only mame on an arcade monitor?

[thelevin8r]

First, assuming that I will be able to get windows running well on an arcade monitor (WG 19K7601) with a Jpac and Matrox G400, will I still be able to play something like Dragons Lair? What about vector games like Astoroids? What about console games?

[Slice]

I'm new to this as well, but I'll share what I can, - Although this is probably more software than Hardware!
       I had Firstly DOS then Windows running on my Arcade Monitor with a Jpac and Matrox G400, I was using the frontend ArcadeOS - Which will Display DOS MAME on an Arcade screen.
There are others that willl do this such as AdvanceMame and AdvanceMenu (But I found that they can be tricky to configure-but may just have been my monitor!)
As for console games I know that ArcadeOS will display them on an arcade screen but they must be command line (DOS) Based, I was running ZSNES on mine! I also ran a DOS Based jukebox called DAMP on it as well!
Hope this helps!

[thelevin8r]

That does help, thanks!
Since your setup is so close to mine, I have some specific questions of you don't mind. Are you able to use the G400 to run windows so you can use the windows version of mame and windows fronends such as Game Launcher (I think this is the one I will use but not sure yet)? Durring the boot sequence, are you able to see the entire process?

[SNAAAKE]

SCANCONVERTER DUDES...easiest way...you can get one for like $150 or so..never used one..but only heard good stuff..they are return policy so if you dont like just return it.i lost the link..but if i find..i will post..they will show windows perfectly on your arcade monitor..and get a video card that has s-video or av inputs then you can hookup consoles or get dreamcast vga box for dreamcast.scan converters will make your arcade monitors just like a vga monitor..i will look for the link

[Slice]

The G-400 so far as I can tell, will not show windows, problem is that windows will not output at Arcade monitor frequency (15Khz~)
Snake's idea is best, but I haven't tried it yet ( I'm a bit cash strapped at the moment ) So I'm going to put in a TV in my cabinet running off an ATI RADEON card that I got (Sometimes calling in favors are great!!).
I will be keeping the Arcade monitor though and maybe now will eventually return to using it with a scanconverter,
If anyone has done this and has had a good result if they could post the link that would be great!
That said thelevin8r - you should have enough to get you going - have you hooked it up yet?  

[thelevin8r]

That said thelevin8r - you should have enough to get you going - have you hooked it up yet?  

Not yet. First I need to build a new PC for my other half, so I can use hers for the cabinet. It is a p3 500Mhz with onboard ATI Rage Pro 3D (based on Mach64) so I am thinking that I will try my hand at dos mame and ArcadeOS. Also still waiting on the Jpak to arrive. In the meantime I just play Double Dragon....

[Eddie Fantastic]

I have just today got windows running on arcade monitor with a g400 running the interlace util. It runs windows fine, a little flickery. but that was expected.
After a little tinkering I found that if I changed the mame32 settings as follows:
resolution: 640 x 480
depth: 16bit
to match my desktop settings and the rest of mame32 set to defaults, it displayed every game I tried full screen hardware stretrched to fit the screen (excect vertical games which had black borders to the left and right, as I had hoped).

I have played around with dosmame/arcadeos/advancemame with mixed results. Yes, the majority of games worked fine but there was so much tweaking involved, and some games I could never get to work right.

And now I have network support and access to over 40 gigs of mp3 at my disposal, and with my awe64 gold soundcard outputting to a mini hifi mounted in my cab it's nothing to be scoffed at.

What I'm looking for now it a decent frontend that will drive mame32 using the settings I need. I really don't want it to look like a windows program. Any suggestions?

[Slice]

There are a couple, ArcadeOS being a simple (But good) one.
There is some good work being done here - Check out the links below (their authors post here all the time) Although the raging dragon emulator is currently dead, with it seems something special promised soon.........

http://www.i-modernist.com/emulaxian/

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/dragon/index.shtml

Emulaxian also has a jukebox - I have it downloaded and ready to install (I just haven't had the time to try it out this week!) Like you my system has a network card and by remote desktop I can access my MP3's.
One question what is the interlace util?

