Should I or Shouldn't I ?

[fredster]

I sold an arcade machine on Ebay to a man two weeks ago.  He had 198 100% good feedback points.  We sent a couple of emails to each other talking about shipment, etc.

Then he sends me an email asking if I would let him pay on the 20th. He didn't want the balance to hit his balance before the end of the billing cycle. Since he had good feedback, I said sure.

A couple of days later he emails me back and says he has "buyer's remorse" and that his "wife had just lost her job"

I offered to hold the machine in storage for a couple of months.  He came back and said he couldn't afford it now.  I told him I'd take 1/2 and hold it for two months.  Then he came back and said I should relist it.

I bent over backwards I thought.  I told him I'd have to give him some negative feedback.  I've had over 100 transactions and never, ever had to do that. Then he says he'd have to fire back with negative feedback.

He tells me that "it's part of ebay to relist items"  He's had sellers "not part with their items" and he's had "buyers not pay" but he let them slide.

I told him it was simple, pay or negative.  Non-paying bidders deserve negative feedback whatever the reason, and it underminds the feedback system.  If there had been one negative feedback in his list for non-paying, I'd have made him pay on the terms of the auction.  He doesn't seem to be a jerk, but he stiffed me on this one.

Should I let him slide, I think he may have ran into a problem.  What do you guys think?

[JackTucky]

Got to give negative feedback.  Put that buyer told you he had "buyers remorse", heck, even put, "retaliatory feedback to follow"  

Anyone reading your feedback will see his stuff as retaliatory.

[GGKoul]

Yep, you got to leave the negative feedback.

[dendawg]

There's one way to ensure he doesn't leave retaliatory feedback.
Just wait till the last possible minute, then post it.

[fredster]

How do you wait "to the last minute"?  Wait 90 days?

[JackTucky]

There's one way to ensure he doesn't leave retaliatory feedback.
Just wait till the last possible minute, then post it.

That's smart.  Sneaky.  I love it.  

Art

[zaphod]

Give him the negative feedback.  Chances are he has done this before and has threatened retalitory feedback then, too.  You can word the feedback politely.  If he wants to be a butthead after that, it'll be obvious who was right.

[Mr. Dude]

I personally would cut the guy some slack.  if you think he truely ran into some rough times then let it slide and relist it.

[rchadd]

just forget it (give him the benefit of the doubt!) - give neutral feedback and give clear reasons why - relist the item and get hopefully to get a better sales price and prompt payment.

ultimately what are you going to do? you can't force him to buy it if he doesnt have the money or want to.

if he's done this before karma's will get him sooner or later...

if he gives you negative feedback - i think you can appeal and get ebay to remove it (in your case i think they would do this)

oops... are you in US? ok then better sue his arse goodbye

[fredster]

I don't take feedback lightly.  It's how we evaluate the other guy in buying and selling.   I haven't had to leave bad feedback in any deal I had, buying or selling.

I think it underminds the system completely to lie.

I thought about neurtral, but I personally feel that's for people who were slow paying / shipping, or had communication problems.

Negative should be reserved for people who lie, cheat, or don't pay.  

At least that's how I feel about it.

Anybody have thoughts on neurtal vs negative feedback?

[abrannan]

If it were me, and it's not, I'd present him the offer to have him pay your listing fee, since that's the only amount of money you're really out in this whole affair, then leave neutral feedback.

[fredster]

You know, I did that on the next to the last email.  He said report it to ebay and they'd pay.

There is like a 4 step process to getting that back, and yeah, I'm doing that.

It's just a freaking pain to deal with deadbeats.

[SirPeale]

You know, I did that on the next to the last email.  He said report it to ebay and they'd pay.

That's your answer right there.  Despite that yes, eBay will refund your money, he's playing the part of the dick.

Wait until like the nth second before you can not leave FB, and then leave it.

[Santoro]

You know, I did that on the next to the last email.  He said report it to ebay and they'd pay.

Based on that he is a plain old run-of-the-mill slimeball.  I take back what I said about pity above and I agree,  stick it to him with negative feedback in 90 days.

