MAME cfg is going XML.

[lokki]

Hi,
Looks like the mame cfg are also going to be changed to XML.

http://www.aarongiles.com

[SirPoonga]

This could be a good thing.  Someone could put out a set of files that has all the cocktail games witht he dipswitch set to cocktail.

[Minwah]

This could be a good thing.  Someone could put out a set of files that has all the cocktail games witht he dipswitch set to cocktail.

Would this also mean you'd be able to set analog settings in XML?  Alternatively it seems like a good time for the analog settings stuff to be migrated to the ctrlr ini files...

[u_rebelscum]

But does this mean the end to ctrlr ini files?

There are only a few things ctrlr has over cfg:
1) text editable
2) setable to different folders (for different controllers)
3) uses multiple ini files, depending on game and controls used in game
4) furture proof.

The first one is the biggest reason, IMO, but will be gone after cfg goes xml.  
The second one, well, not many people use more than one folder.  I bet it's a set and forget for most who use ctrlr (no me, but [shrug]).  
The third, like the second, probably isn't highly used.  Again, I know peoploe use this feature, as do I, but what about mameDevs?
The forth is still true ATM, but will the xml be as future proof?  (More so if ctrlr ini is dropped.)

Me, I really like the ctrlr ini files.  But I'm not sure if the two remaining differences are liked enough for mameDev to keep ctrlr ini.  And if the cfg xml files are made so it can do items (maybe) 2 and (especially) 3, well, [shrug] ... is there any reason to keep ctrlr ini?

[Minwah]

But does this mean the end to ctrlr ini files?

There are only a few things ctrlr has over cfg:
1) text editable
2) setable to different folders (for different controllers)
3) uses multiple ini files, depending on game and controls used in game
4) furture proof.

The first one is the biggest reason, IMO, but will be gone after cfg goes xml.  
The second one, well, not many people use more than one folder.  I bet it's a set and forget for most who use ctrlr (no me, but [shrug]).  
The third, like the second, probably isn't highly used.  Again, I know peoploe use this feature, as do I, but what about mameDevs?
The forth is still true ATM, but will the xml be as future proof?  (More so if ctrlr ini is dropped.)

Me, I really like the ctrlr ini files.  But I'm not sure if the two remaining differences are liked enough for mameDev to keep ctrlr ini.  And if the cfg xml files are made so it can do items (maybe) 2 and (especially) 3, well, [shrug] ... is there any reason to keep ctrlr ini?

I hope you're wrong, I love the ctrlr ini files also.  For me 2) is not such an issue, but 3) certainly is.  It is great to be able to setup multiple games at once using the ctrlr files, then for games where eg pedals are treated as buttons etc., you can setup game-specific ones.

It is a shame the MAME dev's don't seem to care much about the control side of things.  If they did, they would do many things differently (ie better).

[SirPoonga]

There is a reason to have the ctrlr files yet.  First, having the preset controller (hotrod, slikstik) configs, the whole reason ctrlr files were made.  MameDevs use those.  I know many devs have HotRods and SlikStiks.

Also, that means cfg files would have to support neogeo.ini, vector.ini, cps1.ini, etc....  All the driver and extra files above romname files.

I can see a time where ctrlr files would go xml.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm mostly worried about the file size.  

Keep in mind guys xml is ascii based and the old cfg files are binary.  

Also the cfg files contain a TON of data, not just controls and dip switch settings.  Basically anything that normally saved to the games battery (if it didn't have nvram)  is saved in the cfg file.  

So your mame install is gonna be huge as cfg files are made automatically.  

Also need I remind you guys that there is no standardization what-so-ever in cfg file data.  It's basically just a raw dump with the exception of control data.  

Unless the standardization of the data is fixed first, I would say this is just a huge waste of time on aaron's fault.  

Oh and just in case you guys don't know, I'm not a big fan of xml.  I think it's another one of these "now" formats that will fade over time.  Also xml is designed for small, simple data nesting, not the huge, complex 1000 level data nesting junk you have to deal with in mame.  

My guess is some of the mame devs recently took xml courses and they are all excited about learning something new so they decided to go mucking about in mame.  Well I learned java, but I didn't rewrite my fe in it afterwards, mainly because java isn't well suited for the stuff I like to do.  

[Howard_Casto]

And on a final note, I am also worried about the ctrlr format.  

I don't think the mame devs were ever big fans of it else it would get worked on more.  Even if it doesn't go away it probably won't be improved upon anymore.  That means that the most accurate control data would be stored on the cfg files.  That also means that us guys working on the controls.dat project are frikkin screwed!  The two formats are convertable, but not easily convertable. So we would have to choose and either way, there are extrememe dis-advantages of doing it one way or the other.  

[SirPoonga]

I don't think the mame devs were ever big fans of it else it would get worked on more.

I doubt this, as they were added so devs could just use the hotrod and slikstik default mappings.  However, mamedevs do have a reputation for once they have something working to not improve upon it.

[u_rebelscum]

Also the cfg files contain a TON of data, not just controls and dip switch settings.  Basically anything that normally saved to the games battery (if it didn't have nvram)  is saved in the cfg file.  

[snip]

Also need I remind you guys that there is no standardization what-so-ever in cfg file data.  It's basically just a raw dump with the exception of control data.  

Unless the standardization of the data is fixed first, I would say this is just a huge waste of time on aaron's fault.  

The cfgs are fairly well standardized.  

The biggest problem in decoding the binary was figuring out where one input (or the other settings HC mentioned) started and the next ended.  This problem will very easily be covered by the switch, as xml is very good at seperating stuff.

The other problem is that the cfg binary needs to match the driver's order of inputs.  If the xml inputs are made so they can be in any order, much like ctrlr ini files are compared to default.cfg. (FWIW, default.cfg has been the only config file that only contains input settings.)

But, yes the xml files will probably 10 to 50 times larger.

There is a reason to have the ctrlr files yet.  First, having the preset controller (hotrod, slikstik) configs, the whole reason ctrlr files were made.  MameDevs use those.  I know many devs have HotRods and SlikStiks.

Ya, that's part of what I ment in: "2) setable to different folders (for different controllers)"  I was not very clear.

Also, that means cfg files would have to support neogeo.ini, vector.ini, cps1.ini, etc....  All the driver and extra files above romname files.

Again you explain it better, but that's what I meant in: "3) uses multiple ini files, depending on game ..."
 

[EndTwist]

If this happens, someone better make an alternate CFGmame (with the cfg files instead), or life will suck!

[Lilwolf]

The world isn't going to end Howard.  

the use of the ctrlrs might be in jeopardy thought.  If they do the cfg -> xml right, the ctrlr files aren't going to be more then a template... but thats still a good thing.

But being able to modify the cfx/xml in the frontends would be GREAT!  You should be able to configure the game (not just the defaults) for any game.  The ability to change dipswitches is also a big plus...

but after all that... I think your right... wasn't really the best use of Aarons time...  But when you code... you rewrite a block because it starts to bug you.

[Howard_Casto]

If this happens, someone better make an alternate CFGmame (with the cfg files instead), or life will suck!

Hold up now... we have been telling you guys for almost two years now that cfg files were going away.  You should be saving all of your major input settings via ctrlr files at this point.  If anything, they are parsable and can be converted later, cfg files, not so much because of the reasons rebel mentioned.  

[u_rebelscum]

If this happens, someone better make an alternate CFGmame (with the cfg files instead), or life will suck!

Why?

The only problem I see is the increased file sizes Howard mentioned.  That won't make like suck.  Any other reason?