Author Topic: Arcade Monitor vs Crap VGA (Read 3082 times)

Harry Potter · « **on:** April 10, 2004, 02:06:15 pm »

O've gotta get something off my irrational mind. I reckon people who stick PC monitor into their cabs are missing the whole point of the authenticity thing and are fools. They build these fantastic looking cabs (although go easy on the buttons and controllers sometimes boys) and then they round it off by sticking a $50 VGA monitor.

I bet if these same people had Porches, they'd be putting 2 stroke engines into them.

It's a cheapass way to get it going and if the people aren't willing to shell out a bit of extra cash+effort on finding working arcade monitors, then they should have their cabs confiscated and sold as firewood.

It's worth it and. You're only gonna build the cab ONCE. Why ruin it???

Feel free to prove me right or wrong or swear at me using lots of these @#%* symbols. Irrational opinions welcome. I've a good day. I beat my mates Galaga high score and now he owes me a carton of smokes. (Plus Sydney killed Geelong)

NOTE: This is a semi serious post.

Zapper · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2004, 05:29:27 pm »

Yeah, a little VGA does look pretty goofy in a cabinet. A good arcade monitor is going to cost several hundred so a cheap VGA or TV may have to be used to get a cabinet fully operational for gaming. Most people probably plan on adding an arcade monitor or a bigger PC monitor or TV to their project eventually. Give 'em a break

Nightmare03 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2004, 06:25:48 pm »

or maybe some people just find it easier to just hook up a vga monitor, or maybe they want to use other windows apps on it too?

SirPeale · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2004, 06:30:20 pm »

Some VGA monitors look pretty good. I've got three cabinets right now. Two with actual arcade monitors, and one with a PC monitor. I can tweak the PC monitor (which is a really good 19" with a ton of resolutions) for scanlines, and they look fairly decent.

However, definitely prefer the arcade monitor. Looks a ton better.

The only game I haven't figured out how to tweak yet is 'Blasteroids.' It always comes out with the very center of the screen. It's weird. I think I need to play with my resolutions.

Harry Potter · « **Reply #4 on:** April 11, 2004, 12:43:52 am »

OK well... ehm.. I guess I got a beef with arcade monitors as well. When the resolutions don't fit the screen properly. After about 3 months of tweaking like mad, I've finally managed to get it PERFECT yeasterday. Still shows black bars but I can play about 95% games in their native res. The colour settings came a day later.

I wasn't talking about a good arcade monitor. Good ones cost a fortune. Even my cheapass-ness won't let me get one. Dead cabs? Second hand arcade dealers, repair shops.

Still all the above is definitely worth it to have Rygar, rygaring away in it's near native res.

Use other windows APPS??? What are we building here? Hang on.
*stomp**stomp**stomp**stomp* *creak* *quiet* *creak*
*stomp**stomp**stomp**stomp**stomp*
Yep. It's arcade cabinets, not glorified computer cases.

JUST kidding. Heh. I' wouldn't mind a few NES games myself but for a few technical issues. One of them is I'm lazy.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #5 on:** April 11, 2004, 01:38:37 am »

Arcade monitor video & sync standards are slightly different than computer monitor standards. Most commercial arcade monitors are made to be repaired while most computer monitors are made to be thrown away.

hyiu · « **Reply #6 on:** April 11, 2004, 02:26:05 am »

well... I am actually... really... building a glorified computer desk.... just with arcade CP on it....

mine has no marquee... and is designed to be a sit-down cab... (but not a cocktail...)

and yes, I do need to use it as a computer... when my friends are over... they also check emails... surf web...
and play games... and jukebox... (I now have like 20G of music / songs in there...)

I also use it as a computer when I'm downstairs, and it also has a wireless lan... dvd burner... and also house a printer inside on a slideable tray !!!!....

and yes, no arcade monitor... I have a 21 in computer monitor...

is it authentic ?? hell no....
but I'm happy with what I got....

does the screen looks like the real arcade ??...
frankly.... for most of the games... I don't really remember...
but to me, and most of my friends (if not all...) its close enough..... (and if you have a pblm with it... you can simply don't play.... I'll be next on line then.... hee hee...)

