MAMEWAH's Options Menu

[Minwah]

OK I have been thinking about this for a little while...reasons for ditching the menu are:

Some people don't link the way things are layed out, so they don't use it,
Some people like editing CFG files so they don't use it,
Some people like using MAMEWAH Setup, so they don't use it,
Once setup as you like there is no reason to have to set it up again *

The way I feel atm I want to drop the menu, but bear in mind this:

1) *I will first make the CFG files backward-compatible so you never have to start from scratch when a new version comes out.

2) I will keep the menu, for 'fun' stuff like adding games to custom lists, and generating custom lists with filters.

Also I feel the amount of time spent coding the options menu (quite a lot of time actually) is not worth it, since not many people actually use it...the time could be better spent on other things...

Please post what you think

[2600]

Is ditching the right word?  I think you've gotten it to the point where there aren't any bugs?, shortcut keys for frequently used things, and does everything it needs to.   What else are were you planning to do to it?

I think some people's major beef is they don't read the instructions before using it and want things done automatically which is impossible.  Once you start using MAMEWAH, you get use to the basically two button interface(which is actually a good thing since not everyone has access to a bunch of buttons) and edit the cfg files by hand.  Screenshotarchive helps a lot with this as well.  That changed with MAMEWAH Setup abit, but  I still do all three for certain things.  But even MAMEWAH Setup isn't currently perfect in every situation.  For me the only thing that is a bit cumbersome is custom lists, but that's because there are just so many clones to go through in MAMEWAH and MAMEWAH Setup is a little hard to use at 640x480.  But you can't please everyone all the time.   I say great job, you haven't left that part of the product partially working, work on the part you want.

Basically, I'd personally hate for it to dissapear from the MAMEWAH, but if development stops on it's features then that's not so much an issue.

[Minwah]

1) Is ditching the right word?  I think you've gotten it to the point where there aren't any bugs?, shortcut keys for frequently used things, and does everything it needs to.   What else are were you planning to do to it?

2) For me the only thing that is a bit cumbersome is custom lists, but that's because there are just so many clones to go through in MAMEWAH and MAMEWAH Setup is a little hard to use at 640x480.  But you can't please everyone all the time.   I say great job, you haven't left that part of the product partially working, work on the part you want.

3) Basically, I'd personally hate for it to dissapear from the MAMEWAH, but if development stops on it's features then that's not so much an issue.

1) Well currently I am re-writing the entire input system (so control mapping etc. is being removed from the menu anyway due to the new system).  Actually I have a heck of a lot of stuff to do...and every time I add a feature I have to code it into the CFG structure (easy), and then add to the options menu (not difficult but takes a little while).  The biggest pain I guess is making sure after an option is changed, whatever has changed takes effect.

2) Do you know about the clones filter?

3) OK.  Certainly development of features is not stopping, but with a better (more intelligent) config system I think the menus would be somewhat less required.

Thanks for posting, lets see what some other's think...

[Alcohol]

when you say ditch do you mean get rid of it completely?..

Iuse the menu to change emulators.. add cfg bit's to mame (pic's ect and command lines) also as my system boots into mamewah its nice to be able to drop back to windows using the menu to adjust things..  i like the menu as it makes skiping through the emulators and games very easy.. but i must admit i dont use alot of it and dont no what some of it does..

After saying all of that though.. i use an old version of mamewah (old style skins) , not because i dont like the new ones or what youve done, but just because it works!.. so unless my cab needs re-installing i can say itl matter :/..

but you seem to know what your doing

Alc

[screaming]

Hmm.. I have personally used the menu a couple times, but not enough for it to be worth significant coding time on your part.

Coming from a UNIX background, I am used to the config-file editting method of configuring a program and don't have a problem with it.  As far as filtering and otherwise customizing game lists, MAMEWAH Setup can take care of that for me...

-Steve

[2600]

1) Well currently I am re-writing the entire input system (so control mapping etc. is being removed from the menu anyway due to the new system).  Actually I have a heck of a lot of stuff to do...and every time I add a feature I have to code it into the CFG structure (easy), and then add to the options menu (not difficult but takes a little while).  The biggest pain I guess is making sure after an option is changed, whatever has changed takes effect.

2) Do you know about the clones filter?

