I realize I'm new, BUT...

[independentthread]

I'm new to this.  I don't even have my cabinet yet and I'm still finishing my research.  I realize that certain video cards need to be used to reach the needed khz output.  I realize that in some cases there needs to be a certain voltage in order for the video signal to have strength.  The thing that I'm not understanding is the cabling between an arcade monitor and a computer video card.  Let's say that the moons are in alignment, the flowers are in bloom and everything is peachy keen as far as the monitor working with the video card.  Is there any reason why I couldn't just splice a vga to rgbhv cable and insert/attach the cable to the appriate adapter holes/monitor cables and have it work?  I keep seeing that people are paying tons of money for special conversion cards and nothing that justifies this.

This link is of the cable that I'm referring to:
http://catalog.blackbox.com/BlackBox/templates/blackbox/itemgroup3428guest.asp?param=883&ig_id=3428&title=VGA%26%23150%3BRGBHV+Cables&related=

[Grauwulf]

Best thing to do IMHO is to buy an Arcade VGA card from Ultimarc, as it outputs the correct frequencies and the 1v signal level that most monitors need to display correctly. You should be able to just hook up a hacked VGA cable to your monitor and be done with it.

[menace]

Link didn't work for me..anyways as long as you are outputting a 15khz signal with a distinct red, green, blue, ground, horizontal or vertical or composite sync you are good to go, the only risk with running the monitor straight from a video card is that until the right drivers are loaded the output from the card will be out of range for the monitor (31khz or so) which could damage it.  the jpac keyboard encoder divides this signal whilst at the same time providing you keyboard to joystick interface--which is why people either go that route or use and arcadevga which is the cadillac of video cards for arcade emulation--can't beat it.

[independentthread]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41999&item=3485477051&rd=1

This link should work.  I guess that other site doesn't like me.  But then again, looking at some of the prices of their stuff, I'm not sure if they like CUSTOMERS!!!
But yah, as I said, I've researched the video card status, and I know that one of the two of those is the best way to go, j-pac or arcadevga...But I keep finding people saying that you have to have both in order for everything to work correctly, when it seems to me that if you have a video card that will put out the correct voltage and khz then you don't REALLY need either one.  But then again, I have seen guys taking on this project that have asked questions like "Does E-bay sell roms?"
Enough said.

[Grauwulf]

Well I wouldn't say you need both the Arcade Vga and the J-Pac together, as long as you have a card that can output the correct resolutions & refresh rates the J-Pac would be fine alone. It will boost the standard VGA signal to the levels required to drive the monitor and it will keep you from sending signals to your monitor that could damage it.

[JoeB]

there are a few things that have to come together in order for this to work.  But before I go into details, let me step back and explain a few things.

Unlike a PC monitor, and arcade monitor is really dumb.  It doesn't really support auto synching and auto resizing the way a PC monitor does.  The reason for this is simple.. they have no need.  They were build to work in only 1 resolution and 1 sync - that of the arcade PCB that's connect to it.

the problem stems from the fact that you want it to run at many different resolutions (different ROMz).  So you need a video card that supports all these resolutions.  Most video cards do not support these resolutions.

Further more, arcade monitors work at different refresh rate than PC monitors (1/2 to be exact).  Very few video cards can output at that frequency (and why should they?)

So to get the correct resolution and correct frequency.. only 1 does it .. ArcadeVGA.

The reason why people also get the JPAC/IPAC is not for the video.. but rather for the encoder.

If you hack a keyboard chances are you'd run into many problems (like ghosting).  The JPAC/IPAC were designed from scratch to avoid such problems.

Hope this helps.

[SirPeale]

Okay, let's clear some stuff up here.

the problem stems from the fact that you want it to run at many different resolutions (different ROMz).  So you need a video card that supports all these resolutions.  Most video cards do not support these resolutions.

That's not true at all.  I recently tested ten different VGA cards, ranging from old ISA cards to current AGP cards.  eight of ten gave me a working 15KHz signal, at any resolution I chose (well, resolutions under 800x600)

Further more, arcade monitors work at different refresh rate than PC monitors (1/2 to be exact).  Very few video cards can output at that frequency (and why should they?)

