TECH HELP! - Some Progress - display problems for Moon Patrol Multigame

[RetroJames]

This is a Moon Patrol cabinet that was converted to Vigilante (Jamma).  I have un-converted it aside from the 8way joystick for use with MAME hence the jpac.  You can see a BYOAC thread about the build here:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=20395;start=0

- The monitor is a Wells Gardner Model WG19K4903
- Power to the jamma harness has been disabled
- I am running pure dos with arcadeos
- dmame version = 069

- video card is an ATI Rage II (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5106011395&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)

- I have monitor = 1 (Arcade Monitor) set in mame.cfg
- jumpers set to ( exactly as the appear on the pic at: http://www.ultimarc.com/jpac.html) :

* mame
* ps2
*31 khz
*15 khz

Problems:

1. Controls, I tested the controls that are wired to the jamma harness with the vigilante board and they work fine.  When I boot on the jpac the "keyboard" (jpac) is detected, but I have no success with the cp inputs.  I have no control over arcadeos or otherwise with the joystick or any buttons on the cp.  

2. Maybe related to the one above, when I have the keyboard ps2 port on the PC attached to the "pc/ kb/ps2" port on the jpac and a real keyboard attached to the "keyboard" port on the jpac, I cannot control the pc (arcadeos).  It seems the pass through is not working?

3. When the pc vga cable is attached to the jpac I see "rolling" I adjusted the vertical hold on the monitor, see results below,

a. At the "First Boot Screen" (BIOS etc) - No Roll

b. "Second Boot Screen" (DOS) - Rolling

c. ArcadeOS Starts - stable, except that the picture flickers and various pixels ranodomly turn "on and off" or cycle through colors not intended on the menu or screenshot - This behavior is best seen in the screenshot displayed at the arccadeos main menu.

4. This last one may not be an issue as it is a bit hard to tell without running a game, it appears the picture is shifted a bit too much to the right, but the arcadeos menu is as far left as it can go without going off the screen, is this behavior seen in relation to the jpac?

[menace]

Alright lets start at the top when you say mame.cfg--do you mean arcadeos.cfg?  You ned to set the monitor to arcade in there as well--you also need to give it paths for the mame program,roms etc.

with an arcademonitor and a non-arcadevga video card, you are going to have some serious display issues--try advmame if you haven't already.  It drives the cards much more efficiently than the standard mame program.  There are also drivers written specifically written to push a "normal" video card to 15khz--are you using those for the ati or not?

On your jpac-are you getting 2 leds lit when you turn it on?  you should get one light with power and the next light when sync is receieved--if the second light doesn't go--there's a problem with the video inputs (sync not wired correctly) or with the jpac itself.  I'm not sure about the passthrough problem--it sides like your jpac has got toasted  but without seeing your setup, I can't be sure--the default mame set should work right out of the box unless your jamma harness has been wired incorrectly by the previous owner...

[RetroJames]

Alright lets start at the top when you say mame.cfg--do you mean arcadeos.cfg?  You ned to set the monitor to arcade in there as well--you also need to give it paths for the mame program,roms etc.

1HSC: Yes, my mistake.  I have set arcade monitor = 1 in ARCADEOS.cfg, not mame.cfg.  Are there any settings I need to change in mame.cfg?

with an arcademonitor and a non-arcadevga video card, you are going to have some serious display issues--try advmame if you haven't already.  It drives the cards much more efficiently than the standard mame program.  There are also drivers written specifically written to push a "normal" video card to 15khz--are you using those for the ati or not?

1HSC: Ok, here is where I keep getting confused, I purchased the ATI card as recommended in the monitor forum and elsewhere.  I was also told that I would not need any special drivers in DOS.  If there are special drivers for this card to signal at 15khz, where would I find them?  Also, my understanding is that the jpac will not allow a signal to go to the monitor if it is outside acceptable range (15 khz).

On your jpac-are you getting 2 leds lit when you turn it on?  you should get one light with power and the next light when sync is receieved--if the second light doesn't go--there's a problem with the video inputs (sync not wired correctly) or with the jpac itself.  

1HSC: Will double check the leds, but I m almost positive they were ligting correctly.