3) OK.  Certainly development of features is not stopping, but with a better (more intelligent) config system I think the menus would be somewhat less required.

Thanks for posting, lets see what some other's think...

1) Makes sense.
2) Come on now, you have to give me some credit.  What I meant is there are so many variations of games.   But even after using the clone filter going back and adding PAC-MAN instead of PUCK-MAN and the english version of games instead of the Japanese versions.  There just isn't a convienent way for locality.  I remember first time setting up MAMEWAH, got rid of the clones and played Pole Position.  I got a little freaked when the announcer started speaking Japanese.  But I'm digressing from the topic of your thread.
3) Sounds good.  Seems like a no brainer on which way to go, can't wait to see it.

[Onji]

When i started using mamewah i found using the menu's wasnt the easiest thing in the world. Everyone was a newbie at one point. Then i discovered mamewah setup, and ive been hooked ever since. Ive only recenly found myself using the menu just because i have a better understanding of how mamewah works because of mamewah setup.

I guess my point is, if you do choose to take the menu's out, please be sure make it clear to the visitors of your site that its best they use mamewah setup if their starting out. If they just download mamewah, and try to use it, it may turn them away from finding out how great this frontend is due to having to do everything manually (yes i know they could rtfm, but lets face it, not everone does that).  Heck, even having a version that has mamewah setup bundled with mamewah would rock.

Just my 2 cents worth

[Minwah]

Thanks for the input chaps

Just to explain a little better on the 'Yes, except games list stuff' option in the poll (& to answer your question Alcohol), what I had in mind was to leave the select emulator / games list stuff, the add/remove games to/from custom list options, and filtering stuff.  ie The stuff you (usually) only need to setup once, would be gone.

I thought about making a very simple wizard for setting up the basic options and emulators...that way people can use that or MAMEWAH Setup for more advanced stuff...

[Orclord]

Well since I started with Arcadeos and AdvanceMame...I just always edit the.cfgs.....Not used to all these fangled menu thingy's

Only time I have used it is for the Exit....

Ohh BTW......Oook...Oook.  

Seems like you're attracting them of late....

[TalkingOctopus]

I have always found editing the config files to be easier than navigating through all of the menus.  I think it would be ok to slim down the options menu.  However, in addition to the game list stuff, I hope a few more functions stay in the menu.

1) The ability to toggle the default MAMEWAH exit action, (i.e. shut down, exit to windows, restart)
2) The ability to remap MAMEWAH controls.

Thanks for all of your hard work on MAMEWAH!

[Alcohol]

Thanks for the input chaps

Just to explain a little better on the 'Yes, except games list stuff' option in the poll (& to answer your question Alcohol), what I had in mind was to leave the select emulator / games list stuff, the add/remove games to/from custom list options, and filtering stuff.  ie The stuff you (usually) only need to setup once, would be gone.

I thought about making a very simple wizard for setting up the basic options and emulators...that way people can use that or MAMEWAH Setup for more advanced stuff...

that sounds good to me, as long as it dosent loose the "functionality" of changing emu's and shutting down and esc to windows then the less there is for the kids to wreck the better i guess.. plus if there's a wizard to set all the other settings then the extra menu options are no loss at all..

sound like more good work m8.... maybe i should upgrade :O



Alc

[3NF]

OK I have been thinking about this for a little while...reasons for ditching the menu are:

Some people don't link the way things are layed out, so they don't use it,
Some people like editing CFG files so they don't use it,
Some people like using MAMEWAH Setup, so they don't use it,
Once setup as you like there is no reason to have to set it up again *

The way I feel atm I want to drop the menu, but bear in mind this:

1) *I will first make the CFG files backward-compatible so you never have to start from scratch when a new version comes out.

2) I will keep the menu, for 'fun' stuff like adding games to custom lists, and generating custom lists with filters.

Also I feel the amount of time spent coding the options menu (quite a lot of time actually) is not worth it, since not many people actually use it...the time could be better spent on other things...

Please post what you think

Same post in the other thread, but here it is again ...