[Eddie Fantastic]

One question what is the interlace util?

Thanks for those, I'll give them a bash.
The interlace util is a very small prog that you run in the background of windows and so long as you have a g400 will output at 15 khz, the picture is flickery since it is interlaced. But when mame kicks in it stablises.
I can't find a link to it right now, but if you want it email me and I'll send it to you, it's very small.

[Slice]

Hmmm! Didn't know about that!!     Do you know is there one for the ATI Radeon? Or is there any way to get it to output 15khz? That could change my current plans!!!!!!!

[Eddie Fantastic]

Not that I know of. But there is a similar prog here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.lewis5/arcade/video.htm
which I've not tried myself, but may be worth investigating.

[Howard_Casto]

I saw mention of scan cnverters up there.  Let me assure you that a 150$ scan converter is going to be bad quality compared to a video card. Good scan converters cost several thousand new, but they will give a superior quality.  

[AlanS17]

The answer to ALL your prayers!!! (hopefully)

Ya'll need to get in touch with a program called PowerStrip. (You can get it at download.com) It allows for totally dymanic tweaking of virtually every commercially viable video card on the market (and them some). I've used it to get Windows XP running on my arcade monitor with no gimics or tricks.

It supports individual tweaking of hsync, vysnc, and well... just about everything. It provides on option for interlacing (depending on your video card). It won't perform miracles, and only works as well as your video card. I'm blessed with a Matrox G400 (just happenned to be what I had already) so it works well for me. For instance, if your video card does not support interlacing then you will not be given the option to interlace.

I haven't tweaked any games to actually run in Windows yet, because I really wanted to use DOS... But that may be the easier option. There is minimal flicker, but that would be due to the interlace. When you use a frontend such as Game Launcher you don't even notice. I've noticed the flicker comes from thin horizontal lines, little words, and very detailed backgrounds.

When I tried running Street Fighter EX2 Plus in Zinc in Windows in played for a few moments and locked the computer. Moral of the story... avoid 3D if you're already taxing the video card. I imagine running DVD's would probably act wierd, though I haven't tried it (I don't even own a dvd drive. That belongs in the living room hooked up to the tv anyways.) And anything that requires changing the video mode is obviously going to probably give problems too (since you're already using a video mode that works).

At any rate, I got 800X600 interlaced working. The program has built-in settings, but I didn't find them useful. Had to tweak my own which may have been why it was so fussy. I'll probably drop down to a lower resolution to try to avoid the thin-line flicker, but I'll worry about it later.

Here's a tip I've found to come in real handy, though... Get your hands on a second video card (any cheapo card will do). Now BEFORE you install the computer in your cabinet, install PowerStrip on your computer. It will auto-detect your video card. Then shut it down and drop in the second (cheapo) video card. You'll have to switch your monitor over in the back because it will detect the cheapo card as the default...

NOW hook up your good card to the arcade monitor. Windows will allow you to view both screens at once and Power Strip will let detect the new card as well. You can use your regular monitor to visually configure the arcade monitor one step at a time. Then when it's perfect... turn the sucker off and remove the cheapo card. Windows will default BACK to the good card and PowerStrip will have saved your tweaked arcade monitor settings. You're good to go!!! (hope that wasn't too much)

Ok ok ok I'll shut up already. Hope this helps out. I know there are very few resources online for getting arcade video on Win200 or WinXP... Come to think of it... I haven't seen any at all. But this site inspired me and I did some homework on it. Though I would tell the world...

AND BE LOOKING FOR MY PROJECT SUBMISSION WHEN I GET IT ALL FINISHED!!!

--------------------------
AlanS17 (AlanS17@msn.com)

[AlanS17]

For Slice... I've got interlacing working great on Nvidia and Matrox. Used it with an ATI, but can't remember the results.  