So to get the correct resolution and correct frequency.. only 1 does it .. ArcadeVGA.

The ArcadeVGA is good if you use Windows.  If you don't, you don't need it.   There is one other solution, the Trident Blade T64 series chipset, there are drivers for Windows to get it into 15KHz mode.

The reason why people also get the JPAC/IPAC is not for the video.. but rather for the encoder.

There are several reasons for both.  J-PAC not only has the encoder, but it has a built in video amplifier, and since it plugs directly into a JAMMA harness it's all wired, and ready to go.

The I-PAC does not have this video amplification circuitry.  Ultimarc sells a seperate video amp if you want to use an arcade monitor.

[JoeB]

Peale:

Isn't it true that with all other video cards, you're basically stuck with modifying mame (and using AdvacedMame) as well as getting special drivers for windows?

What if you want to also play laser disc games? You're stuck with windows.

The biggest advantage with the ArcadeVGA is that the tinkering is at a much lower level.. it's done at the driver layer of the OS rather than a TSR program that loads with the PC.

[SirPeale]

Isn't it true that with all other video cards, you're basically stuck with modifying mame (and using AdvacedMame) as well as getting special drivers for windows?

You might have to tweak some settings, but not have to modify Mame itself.

What if you want to also play laser disc games? You're stuck with windows.

Last I checked there were Mac and Linux ports of Daphne.  

The biggest advantage with the ArcadeVGA is that the tinkering is at a much lower level.. it's done at the driver layer of the OS rather than a TSR program that loads with the PC.

Actually, they're pretty much one and the same.

[independentthread]

Well...if the ipac doesn't actually have the amp built in, then I think they might be falsely advertising it...but either way...
If I'm understanding this correctly, you really have no need for the j-pac if you already have the wiring or a wiring kit for the controls to hook up to the computer, and the only reason why you really need the arcadeVGA is if you don't have a video card, or can't find a video card that will work correctly for the necessary output...like I originally said.
Here's the kicker question, for the video cards that will put out the necessary 15 khz, do you have to have SPECIFIC drivers, or is it something that the video drivers already accomodate and you just have to flip a setting around?
I realize that arcadevga does it for you, but I like to do things the hard way.

[Grauwulf]

I believe that most video cards (other than the Arcade VGA) need specific drivers to access the 15kHz frequency range.

[SirPeale]

I believe that most video cards (other than the Arcade VGA) need specific drivers to access the 15kHz frequency range.

Only for Windows.  

[JoeB]

Only for Windows.  

Aren't most people, who get new 2Ghz+ systems, use windows.  

If I spend over 1000$ to build a MAME machine, what's an extra 100$ for the ArcadeVGA to make it perfect??

As far as other video cards, what happens when the TSR driver is not loaded? The JPAC/IPAC split the screen? What about DOS?

[independentthread]

I'm not looking at running a 2 ghz computer inside the cabinet, because i'm only gonna use it to play games like SF 2 and Raiden.  I'm trying to keep my price down, and the easiest way is to go buy some cheap video card off of e-bay and get it running correctly.  If I don't need the arcadevga I want to get around it.  I mean, if this one is a complete success then maybe I'll put together one with all the needed equipment for it to be the perfect eye killing machine.  For now, I'm cheap.
Lets say I wanna run through a command line in dos.  What card would you suggest?

[SirPeale]

Lets say I wanna run through a command line in dos.  What card would you suggest?

ATI Rage 3D would do it.  Same card I have in my rig.  Shouldn't be more than like $10 on eBay.

Heck, you might have a card laying around that will do it.  What cards do you have?

As for the whole Windows thing, well, some people do it, some don't.  I don't.  That may change in the future, but for now...

