What the hell is wrong with Kerry?

[shmokes]

I'm so pissed at Kerry.  Not just at Kerry, but the whole democratic party.  What a bunch of pansy asses.  If Kerry wouldn't have completely ignored the swift boat group it wouldn't have even been a problem.  What does he think, these things will just go away?  If this were Clinton it would have been squashed long before anybody even knew about it.  If this were Bush it would have been squashed long before anyone even knew about it.  You'd think the Democrats would have learned something from the 2000 election.

And now, Kerry, who already has an image with many potential voters as an eastern elitest democrat who's out of touch with the common man, takes day off from campaigning.  Does he head down to the local bowling alley on league night?  No.  He's got media taking pictures of him windsurfing in dorky shorts.  Great idea Kerry.  The republicans would never see that coming!!!  Here they thought you'd go after the swing voters and instead you sneak in the back door and try to appeal to their base.

And WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD YOU NOT RUN A NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN?  The other guy is your adversary.  Attack the hell out of him.   The democrats were patting themselves on the back after their convention because not once did anyone make a direct personal attack on president Bush.  HOW AGAIN IS THAT A GOOD THING?  Did they think the Republicans were going to return the favor?  Lame.

Bush will win.  And he'll deserve to win -- because he's got Karl Rove, who knows how to win campaigns and Kerry's got god-knows-who, who knows how to be nice and/or put his/her head in the sand.  I'm starting to think that the only way Kerry could possibly win at this point is if he fires his entire campaign staff and talks James Carville into coming to work for him.  He seems to be about the last democrat left in Washington with a spine.  But then, why would James Carville be willing to work with such a pansy ass.

George Bush was a sitting duck.  I swear to god I should just move to France  

[Dartful Dodger]

 

Seriously, these threads have been done to death.

Even I'm bored with them, and I have nothing better to do.

[Tilzs]

I'm actually tired of both of them.

Vote Libertarian. Badnarik 2004

[shmokes]

Seriously, these threads have been done to death.

Even I'm bored with them, and I have nothing better to do.

Easy for you to say...you're guy is going to win.  But you're probably right.  There's not a lot more to say.  I've just been watching the RNC convention this week and the polls over the last few weeks and getting mad.  It's just frustrating.  

On a brighter note (Hulkster should approve of this) I was just looking at congressional elections at www.politics1.com.  I clicked over to look at the 2004 Presidential Race information and who did I see running as a vice presidential nominee for the Personal Choice party?  Marilyn Chambers.  That's right.  The porn star.

But that's not the best part....not by a long shot.  The only state that the Personal Choice Party has ballot status at this point is Utah, of all places.  I just happen to live in Utah.  And since my vote doesn't count anyway, I'm voting for a porn star!

[SirPoonga]

What the hell is wrong with Kerry?

Same thing with Bush, they are politicians.

[DrewKaree]

I'm actually tired of both of them.

Vote Libertarian. Badnarik 2004

Chuck, is that you?  Oh, I thought you said Bednarik

You'd think the Democrats would have learned something from the 2000 election.

I'm pretty sure they did.  I'm betting in WI it will come out on election day that Bush did coke a long time ago....kinda like his DWI coming out on election day in 2000.  Buck up camper, I bet some smearing will occur leading up to the election

And now, Kerry, who already has an image with many potential voters as an eastern elitest democrat who's out of touch with the common man

wait, does this mean the truth in campaign advertising theory is starting to work...portray the candidate as he really IS?

Does he head down to the local bowling alley on league night?

the urethane reacts badly with the manicure chemicals used on his nails, and all they sell for snacks is hot dogs...and they don't have Perrier.

And WHY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD YOU NOT RUN A NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN?  The other guy is your adversary.  Attack the hell out of him.   The democrats were patting themselves on the back after their convention because not once did anyone make a direct personal attack on president Bush.

I'll be back later...I gotta see if there's any video on the DNC soiree because I must have missed the one you watched.

And he'll deserve to win

first thing I've ever heard you say that I can't find any fault in

because he's got Karl Rove, who knows how to win campaigns

but then you go and wreck all my new-found faith in you coming over to the dark side Conservative side...Rove singlehandedly caused the fiasco we experienced in 2000, thanks to his idiotic idea that California was worth pouring money into to try to win for Bush instead of focusing efforts in swing states like mine...he's in dire need of one of ChadTower's kicks.

I swear to god I should just move to France  

careful...don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!    

[fredster]

Ahh, poor Kerry.  ooohh aahh.

All those nasty republicanusess.  They are mean to Precious.

Mr. MoveOn.org man didn't help him that much.  Mr. Swift Vet was such a meanie.

We need to get Zell, he's not ourses friend.