[Slice]

Fantastic!!!!!! That's real good work!! May get a chance to try that later - I'll give it a go with the Radeon and post the results, if it doesn't work it won't be the end of the world anyway as I can swap out for my brothers G-400!!!!

[MrTomcat]

AlanS17: Could you post up a step-by-step guide as to how you got powerstrip working with your arcade monitor ?

I have had partial success in that I can get the desktop and Emuwizard displaying properly @ 640x480 but Daphne refuses to play (the video is corrupt). Also MAME is not working either....normal resolutions such as 320x240 are not being displayed at arcade frequencies (the JPAC is detecting this and displaying side-by-side images).

Cheers,
Chris.

[Slice]

OK - got a chance to mess with this over the weekend, Powerstrip does seem like the solution! I'll describe whats happening and if anyone can shed a little light that would be great!!
The ATI Radeon running ArcadeOS (In Windows) to my Arcade monitor directly connected - Perfect!
When I set Powerstrip to 15Khz - I get a display but it makes everything well, fuzzy, the entire desktop is shown on screen but it's too big for the screen(@640x480) so it's overlaid on itself and it makes it look like a Ghost image (Sorry but it's very hard to explain) - Alan17 can you post your setting!!
More - When I set Powerstrip to 35khz - it displays almost perfectly, except that the view area is half way off the screen, and I can't adjust it to the centre, using either software or hardware (Trim pots.) Is this because the frequency is wrong!?!
Alan17's idea about using the two cards is brilliant, but I'm having a problem getting the two to work - I'll keep trying though! (It will save so much time!)
Finally , MrTomcat - as soon as I have it working I'll be happy to post my settings.

[JLR2000]

The powerstrip solution sounds great.  Can you guys post recommendations for video cards and any other settings/helpful info.

I have an old neo-geo cab with a good monitor that I want to hook up to a windows pc to run Mame.  I haven't put the computer together yet so any suggestions/requirements would be great! Also, are you guys using a JPac or some other way of getting the video signal to the monitor?

[AlanS17]

Ok well I unplugged my computer from my cabinet for a while. I've been trying my hardest to get it running in DOS rather than Windows. It's just (theoretically) simpler. When I get it plugged back in I will be more than happy to send in my settings. It involves a lot of tweaking and it help to read up on articles describing how sync rates work. That way you know if you're tweaking in the right direction or not (since my settings may not work for everyone else).

If you have a J-PAC, it would help to read the article on how it treats input and output video signals. (You can find it on their website).

I'm using a Matrox G400 (just happenned to be what I already had - lucky me) with a Wells Gardner 25" monitor. I'm not afraid to tweak because the J-Pac has the built-in ability to block higher frequencies from hurting an arcade monitor. I think it will allow through any frequency under 30Hz. But if you're getting double images that probably means you're not interlacing. Again, this is all off the top of my head. I'll have to lok it all up again when I get it hoked up. I'm just waiting for the ROM CDs I ordered to hurry up and get here in the mail so that hooking it up is actually worth my while! I'll keep checking back here for sure, though. In the meantime, if someone knows why my games won't work in DOS, post!!!

[JLR2000]

Windows is key for me b/c I need USB support.  Regarding your Matrox G400....can you give me any more specifics?  I did a pricewatch.com search on "Matrox G400" and many showed up, but I don't know if you are using a 16mb, 32mb, single head/dual head etc.  

Thanks again for your posts.  This (powerstrip+Matrox G400+Jpac) sounds like the best solution for me to date.

[AlanS17]

Mine is a G400 32MB single head. If you're looking for a good price on one, watch the prices at ubid.com...