[maraxle]

Check his contact information carefully.  If there's even a slight typo in it, you can get any negative comment that he leaves removed with minimal fuss.  It's a little-known eBay policy, but if your listed contact info is not 100% correct, anyone can ask to have feedback you leave removed.  I had a retaliatory feedback that someone left for me removed because his phone number was wrong.

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm a buyer on ebay, I don't sell things on ebay, does negative feedback hurt me at all? (btw: all I have are positives). I usually don't leave any feedback, but a couple of times I got a great deal and I expected the seller to rip me off  When they came through I left positive feed back.  I haven't been ripped off on ebay yet, but that's because I don't buy from people with negative feed back, unless they have thousands of positives and only a handful of negatives.  If they do have negatives I'm wary about bidding, and I wont bid as high as I would if they didn't.

Can you block a buyer with a negative from bidding?

Giving a negative to buyer is just showing that your a seller who leaves negative feedback, so if I did get a great deal from buying from you, I wouldn't leave feed back, just because I'd be afraid you'd leave negative after I left you a positive.


^{I think it underminds the system completely to lie.}

It's not a system it's a business.  Ebay's business is getting you to pay them to put things on eBay.  Your business is getting people to buy things from you.  Leaving negative feed back on a buyer intimidates other buyers into not buying from you, leaving negative feed back on a seller intimidates a seller into not ripping you off.

Or to make it simple, you leave negitive feedback.  You feel better the second you hit that submit button cause you "showed him".  He replies that your a liar and you took his money, he then closes his account and starts a new one.  Now you have a negative in your "left to others" and the next guy isn't sure who to believe.

[maraxle]

Can you block a buyer with a negative from bidding?

A seller can block anyone they want from bidding on an item.  They can also remove a bid.  I've done it a few times when I have specifically stated that I won't ship outside the US, and someone outside the US bids without emailing me first.  I also block anyone who has previously ripped me off.

Giving a negative to buyer is just showing that your a seller who leaves negative feedback, so if I did get a great deal from buying from you, I wouldn't leave feed back, just because I'd be afraid you'd leave negative after I left you a positive.

That doesn't even make sense.  If someone rips me off, I'm going to leave them a negative.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  If they complete the transaction honestly, they'll get a good feedback.  I don't know of any sellers who would leave negative feedback on a paying bidder who leaves them a positive, unless they bounced them a check or something.

Leaving negative feed back on a buyer intimidates other buyers into not buying from you, leaving negative feed back on a seller intimidates a seller into not ripping you off.

Any buyer with an ounce of common sense would know that a seller has nothing to gain by leaving unjustified negative feedback.  If I see that a seller left a negative on someone who didn't pay, and then got dinged with a negative in return, I am not afraid of buying from that person.

By the way, what's your eBay name?  Your ideas on feedback are a little too different from mine for me to want to bid on one of your items or sell to you.

[fredster]

Good point dodger.  It hurts me more than him because I sell things.  That's why I'm torn here.  

I've always played above board and done things to what I feel is the RIGHT way. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I believe in personal responsiblity.  

Check my feedback at fred9984.  I take feedback seriously.  And I leave it.  It's the ONLY indication we have about a buyer/seller.  

I make decisions on issues based on feedback.  I am like you, I have a limit to feedback.  If he's less than 97%, there is something wrong and I always check it.  If I don't like what I see, that's it.  I'd do the same with a buyer if I saw it in the feedback.  I haven't had to do that yet, but I would if there was an issue.  

I let him slide from the original deal because he had really good feedback. IF I don't move on this, then somebody else may get burned like this.

[maraxle]

Since I joined eBay in 1997 (before they even had feedback ratings...) I have had to leave 4 negatives, 1 neutral, and one or two cold positives* to go along with 140 or so positives.  I received 1 negative in retaliation, but got it removed on the technicality I mentioned above.

Personally, even though it can potentially "hurt" me, I will continue to leave negatives when they are justified.  The tactic described above about waiting the 90 days is a great one for if you are afraid to leave a negative.

* - A cold positive is when the transaction completed successfully, but the seller might have overestimated the condition of the item.  It's something like "shipped promptly, scratches on cd were easy to fix".