[abrannan]

Honestly the swift boat issue coming up now is a good thing for the Dems.  It's way too early in the campaign for the personal/issue specific attacks to come out.  If the Republicans are still trying to beat the (by then) dead horse of the swift boat issue in October, the public perception will be that they have no other issue to attack Kerry on.  Yes, the issue hurt Kerry's position in the polls, but people have rediculously short memories, and there's plenty of time to attack Bush on specific issues over the next 2 months & in the debates and win those votes back.  Honestly, among the people I've talked to (and this is by no means stastically significant at all), we don't care about who earned more purple hearts, or if those purple hearts were earned at all, or who had a dentists appointment at a National guard base, or who was released from service early to  work on someone's campaign.  It's seen as this, Kerry served in Vietnam, Bush served in Texas.  And even that difference means little to nothing to us.  I'm certain it means a great deal more to current and former members of the armed forces.  But honestly, when it comes to war, the campaign isn't run by the president.  The order to go into the country is given by the president, but the details of how the war is fought is determined by the Generals.  The fact that the Republicans are beating into the ground the conecpt that Bush makes a better wartime president leads me to believe that they'll keep our armed forces out at war for another four years should Bush get re-elected.  What will happen when it's time for peace?  Will they find another country to "misunderestimate" the level of resistance and insurgency in?

[fredster]

Kerry is actually a republican ploy to make money folks.

I've been personally selling the "purple heart" bandaids and the flip flop shoes here at work.  They are hot sellers too.

As a matter of fact, I sold out twice.  I have to go back to re-supply.

[shmokes]

I gotta see if there's any video on the DNC soiree because I must have missed the one you watched.

There were, of course, indirect bashes in the democratic convention, saying things like, "I will be a commander in chief who will never mislead us into war..." implying, of course, that Bush is one who would and has mislead us into war.  But in the entire democratic convention, according to a count by the NY Times, Bush's name was only uttered five times total.  That's including every day of the convention and every speaker.  Kerry asked all of the speakers beforehand to refrain from directly attacking Bush.  It's just dumb.  It's like Gore's moronic decision to distance himself from Clinton and the 8 years of prosperity he reigned over (regardless of whether Gore and Clinton deserve credit for that prosperity, they nevertheless reigned during it  -- don't get your panties in a twist).  

That's compared with something like 47 times for Kerry's name in the republican convention.

Don't get me wrong.  It would be easy for you to think that I'm trying to make the case that Republicans are negative and mean-spirited, etc.  Which, afterall, I am trying to make that case.  But my point is that Republicans know what their doing and the sooner the democrats realize that they need to cut this crap out about running a "positive" campaign, the sooner they'll start winning elections again.

The speeches that Edwards and Kerry gave right after Bush to try to steal whatever thunder they could from the convention were finally using the rhetoric that they should have been using all along.  Hopefully it's not too late.

And you are crazy.  Karl Rove is a brilliant campaign strategist.  You really oughta give it up for that guy.  He's running an extraordinary campaign.

edit:  I'm seeing a bunch of other things that are saying that Bush's name was spoken "fewer than 15 times" during the convention, so maybe my number given above is too low, ore maybe it's right on.  At any rate, the point still stands whether it's 5, 10 or 15 times.  I just want to make sure I'm not misstating anything.

[fredster]

I guess the dems don't count the references to "the President" as being a reference to Bush in the count.  Othewise I'm sure the number would top 15 Skmokes.

But those who have had to suffer through the relentless crap machine known as MoveON.org and Mikie Moore, our friend Mr. Rove doesn't have to work hard to be a "brilliant" manager.

I submit that the best campaigner for President Bush is the senator himself.  As the Dems love to put words in the President's mouth, Mr Rove doesn't have to, Kerry himself just has to be quoted and we are all okay with it.



It's the RNC's answer to F 9/11.  

Since I liked the promo, I wonder what you guys think.
Also, since most of you guys are so Pro SERVICE record, exactly where did you serve?  I was in the regular army, the reserves, and the national guard.  I was in the reserves by the time Gulf war 1 came along.  Where were you guys?  Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force?

Do you all think that possibly the children that were released from the iraqi prisons were happy you weren't in charge ?  

Now I ask you too, did the Russians do the right thing today or not?  

[abrannan]

Do you all think that possibly the children that were released from the iraqi prisons were happy you weren't in charge ?  

I'd bet they aren't happy I'm not in charge at all.

[DrewKaree]

And you are crazy.  Karl Rove is a brilliant campaign strategist.  You really oughta give it up for that guy.  He's running an extraordinary campaign.

Dude, you've GOT to know that in my mind, your endorsement is reason #1, and the ONLY reason now necessary for Rove to get the boot  I may be crazy, in your opinion, but when someone who opposes you thinks that someone "on your side" is dynamite, then it's time to run as far away as possible from that person.  If it would calm your stomach any, I'd be MORE than happy to start a letter-writing campaign to send Rove over to help Kerry.

I just want to make sure I'm not misstating anything.

I would hope that this line isn't for me, that you've seen enough of me that you know I'd ask for clarification or offer it as a disclaimer that I am interpreting your words.  I've seen so many of your opinions that I hate, that I've come to realize that it's just fun to talk about this stuff with you.  I honestly don't have anyone other than an aunt (who yells at me and says she can't talk to me and goes home) when politics come up to hear the other side without having to "interpret" the words I'm hearing.  