Harry Potter · « **Reply #7 on:** April 11, 2004, 08:34:26 am »

Yeah, I've got a desktop too. But I was talking about the kind that takes coins. Guess it's close enough.

Nice use of dots by the way.

In your case VGA is a better idea since you're surfing the web. After a few hours of that on an arcade monitor you'd be making an appointment with an eye doctor.

delta88 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 11, 2004, 01:52:29 pm »

For me it depends on size.. anything under 25" I goVGA. Once it hit 25 its arcade monitor all the way cause it eiser to go that route as opposed to a tv. but then its a matter of availability. and sometimes budget.

picky picky.. man.... who sad everyone wanted to be totally authentic.

Tailgunner · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2004, 05:21:44 pm »

Given the choice between a raster arcade monitor or a PC monitor for a vector game cab, I'll take the PC monitor every time.

spidermonkey · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2004, 11:22:11 pm »

I don't care if someone has an arcade or a pc monitor as long as its porportional to the size of the cab. There's nothing more unprofessional looking then seeing a fullsize cab with a large cp and then they throw in a 15" or 17" pc monitor. If someone just isn't willing to shell out the cash for a decent size monitor then build a smaller cab like a caberet or cocktail which would look fine with a smaller monitor. As far as what type of monitor to use, I went with 22" pc monitors in both of my cabs and I'm very happy with them. I play lots of vector games,I play several pc games and I still use the cabs to browse the net to update MAME and troll for new roms so a pc monitor was my only logical choice. There are lots of things you can do to get a pc monitor to closer resemble an arcade monitor. #1 When looking for a pc monitor try to find one with a high dot pitch to cut down on the sharpness, #2 Cover the monitor with charcoal smoked plexi to cut down brightness and #3 play around with both the monitor adjustments and the adjustments in MAME itself. These are the things I did and I'm very satisfied. I went on vacation in New Hampshire back in January and spent countless hours playing the originals at the Funspot arcade. I was so excited knowing that I was finally going to be able to play the original games with real arcade monitors again but you know what ? With all the tweeks and things I did with the pc monitors in my own cabs I really didn't see much difference in picture quality. Then I thought to myself maybe I should wait until I get home and play my machines again before I decide that there isn't much difference. The same thing happened when I got home. I just didn't see any huge differences in picture quality. I did however see quite a difference with the original vector games so that was a bit of a disappointment getting back to playing Asteroids on my MAME machines BUT if I had used arcade monitors in my MAME machines then the vector games would look even worse then on my pc monitors so I still say that pc monitors were my best choice. I think the 22" pc monitors are the perfect size too.

Nailz · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2004, 01:31:33 am »

Quote from: bosss7 on April 10, 2004, 02:06:15 pm

I bet if these same people had Porches, they'd be putting 2 stroke engines into them.

Feel free to prove me right or wrong or swear at me using lots of these @#%* symbols.

Please feel free to dazzle us with your fantastic cab...... I am hoping you can back it up with all the crap you just spit out. Please tell me you have a cab.....

Harry Potter · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2004, 04:56:21 am »

I do have a cab which is in almost original condition (Including the 20inch arcade monitor) save for the control panel which I built from scratch. Oh and put in stereo sound instead of mono. Does the marquee count? I'm in it more for the nostalgia but still like a game of Metal Slug. Building it from scratch is something I'll leave for another day.

As for my peeve with PC monitors I think this sums it up really well.
"I don't care if someone has an arcade or a pc monitor as long as its porportional to the size of the cab. There's nothing more unprofessional looking then seeing a fullsize cab with a large cp and then they throw in a 15" or 17" pc monitor. If someone just isn't willing to shell out the cash for a decent size monitor then build a smaller cab like a caberet or cocktail which would look fine with a smaller monitor."