[Dartful Dodger]

From a buyers viewpoint, the seller has nothing to lose. (again...from a buyers viewpoint)  The seller doesn't ship an item until he/she gets their money.  If your not smart enough to wait until the check clears before shipping, I don't want to do business with you.  A negative feedback just proves to the buyer, your incompetence.

By the way, what's your eBay name?  Your ideas on feedback are a little too different from mine for me to want to bid on one of your items or sell to you.

... you don't have to worry about me, if you don't know how to make a transaction go smoothly and you have to leave negative feedback, I wont be bidding on your items.  That's just the way it is.

[Sasquatch!]

Definitely leave negative feedback.

The whole purpose of feedback is for future people who might chose to deal with this guy.  I'd certainly want to know.

[maraxle]

From a buyers viewpoint, the seller has nothing to lose. (again...from a buyers viewpoint)  The seller doesn't ship an item until he/she gets their money.  If your not smart enough to wait until the check clears before shipping, I don't want to do business with you.  A negative feedback just proves to the buyer, your incompetence.

And what about bidders who don't pay?  That deserves a negative feedback.  No incompetence on the part of the seller.  I don't ship until I receive payment, but I leave negative feedback if someone bids on my item and decides not to pay.

[maraxle]

... you don't have to worry about me, if you don't know how to make a transaction go smoothly and you have to leave negative feedback, I wont be bidding on your items.  That's just the way it is.

*removed by me - a little too caustic for even my tastes* - Maraxle

[Spaced Invader]

I say, take a deep breath...wait 90 days...and hit him with a negative. He earned it. You won't really hurt him (he has 190 positives). He can't hurt you (you waited until he couldn't). And you did your part in reporting this jerk...making him think twice before bidding.

Just my opinion...they vary!  

[SirPeale]

Oh yah, post this guys ID so we can add him to our blocked bidder lists.

[fredster]

Here's the transaction that caused this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=3285649772&ssPageName=STRK:MESSO:IT

I thought it was a pretty good deal for him anyway.

What is a "blocked bidder list" ?

I appreciate all of your ideas.  I'm gonna do the last day thing.  That in itself is a pain.

[bigmoe]

I'm a buyer on ebay, I don't sell things on ebay, does negative feedback hurt me at all? (btw: all I have are positives). I usually don't leave any feedback, but a couple of times I got a great deal and I expected the seller to rip me off  When they came through I left positive feed back.  I haven't been ripped off on ebay yet, but that's because I don't buy from people with negative feed back, unless they have thousands of positives and only a handful of negatives.  If they do have negatives I'm wary about bidding, and I wont bid as high as I would if they didn't.

DD, that means mostly you've been lucky.  I'm pretty much a buyer-only, too.  The relatively few times I've been ripped off have always been by people with positive-only feedback (though fortunately on relatively minor purchases; I never make big purchases on ebay unless I've dealt with the seller before personally).

That said, I investigate any seller I'm interested in who has any sort of recent negative feedback.  Quite often, that buyer has left a lot of negative feedback, so it's not difficult to tell what happened.  I never penalize a seller like that.  So as a buyer, I wouldn't consider you a risk even if this guy did retaliate.

I'm rambling here, but my vote is: negative feedback in 90 days.  I think this guy knows the ups and downs too well not to be playing with you.

b

[bigmoe]

I'm gonna do the last day thing.

Whoops, didn't see!

b

[maraxle]

What is a "blocked bidder list" ?

It's a feature of eBay (I think it's in the My eBay section) that allows you to prevent certain accounts from bidding on your auctions.  It's not 100% effective, since someone could just create a new account, but it helps.

[Magnet_Eye]

Hey, meanwhile.. you had other bidders for your machine, one guy bid $425, but lost. Why don't you email some of the losing bidders and tell them the winner failed to pay, and would they be interested in your item still.

 

[fredster]

I did email them, the one for $425 said he found another machine, and the other one didn't answer me back.

That was the first Big machine I tried to sell. I ususally just sold small parts.  

I am surprised how many different views there are on Feedback.  