I think your opinions are yours to hold, don't understand HOW you hold to them, and enjoy trying to find a chink in YOUR armor to persuade you to MY side.  You're a worthy discussion member.  Just make sure to come back and talk to us after you move to Cuba  

[fredster]

abrannan,

Man, if you can even begin to give that credibility you haven't been a member of the services.   I often wonder if Liberals have any ability to be embarassed or ashamed of what they say.  I guess they don't, just a little uncomfortable at best.

Drew, if Shmokes moves to Cuba, I guess he wouldn't be able to move back.  He'd have great heathcare bennies, but it's a communist country, so he couldn't like, get out.  He could build a boat with the rest I guess.

 

[DrewKaree]

Drew, if Shmokes moves to Cuba, I guess he wouldn't be able to move back.  He'd have great heathcare bennies, but it's a communist country, so he couldn't like, get out.  He could build a boat with the rest I guess.

it's my understanding that this country is in such a mess with Bush at the helm that Cuba's boat-building industry is suffering because no one wants to come here.  

Anyone hear that story about how the boat-building industry in Miami is booming now that everyone is getting one to make the trip back to Cuba?  

[Ghoward]

Drew, if Shmokes moves to Cuba, I guess he wouldn't be able to move back.  He'd have great heathcare bennies, but it's a communist country, so he couldn't like, get out.  He could build a boat with the rest I guess.

it's my understanding that this country is in such a mess with Bush at the helm that Cuba's boat-building industry is suffering because no one wants to come here.  

Anyone hear that story about how the boat-building industry in Miami is booming now that everyone is getting one to make the trip back to Cuba?  

Since you think the country is such a mess why don't you move to Cuba?

[DrewKaree]

Since you think the country is such a mess why don't you move to Cuba?

I'm just going to assume you don't understand several (or more, MUCH MUCH MORE) things about my post.  Perhaps next time I'll try typing s-l-o-w-e-r so you can keep up, or may I direct you in Shmokes' direction?  I'm sure he can point out your error in a somewhat nicer fashion than I, as I think you should wear your helmet EVERYWHERE, including while you type on the internet.

[tep0583]

Actually, I doubt anyone, ouside of a couple of states where they were running ads, would have heard of the SBVs had the DNC not made such a big deal out of them when that first came out.

Had they just ignord them, they would have gotten near as much publicity and contrubutions and probably would have already have faded into nothing more that a campain footnote, if that.

The Kerry campain and the DNC made a tactical error (and a BIG one) by acknowledging the SBVs and actively trying to shut them down, which only served to ive them more exposure than they ever could have possibly hoped for, one the limited budget they were operating under. Ignoreing them would have been Kerry's best play.

 

[fredster]

The topic is: What the hell is wrong with Kerry?

The current poll bounce for the President is probably going to errode a little.  

I think the basic problem with the Kerry Campaign is that his "supporters" are not for him as much as they are against Bush.

I don't think that some of these people would mind voting for the devil himself if they thought they could get Bush out of office. It's not so much they are not really that hot for him either.  Peale and a whole lot of other people say they don't want either.

Kerry and Bush are going to run an negative campaign for the most part, they have to.  It wins elections.  It is going to come down to who we think will be the best man for the job, or the majority anyway.

20% on either end will vote for anybody as long as it's not the other side.  10% will not have any clue, and the rest kind of be wishy washy (vacilate?) between on guy or the other.

Either way, this is going to be a long election.  Don't worry, we'll have a lot more to talk about after the debates.  

[Ghoward]

Since you think the country is such a mess why don't you move to Cuba?

I'm just going to assume you don't understand several (or more, MUCH MUCH MORE) things about my post.  Perhaps next time I'll try typing s-l-o-w-e-r so you can keep up, or may I direct you in Shmokes' direction?  I'm sure he can point out your error in a somewhat nicer fashion than I, as I think you should wear your helmet EVERYWHERE, including while you type on the internet.

With the attitude you have you should vote for Kerry.

Incidentally I

[DrewKaree]

What I find so telling lately, as this link shows, is the lengths being gone to in order to disenfranchise voters in certain states.  Wasn't part of the protest in 2000 that voters were having their votes for the candidate they WANTED to choose thrown out, due to whatever technicality was in vogue at the moment?

The same party that was crying about disenfranchisement is now ACTIVELY attempting to have an independent voice in this election stifled.  How come this isn't making headline news like the election was?  Is it just a matter of "timing"?  Perhaps we'll see rogue packs of DNC workers offering cigarettes to Nader voters to give them their absentee ballots to file (in the circular file).

Check this guy out.  He turned away from the DNC to Nader in 2000 because, as he puts it, "It's come to this: Democrats like me suffered through 12 extremely long years of Reagan-Bush, willing to do almost anything to get back to power. It didn't matter what was done to get there, we thought, because everything would be different when the Good Guys got to the Big House."

I'd bet he's going to want to continue to vote for Nader this election as well.  Will the DNC work to disenfranchise him, or were the complaints of 2000 just something that applied to Republicans when the Democratic candidate was in trouble?  Should we now look the other way, or will there be an uproar against the Democratic party?

He soon realized, like Zell Miller, that helping do whatever it took to regain that power, his party soon left him by the wayside, just another cog in the giant DNC machine.


Thank goodness politician's mouths only have two sides to talk out of