I use your frontend all the time and I wouldn't mind if it was gone, especially since I can setup all that in the config file (MameWAH Setup could use some work ). But hey, don't listen to me .. do what you want  It's your program. Just make sure it works, and I won't complain

[stuzza]

I think it'd be ok to remove some of the things from the menus, but if you were to do it I would ask that you make the config files clearer.  Basically what I mean is you would need to change anything which used non clear values, ie. numbers, to useful text.  Namely these two items:

List Generation Method = 3
Show DOS Box = 2

Change the values to their text descriptions instead ie:

List Generation Method = RomvsListInfo
Show DOS Box = AutoMAME

I often have to check these within the menu to make sure I used the correct number.  If you want to keep with the numbers then I'd suggest putting a comment above these lines in the config file and specifying what each possible number option is and what it does.

Oh, and I agree that all the menu items relating to changing emulators, creating lists and assigning keys should be left in!

[Minwah]

I think it'd be ok to remove some of the things from the menus, but if you were to do it I would ask that you make the config files clearer.  Basically what I mean is you would need to change anything which used non clear values, ie. numbers, to useful text.  Namely these two items:

List Generation Method = 3
Show DOS Box = 2

Change the values to their text descriptions instead ie:

List Generation Method = RomvsListInfo
Show DOS Box = AutoMAME

I often have to check these within the menu to make sure I used the correct number.  If you want to keep with the numbers then I'd suggest putting a comment above these lines in the config file and specifying what each possible number option is and what it does.

Oh, and I agree that all the menu items relating to changing emulators, creating lists and assigning keys should be left in!

Yep I will be changing the settings so they are more readable - think mame.ini

The assigning keys part has already gone from the menus....I guess you want that left in as it is not easy to set the keys from the cfg file??  Don't worry, my new input system takes care of it - think mame's ctrlr ini files

[TalkingOctopus]

The assigning keys part has already gone from the menus....I guess you want that left in as it is not easy to set the keys from the cfg file??

Assigning keys from the config files could be OK, but I think it depends on how it is implemented.  Will each key have a code or a name?  How would I map a function to the "up arrow."  Honesly, I have never really understood the keyboard codes where a key mapping would look something like this:
"UP=085"
However, if you provided a list of all the keyboard codes it would not be as painful.

[Minwah]

Assigning keys from the config files could be OK, but I think it depends on how it is implemented.  Will each key have a code or a name?  How would I map a function to the "up arrow."  Honesly, I have never really understood the keyboard codes where a key mapping would look something like this:
"UP=085"
However, if you provided a list of all the keyboard codes it would not be as painful.

As I said, think MAME's ctrlr ini files - no more keycodes in sight

[simplygriff]

My first instinct says keep the menus but that's because I'm used to them.  My experience  with Mamewah Setup was not a good one (Probably something I did wrong) but setting up everything through your menus and using screenshot archives tutorials everything went smoothly.  

If you want to get rid of them that would be fine if it's going to be like mame's .ini file.  I'm used to configuring that too.

Your plans to go to  ctrlr.ini like files sounds a little scary for me becuase I've never quite figured them out.  I just hope you will provide detailed instructions on configuring them.  It will be cool to not have to use JoytoKey anymore.  Oh and I can't wait for the trackball/mouse support.  

Just my $.02  Thanks Minwah!
-G

[Antix]

Well, my 0.02c.

I say keep them. I was trying to setup using the mamewah setup tool. Everything was working great except when I choose Roms Vs DAT. I couldnt refresh the list. The button was always greyed out. So I went into Mamewah and refreshed using the option there and all is fine now.. I can even see the names as they should be!

So keep them cause it was very useful to me to have multiple ways of doing things.

[Minwah]

Your plans to go to  ctrlr.ini like files sounds a little scary for me becuase I've never quite figured them out.  I just hope you will provide detailed instructions on configuring them.  It will be cool to not have to use JoytoKey anymore.  Oh and I can't wait for the trackball/mouse support.  

I seriously suggest you give MAME's ctrlr ini files a go - they're a godsend especially for cabs with multiple controls.  And not difficult at all actually

As per usual I doubt I will have *massively* details instructions...however I have been making specific docs on the subject as I go, and also the files contain comments, and I will be including some samples too.

It is cool not to have to use JoyToKey...but in switching to DirectX I have somewhat worsened/broken the analog input handling atm, so I am working on fixing that up again atm...

Thanks for the votes/comments, keep em coming...so far keeping the menu is winning, but I don't intend to change this either way for the next release anyway...