I prefer to buy hardware there over Ebay if I can. Fewer bidders, more reliable shipping, and direct payment (but if you ever outbid me on an item, you better lock your doors at night).   j/k

[Slice]

Hi Alan17 - did you get your system working in DOS yet? Rather than run in pure DOS why not boot to windows then auto-load up your DOS Front end?
I'm still having problems, but my biggest problem is finding the time to mess with the damn thing!!! It looks like I'm going to switch back to the G-400 , but I want to make sure that I'm not doing something stupid first. Correct me if I'm wrong but in powerstrip you go to
Display Profiles>Configure>Advanced timing options
Then do you go to custom resolutions and select one there or is there another way?
For JRL2000 - I'd go with the 32Mb for sure (The more the better and I would imagine that prices for 32 V 16Mb now are not too far apart!) That said the 16Mb will do the trick nicely too  

[JLR2000]

Ok guys, can anyone answer this:  Has anyone been able to run Win98, running like ArcadeOS or GameLauncher or some other DOS FE to their 15mhz arcade  monitor with little to no problems?  I really need USB support, so if I can have wind98 running, I can live with DOS mame and a DOS FE.  Will a USB controller still work if I'm running DOS mame?  Sorry, I'm stuck....I have a very nice arcade monitor that I want to use, but I want to make a dedicated driving mame cab with my PSX driving controls (which work with the PC thru the USB port).  Everything I've been reading seems to say you can have your arcade monitor, but only with DOS, or I can have my USB controller, but only in windows.  Alan and Slice seem to have gotten the closest with the aid of PowerStrip, but they both are going the DOS route.  Can anyone offer any help or just tell me if what I was hoping to do is just not possible? Thanks.

[Slice]

 Hi JLR2000,
I've been away for a while and haven't really had the chance to do much, but........
I have windows running at 640 x 480 on my 15Khz arcade screen using my ATI Radeon 32Mb card and PowerStrip.
Powerstrip  http://www.entechtaiwan.com/ps.htm
I had a bit of messing around, went into
Powerstrip>Display profiles>Configure>advanced timing options - unchecked the real-time-adjustment and checked the interlaced box also the composite sync box and finally adjusted the Horizontal Resolution to 15Khz.
(OK - this is a basic run down, I had to mess around for a while!)
I'm going to run the Lazarus front end running MAME and I'm also going to include a N64 Emulator.
Hope this helps a little - I'll post more as I encounter problems......

[generousben]

Hi
slice,
Yes The radeon cards are the ones to use.
You will find they are very well suited to what you are trying to do.

Displaying windows and windows programs on 15khz arcade monitors has always been about  software,it is not a hardware problem .Scan converters are not needed,a PC is very clever(no ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---)it can be told to use any type of screen at any resolution. you just need to give it the right set of instructions Many people have failed to get the results they want because there are not working out the whole problem, of what is stopping them from displaying windows. When scan converter first came out graphics cards were no way near as powerful as they are today,and they only had support for a hand full of resolutions all of which were design to be compatible with VGA screens .
any one using outdated graphics card hardware is going to find it very hard to get good results .
trident blade cards are yesterdays technology even if you get it to display windows you will not be able to play any of the latest emus due to its lack of 3d power  so what's the point?The same goes for the g400 cards its too old and slow
guys why waste your time if your going to get flickery results?.There is decent gfx hardware out there so use it.
and trust me the scan coverer route is not the one to take ,you don't need an external box to convert the signal,
just let your Radeon card tell you PC what you want it to do.

For the record I have had windows running on a15khz since
Jan 2002. using a 1.2 Athlon and a Radeon card.
The display is perfect .
I am currently running:

Zinc
mame
snes9x
epsx
steem
vivanano
final burn
pj64
all on a 15khz arcade monitor just using a radeon card and j-pac.This is the best  and cheapest set up i have currently seen and displays the emulators in the best possible way with no picture degradation like scan converters and with out all the hassle of DOS and DOS mame.

Ben

[mhoward211]

Hey Ben, thanks for all the information!  Looks like I might be using your suggestions so that I can finally get away from my DOS/arcade monitor setup.  What frontend are you using?  Have you been able to replace your Explorer.exe shell?  Or does your machine just boot into Windows?