If there is a bunch of negative feedback it scares me off too.  I don't like to see that.  To me it means the seller is having trouble communicating or is just an ass.  I always try and send some email thanking the person, then when I send it, and when I think they have it.   People just want warm fuzzies about the transaction.

But if people lie on the feedback, it undermines the ability to determine if he/she is a jerk.  But I cut slack where it needs to be cut.

[SirPeale]

http://offer.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?bidderblocklogin

[GameDork]

Fredster:: I saw you lived near/in Nashville. Where exactly do you live? How far away are you from Chattanooga? I live in Cleveland,Tn just minutes from Chatt.

 If you live close enough and had anymore machines up for auction, I might be interested in bidding since I could pick it up!!

[Stingray]

I don't buy from people with negative feed back, unless they have thousands of positives and only a handful of negatives.

These are the worst kind in my experience. I recently bought an item that did not work from a guy with a feedback like this. When I tried to get a replacement/ refund he refused. I told him I'd leave a neg. His reply was "go ahead, I've got thousands of positives, you won't make a dent in my feedback".

-S

[bigmoe]

I don't buy from people with negative feed back, unless they have thousands of positives and only a handful of negatives.

These are the worst kind in my experience. I recently bought an item that did not work from a guy with a feedback like this. When I tried to get a replacement/ refund he refused. I told him I'd leave a neg. His reply was "go ahead, I've got thousands of positives, you won't make a dent in my feedback".

-S

I agree, these are the worst.  That's why I investigate any recent negative feedback (presuming my bid is high enough to warrant my time).

Of course, if the seller is one of those who waits to give feedback until after the buyer does (thereby holding the threat of retaliation despite the fact that the buyer has already paid in good faith), then even those few negatives are probably a deflated total.

b

[shmokes]

Yeah...the guy's a dick.  Perhaps you should consider sending Ebay copies of your correspondence to have his account closed altogether.  He is clearly breaking the rules by giving retaliatory negative feedback.  He won an item and then backed out.  That's clear grounds for negative feedback.  He has no legitimate claim to giving you negative feedback.

[fredster]

I am following the non-paying bidder procedure. I'll do exactly what they indicate to do in this instance. If he gets 3 they will ban him after that.

This would be his first.  I did tell him that if he didn't pay and made no effort, I had to, and this is the way I put it "slam his feedback".  I said it was not an option to pay, it was an obligation.  Hense the "your bid is a contract" phrase before you hit send on a bid.

He did respond back at that and said he would have to leave negative feedback it would hurt me more than him, because he's a buyer and I'm a seller.  He said he wasn't a jerk and I wasn't a jerk, and some more stuff that didn't include a way to pay me.

The last personal correspondance I sent to him was " well, my negative will say "won auction, didn't pay, deadbeat bidder"  Then I asked "what would your negative feedback be? "seller wanted his money and I didn't want to pay"

After that, he didn't write me and I didn't write him.  I just used the ebay "Non Paying Bidder Invoice".  No reponse.

I'll mark 90 days on the calendar to avoid the retaliation.  I like that idea, but it takes some commitment to remember.

[paigeoliver]

The 90 days thing has not been set in stone on ebay for years. Auctions sometimes vanish sooner now, sometimes later. You can't go by 90 days anymore.

[flampoo]

I wear my one negative feedback (101 @ 99%) like a badge of honor. It gave me the opportunity to publicly slam someone. No holds barred. "You're the one who doesn't pay and I get bad feedback? You're an idiot," and, "Can't follow simple directions. 7 days to pay, not 30! Not my fault you're dumb!" Verbatim. I actually look foward to when I can do it again. Of course I'd rather have everything run smooth.

[SirPeale]

I sold three Gamesharks on eBay in a dutch auction.  Two of the three people paid promptly, and were fine.

The last guy paid with PayPal using a credit card.  I stated in my auction that I didn't take that.  He says he will use another payment service.

I wait a month and write again.  He tells me that he's no longer interested since I won't take PayPal his way, and "sorry for the inconvienence."

He's already got one neg for non-payment.  I checked the other guys feedback, and he didn't leave any.

I'm torn.  Do I let it go?  So far I've got a perfect FB rating.  Likely I will leave a neg, but I'm dreading the retalitory FB.