibur 2.  They also have PS2 support so I'm using them on my MAME Mahcine with USB adapters.  

Is there anything I could test out for you to see if the simulated analog would work for you?
-G

[usea]

hm, well it's hard to describe if you're not intimately familiar with the game but I'll try.

pick marth (or if you don't have him unlocked, captain falcon).

like I said before, you have different speeds of running depending on how far/fast you move the stick. jam the stick right and left rapidly. marth/cfalcon should dash right and left quickly, without any delay in turning around. he should be leaned into the run, and it will make a little whoosh sound each time you dash left or right. you should be able to notice a difference if you run straight for a while, then try to turn. they will stop and slide a bit when turning around. if you do it rapidly back and forth they should turn around instantly.

another thing to try would be tilt attacks. with captain falcon press forward and A. does he attack with his elbow or his leg? the way it's supposed to work is if you jam the stick all the way forward and hit A at the same time, he uses his elbow. but if you just move it slowly forward and then hit A, he uses his whole leg. are both attacks possible?

if you press up on the stick, does the character jump immediately? or do you have to hold it there for a bit?

thank you very much.

[MameMaster!]

...uhh...why not XArcade?

$99. buck with a Gamecube adaptor.

MameMaster!  

[simplygriff]

hm, well it's hard to describe if you're not intimately familiar with the game but I'll try.

pick marth (or if you don't have him unlocked, captain falcon).

like I said before, you have different speeds of running depending on how far/fast you move the stick. jam the stick right and left rapidly. marth/cfalcon should dash right and left quickly, without any delay in turning around. he should be leaned into the run, and it will make a little whoosh sound each time you dash left or right. you should be able to notice a difference if you run straight for a while, then try to turn. they will stop and slide a bit when turning around. if you do it rapidly back and forth they should turn around instantly.

another thing to try would be tilt attacks. with captain falcon press forward and A. does he attack with his elbow or his leg? the way it's supposed to work is if you jam the stick all the way forward and hit A at the same time, he uses his elbow. but if you just move it slowly forward and then hit A, he uses his whole leg. are both attacks possible?

if you press up on the stick, does the character jump immediately? or do you have to hold it there for a bit?

thank you very much.

I'll try to check this as soon as I can.  I just got the cube hooked back up this Am from moving.  I'm interested to see if this works too.  I bought  this stick like I said for SC2 but with hopes to be able to play SSBM and other analog cube games.  I just never tried it.
-G

[usea]

thanks griff! very much appreciated.

...uhh...why not XArcade?

$99. buck with a Gamecube adaptor.

mamemaster the x-arcade not only has simulated analog, but no buttons for the c-stick (you have to switch the primary stick over to cstick..which would be retarded for smash bros). I went over that earlier. and griff is going to test simulated analog is smash bros for me. I am almost positive that it won't work how it needs to though.

[spiffyshoes]

HAPP makes an analog stick.  In theory it would be possible to hook it up to a gamecube controller but I haven't seen anyone willing to fork out the $130 for the joystick to try it.

[Dave_K.]

HAPP makes an analog stick.  In theory it would be possible to hook it up to a gamecube controller but I haven't seen anyone willing to fork out the $130 for the joystick to try it.

This is one of the expensive tradeoff's I mentioned above.  The more practical route is a happs 49-way joystick, but interfacing to a console it still in the expiremental stages.  

[Bgnome]

has anyone actually tried the analog circuit for the 49-way?

[usea]

the 49-way looks like it would work just fine as the stick for this (after reading up on them), though I am sure still much work would be needed to adapt it to gamecube.

when at happ's site a few days ago to look at their analog sticks (an email from modeverything.com informed me of them) I guess I missed the 49-way ones. not too expensive.

[Dave_K.]

has anyone actually tried the analog circuit for the 49-way?

I wired it up on a breadboard, and tried it on cheap 3rd party ps2 stick.  It didn't work, but more than likely because the analog pads on that pad were 3.3v and not 5v.  I'm not sure what the power requirements are of the circuit (if you can power off the pad or not).  Anyway, I have an h-series pad I can try it on, but haven't had the time lately.

[simplygriff]

I apologize.  I've been trying to get settled in my new house and haven't had time to try this out yet.  I will do so as soon as I find the box of Cube & Ps2 games.
-G

[MrBond]

thanks griff! very much appreciated.

...uhh...why not XArcade?

$99. buck with a Gamecube adaptor.

mamemaster the x-arcade not only has simulated analog, but no buttons for the c-stick (you have to switch the primary stick over to cstick..which would be retarded for smash bros). I went over that earlier. and griff is going to test simulated analog is smash bros for me. I am almost positive that it won't work how it needs to though.

Little off topic...but the c-stick isn't really 'required' to play SSBM...if your thinking about going this route

[usea]

don't mind off-topic

actually, there are many useful things you can do with the cstick that are impossible/impractical otherwise.

you can use the analog stick to DI (direction influence. changes your trajectory when getting hit) or CC (crouch cancel) while using the cstick to attack. you can do a forward aerial while moving backwards, etc. you can automatically do roll/sidestep/jump on wakeup by holding cstick and L/R.

additionally, up and down aerials with the cstick are much easier than using the analog stick because there is no chance of you accidentlally double jumping or fast falling.


but no, it's not really required to play. but neither is an arcade stick just makes it easier/more effective

[simplygriff]

hm, well it's hard to describe if you're not intimately familiar with the game but I'll try.

pick marth (or if you don't have him unlocked, captain falcon).

like I said before, you have different speeds of running depending on how far/fast you move the stick. jam the stick right and left rapidly. marth/cfalcon should dash right and left quickly, without any delay in turning around. he should be leaned into the run, and it will make a little whoosh sound each time you dash left or right. you should be able to notice a difference if you run straight for a while, then try to turn. they will stop and slide a bit when turning around. if you do it rapidly back and forth they should turn around instantly.

another thing to try would be tilt attacks. with captain falcon press forward and A. does he attack with his elbow or his leg? the way it's supposed to work is if you jam the stick all the way forward and hit A at the same time, he uses his elbow. but if you just move it slowly forward and then hit A, he uses his whole leg. are both attacks possible?

if you press up on the stick, does the character jump immediately? or do you have to hold it there for a bit?

thank you very much.

Alright Boss...
I found my games and tried this out this AM.

No Go.   I tried the dashing with Marth and He just won't do it.  I tried it with my wavebird to make sure I knew what he was supposed to be doing and with the MAS stick he just won't do it.  You do have varying degrees of walking but no dashing no matter how hard you move the stick.  After this didn't work I didn't really try anything else becasue I knew the stick wouldn't be good enough.    SO there you have it.  Thanks for giving me a simple test so I could see for my own knowledge as well.
-G

[usea]

griff thanks so much for testing that for me. I really appreciate it. too bad it doesn't work, ah well