Michael

[SNAAAKE]

BEN,

will you please tell us how you did..EXACTLY..

starting from what card i gotta get and the total setup..and maybe some screen shots..

c'mon..help poor brothers out over here

..i really wanted to use arcade monitor..

so post.

[John]

well, i spent about 3 hours tonight tweaking with powerstrip and various vid cards with my 25" Zenith arcade monitor (I think it's zenith)

anyhow, didn't have much success.  With the aid of a JPAC i wasn't afraid to try different settings.  The default 640x480 was actually the best showing 2 images (since jpac does it's splitting)  using powerstrip I was tweaking with interlacing and the horizon frequency.  Neither one resulted in a stable picture.

at one point i was really close with a geforce 256 card. it was able to show windows 640x480 but as soon as I open a window or there's more on the display than the blue background it got fuzzy and the picture starts to jump.

one question however, for those who have success with powerstrip, did you have to adjust the horizontal and veritcal sync on the back of your minitor as well?   The monitor works very well currently with the mortal kombat pcb so I didn't play with the settings.

anyhow, just to echo the previous posts if you're reading this BEN.. we'd appreciated greatly if you can post your settings with your radeon card.  I think I'll stop by CompUSA tomorrow and pick up a converter to see if that'll give me better results with my vid cards..

oh yeah, I tried with both geforce 256 and a ati rage pro 128.

[Slice]

Hi JLR2000,
I've been away for a while and haven't really had the chance to do much, but........
I have windows running at 640 x 480 on my 15Khz arcade screen using my ATI Radeon 32Mb card and PowerStrip.
Powerstrip  http://www.entechtaiwan.com/ps.htm
I had a bit of messing around, went into
Powerstrip>Display profiles>Configure>advanced timing options - unchecked the real-time-adjustment and checked the interlaced box also the composite sync box and finally adjusted the Horizontal Resolution to 15Khz.
(OK - this is a basic run down, I had to mess around for a while!)
I'm going to run the Lazarus front end running MAME and I'm also going to include a N64 Emulator.
Hope this helps a little - I'll post more as I encounter problems......

Hi John - I got this all working, but I did have to mess around with the Vsync and Hsync on the monitor, Since this last post I have Lazarus working and I'm getting closer.
If you need more help let me know.......

[MrTomcat]

Out of interest, what flavour of MAME are you using with the Radeon ?
I am currently using the trident 3d/vsyncmame combi but if If Daphne can be made to work using powerstrip I may well switch to the Radeon.

[Slice]

I was using windows MAME through Lararus - I'm now using lzmame (It's the version Howard has on his site!) I haven't tried Daphne so I don't know how well it works! I assume once it's kept to the same Res as powerstrip it will be OK!

[MrTomcat]

As I understand it lzMAME is just the same as standard MAME meaning the arcade monitor support has been removed (e.g. no more -monitor arcade from the cmd line).
How do you get this to work in your cab ?

[Slice]

MrTomcat,  I not using the Mame settings to display on an arcade monitor, it's the program Powerstrip that is displaying windows on my monitor!!

[krok_le_bo]

Hi JLR2000,
I've been away for a while and haven't really had the chance to do much, but........
I have windows running at 640 x 480 on my 15Khz arcade screen using my ATI Radeon 32Mb card and PowerStrip.
Powerstrip  http://www.entechtaiwan.com/ps.htm
I had a bit of messing around, went into
Powerstrip>Display profiles>Configure>advanced timing options - unchecked the real-time-adjustment and checked the interlaced box also the composite sync box and finally adjusted the Horizontal Resolution to 15Khz.
(OK - this is a basic run down, I had to mess around for a while!)
I'm going to run the Lazarus front end running MAME and I'm also going to include a N64 Emulator.
Hope this helps a little - I'll post more as I encounter problems......

Hello Slice,

I was wondering which version of Power Strip you used for this. The last one is 3.30, but I found several methods which let me think it was a version before 3.0, like 2.78.

Thank you for your answer