I'm not sure about the passthrough problem--it sides like your jpac has got toasted  but without seeing your setup, I can't be sure--the default mame set should work right out of the box unless your jamma harness has been wired incorrectly by the previous owner...

1HSC: Spoke to Andy at ultimarc, he said it MAY be an issue with the ps2 cable, I need to try another to make sure.  I really think the control panel problem is related to all this, as I said the jamma harness worked as it should with the vigilante pcb so I think it is wired correctly.

Please keep any suggestions comming, this is a snag I did not need and have to figure it out sooner than later.

[menace]

1HSC: Yes, my mistake.  I have set arcade monitor = 1 in ARCADEOS.cfg, not mame.cfg.  Are there any settings I need to change in mame.cfg?

I don't think so

1HSC: Ok, here is where I keep getting confused, I purchased the ATI card as recommended in the monitor forum and elsewhere.  I was also told that I would not need any special drivers in DOS.  If there are special drivers for this card to signal at 15khz, where would I find them?  Also, my understanding is that the jpac will not allow a signal to go to the monitor if it is outside acceptable range (15 khz).

Correct on the jpac--it will divide the screen in two so that a 15khz is maintained.  With regards to the ATI check easymamecab.com, I know they have links to drivers for other cards but I'm not sure about the ATI as I've never used one with mame.  In order to get all the games to look right advmame is really the only way to go with a 19" monitor and a non AVGA card.  regular mame will do horizontal resolutions fine but play a game of pacman and you'll see what i mean--the tops or bottoms tend to get cropped.

And by the way--sweet --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- conversion job!that looks great!  I hope my galaxian comes out as nice!

[RetroJames]

Sigh...


Ok, so I got the replacement jpac and the control issue is resolved.

I am still having fairly severe video problems and really need some help at this point.

I am just going to brain-dump the problems, if there is anything you see that you can chime in on please do.

The Setup:

- The monitor is a Wells Gardner Model WG19K4903
- Power to the jamma harness has been disabled
- I am running pure dos with arcadeos
- dmame version = 069

- video card is an ATI 3D Rage II+ DVD (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5106011395&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)

- I have monitor = 1 (Arcade Monitor) set in arcadeos.cfg


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When booting, the screen is split as it is supposed to be.  Other than various rolling issues (normal) and the screen split, the pixels look pretty good (read on)

When arcadeos starts and places you at the menu, you can see various random pixels turning on and off when they are obviously not supposed to be.  It looks a bit like static but a little different.

At this point the screen has a little shimmy to at well.  Very subtle but it is there.

(BTW: The monitor looks incredible when the vigilante board is installed.  Highly doubt this is an monitor problems)

(BTW#2: The vidoe card picture on a pc monitor looks awsome as well.  I say this as at least one person mentioned that it sounded like a video card memory problem.  Don't think so)

Some games I tried and the effects:  [note: all of these games looked fine on a pc monitor] [ note2: All games that displayed had the same "static" effects as noted above.]

Moon Patrol - Some kind of major malfunction - it is hard to tell as the output is sent to a split screen.  Almost looks like some kind of memory dump or something.

720 - Entire game image was on a split screen, left and right borders were in the middle.

Zaxxon - Screen stretched horizontally.

Berzerk - Same as moon patrol

Uggh - I am ready to fall out so I am going to knock off, but if anyone can reply with some direction I would totally appreciate it.  I want to get this sucker done and out asap.  

[menace]

It sounds like your dmame is trying to display on a pc monitor and not an arcade monitor and the Jpac is kicking in and dividing the signal in some cases--did you find 15khz drivers for the ATI?  which ones did you use?   When you set the monitor in arcadeos.cfg all that is doing is telling the front end how to display and not the game itself--you need something in there that keeps the game resolutions to settings the monitor can use...

[RetroJames]

It sounds like your dmame is trying to display on a pc monitor and not an arcade monitor and the Jpac is kicking in and dividing the signal in some cases--did you find 15khz drivers for the ATI?  which ones did you use?   When you set the monitor in arcadeos.cfg all that is doing is telling the front end how to display and not the game itself--you need something in there that keeps the game resolutions to settings the monitor can use...