[independentthread]

Well, as of right now, I know I don't have anything that will work.  The only one i have laying around is a Voodoo card and some ancient 1 meg intel boards.  I read on another site that the Voodoo cards won't display at 15 khz, and the intel boards...well...they're so old that I can't even find drivers for them that will work on windows 98.  They display as 2 color and that's it.  Hell, I don't even know why I still have em!!!

[menace]

As peale was saying there are alot of video cards that will output to 15khz with the right software--the advance mame site has a list of cards that work with advmame and therefore will work at 15khz.

Well...if the ipac doesn't actually have the amp built in, then I think they might be falsely advertising it..

You're confusing the ipac (dedicated keyboard encoder) with the J-pac (keyboard encoder+videoamp+monitor clock divider)  If you use a regular videocard i would strongly recommend the jpac to prevent your monitor from being driven out of its range by a pc video card and possibly damaging it.   I have used the trident card from ebay ($7+ shipping) and the J-pac with great results.  Please remeber that if your monitor is driven by a video card that expects a pc monitor to be hooked up to it, it may be destroyed.

[independentthread]

You're confusing the ipac (dedicated keyboard encoder) with the J-pac (keyboard encoder+videoamp+monitor clock divider)  

Yes I was...thank you for pulling my head out of ---my bottom---.  

[Popcorrin]

If you have a VooDoo card you can check out this site.  It has some TSR drivers for VooDoo chipsets set to run at 15khz.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.lewis5/arcade/monarc.htm

[independentthread]

You know, I think I may have jumped the gun on even starting this thread...The monitor isn't as big as they said it was going to be, so I might replace it with a VGA display.  They told me it was going to be either a 27" or a 25" and I looked up and found out that there was a 25" version of the cabinet I was buying...But it was a kit cabinet, so It's only a 19 or 20" monitor.  who knows...I'll have to think this out now.  Thanks for all the info and input.

[kujina]

Peale

While I like the looks of the arcade vga I also want medium resolutions too (25KHz).

Peale you seems to know your stuff, do you know if the Trident Blade T64 will work in windows XP and do 15KHz 25Khz and 31Khz?

[SirPeale]

I don't know off the top of my head, sorry, but a search will hopefully provide some insight.

[RetroJames]

What PCI video cards will work?

[kujina]

What PCI video cards will work?

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/sis6326.htm

Is it possible to run other emulators at 15KHz resolutions with say a Trident Blade T64 apart from just advanced mame?

[AlanS17]

Personally, I'm an ATI fan for MAME. The ATI Rage series are cheap and can handle 15KHz, even in Windows.

I had to seriously tweak my video settings in Windows through a program called Powerstrip, but I got Windows running on a cheapo ATI card. The best way to do this, though, is through a dual-monitor setup. You use one screen to configure everything and use the other screen to show the changes. This will prevent you from destroying your monitor from bad ranges. When you're done with the card you don't need, simply pull it out and Windows will default back to the other card. TADA! (Did that make any sense at all?)

[krick]

I'll just throw in my justification for the J-PAC...

Regardless of which OS you use or which video card you use the J-PAC is a sound investment for two reasons...

1) You are more than likely going to need a keyboard encoder and a video amplifier.  The J-PAC has both.

2) All video cards (except for the ArcadeVGA), regardless of the OS used, output at too high of a refresh rate while displaying the BIOS POST screen.  No TSR program can change the refresh rate of this screen.  The J-PAC protects your monitor by dividing the refresh rate in half from the inital display up until your TSR or 15KHz Windows drivers kick in.


The only negative of the J-PAC is that it requires a JAMMA harness to plug into.  However, if you're converting an existing cabinet to MAME, you likely already are wired for JAMMA.  If you're building your own cabinet from scratch, you'll have to buy a bunch of wire, and connectors, and wire your cabinet anyway, so why not buy a Super-Super JAMMA Harness kit from Bob Roberts for $30 and wire your whole cabinet JAMMA:
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/jamhar.html
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/super.html
http://www.dameon.net/BBBB/jh.html

An added benefit of wiring your cabinet JAMMA is that you can easily run a "real" arcade PCB just by adding a arcade power supply and plugging the board into your harness.