See many have said I need no special drivers, that setting "incabinet=1" in Arcadeos is all that is needed.  Someone sent me the "arcmon.sys" driver, I suppose I need to load that?  Also, I will try removing the 31khz jumper on the jpac.  The video circuit supposedly  will not allow a signal from the vidcard to pass through unless it is in range (either 15 or 31 khz).  If I remove the 31khz jumper and it continues I would think that at least the screen split (720)is not a matter of the wrong (vsynch?) issue.

What do you think?

[RetroJames]

I got a chance to work on the MP a bit tonight.  When I set the video mode in arcadeos to 320x200 things really started looking up.  The ArcadeOS screen looks great now.  No shimmy, static, and the picture is bigger, clear and focused!

Problem is when I go into mame (play a game) I am back where I started.  The only progress really there is that I found if I I turned off stretch, I get better results on vertical games like donkey kong which was being stretched out horizontally.

Now in DK, the screen is really really small, like 10"x10" or so.  Any ideas as to what that is about?

Also still seeing static, shimmy a little too.  I looked for a similar setting in mame.cfg with no luck.  Am I  missing something?  I feel close here, this appears to have proven the vg card can send the right signal.

[menace]

In your mame.ini file check to see if bezel/artowrk etc are on--if bezel is on it will resize the game so that the original bezel art cold be fit around it--even if you don't have it.

[RetroJames]

Andy,

I will try the test you enclosed below.  BTW: Here are some updates.  (I also sent a note yesterday which I will re-include here)

Andy,

A follow-up with a little progress, jpac is great, really looks like a
config issue on my end.

I got a chance to work on the MP a bit tonight.  When I set the video mode
in arcadeos to 320x200 things really started looking up.  The ArcadeOS
screen looks great now.  No shimmy, static, and the picture is bigger, clear
and focused!

Problem is when I go into mame (play a game) I am back where I started.  The
only progress really there is that I found if I I turned off stretch, I get
better results on vertical games like donkey kong which was being stretched
out horizontally.

Now in DK, the screen is really really small, like 10"x10" or so.  Any ideas
as to what that is about?

Also still seeing static, shimmy a little too.  I looked for a similar
setting in mame.cfg with no luck.  Any thoughts?    I feel close here, this
appears to have proven the vg card can send the right signal, it shouldn't
be a memory issue, and I am confident the jpac is working right on.

Thanks again, James

[Another Update]

After I sent the note above, I worked a while longer and had some more success -

Moon Patrol - By setting

scanlines = no
stretch = no
resolution = auto
tweak = yes

I got the picture I needed.  It looked great, a tad off center to the right, but I think I can sort that out.  Important thing is, no shimmy, static, etc.

Also got Berzerk working the same way.

Asteroids and Major Havoc - THey look good as above except that around the vector lines there is static.  It doesn't appear that the pixels that SHOULD be on are turning off, rather there is a little snow around the pixels (vector lines)  I don't see this "snow" on other areas of the screen just right near the vector lines.

Ghouls and Ghosts - I thought this would be a good test as it has the same res as MP - no dice, with the same settings the picture is squashed with static and shimmy.

That is all I can think of right now, I am going to re-read the docs on the arcadeos and mame display settings and make sure I fully understand the intent of each setting.  Hopefully I can find a pattern for setting up other games.

Let me know if any of this rings a bell.  Thanks.

[RetroJames]

In your mame.ini file check to see if bezel/artowrk etc are on--if bezel is on it will resize the game so that the original bezel art cold be fit around it--even if you don't have it.

I turned that off in Arcadeos.cfg and mame.cfg.  There is an *.ini I need to worry about as well?

[menace]

what version of mame are you running again?

[RetroJames]

what version of mame are you running again?

- The monitor is a Wells Gardner Model WG19K4903
- Power to the jamma harness has been disabled
- I am running pure dos with arcadeos
- dmame version = 069

- video card is an ATI Rage II (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5106011395&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT)

- I have monitor = 1 (Arcade Monitor) set in mame.cfg
- jumpers set to ( exactly as the appear on the pic at: http://www.ultimarc.com/jpac.html) :

* mame
* ps2
*31 khz
*15 khz

[menace]

nm--no mame.ini in dmame .69

[SirPeale]

DOS Mame has "mame.cfg" and Windows Mame has "mame.ini"