I still disagree with PC monitors in general but do understand some people are short of cash. That's, understandable but not when people build the whole thing from scratch, controls, wiring, sound, fantastic side art and all that included and then say something like 'I don't know how the wires from the ArcadeVGA go into the monitor so I'll VGA it'. It's not that difficult.

delta88 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2004, 11:05:03 am »

well, f its all about nastalga go all the way. ferget bout dat Hi-Fi stereo. mono all the way.. build a 2nd cab for new games like metal slug. Or just keep your opinion to yerself

I have a mspac galagareuion cab with a single speaker and the PC monitor tube temp turned down and vert scanlines turned on.. now next to my real vert games it looks great.. nice match.. but if you want the real deal you need the classic hardcore pac burn in the monitor.. that or burn from some old poker game...

Its one thing to like using arcade monitors but another to "hate on others" thats just wak!!

yeah those big cabs with the the 13" ers are taky. but people build it and im sure are darn proud of it. get ova it.

hmm now what if I stuck a $10.00 arcade monitor in my cab? is that better than the $50.00 monitor you speak of? I dunno.. is it that we need to spend more money on them as well?

its all what the people like....

nuff said...

kill this thread

Harry Potter · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2004, 12:14:02 pm »

Hate??? Dissaprove. Big difference. Now that's WAK!

delta88 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2004, 02:01:09 pm »

wellwhen ya cal people fools........ some might call yu a fool for using and arcade monitor due to the short life span it may ormay not have and for the limit of things that can be displayed.. i might start a thread... "people are fools for building there own cabs! thats not authentic! use an old cab! thats authentic!

there are games that use vga monitors.. and tvs' so...

Popcorrin · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2004, 05:00:51 pm »

I guess I am confused, when u speak of playing a game in it's native resolution does it fill the entire screen or is it shrunk to match that resolution? Normally does mame use hws to fill the entire screen and does that mean all the games are being played at 640x480 or some other standard resolution. Is there a tutorial I could read that would explain this to a great extent?

Quote from: bosss7 on April 11, 2004, 12:43:52 am

OK well... ehm.. I guess I got a beef with arcade monitors as well. When the resolutions don't fit the screen properly. After about 3 months of tweaking like mad, I've finally managed to get it PERFECT yeasterday. Still shows black bars but I can play about 95% games in their native res. The colour settings came a day later.

I wasn't talking about a good arcade monitor. Good ones cost a fortune. Even my cheapass-ness won't let me get one. Dead cabs? Second hand arcade dealers, repair shops.

Still all the above is definitely worth it to have Rygar, rygaring away in it's near native res.

Use other windows APPS??? What are we building here? Hang on.
*stomp**stomp**stomp**stomp* *creak* *quiet* *creak*
*stomp**stomp**stomp**stomp**stomp*
Yep. It's arcade cabinets, not glorified computer cases.

JUST kidding. Heh. I' wouldn't mind a few NES games myself but for a few technical issues. One of them is I'm lazy.

Harry Potter · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2004, 09:49:57 am »

Quote from: Popcorrin on April 12, 2004, 05:00:51 pm

I guess I am confused, when u speak of playing a game in it's native resolution does it fill the entire screen or is it shrunk to match that resolution? Normally does mame use hws to fill the entire screen and does that mean all the games are being played at 640x480 or some other standard resolution. Is there a tutorial I could read that would explain this to a great extent?

Native resolution means the resolution it was designed to be played in. Means no stretching except for a few vertical games which have to be run in 800x600.

The resolutions aren't all fully native as there's no such thing as say 304 x 224 which a few neo-geo games use. All you do then is use 304 x 240 and turn off HWS. IF that's all you use on your machine, you can stretch the image out using the monitor controls to get rid of the black bars. Unless you use a mulitude of resolutions in which case you'll have to put up with the black bars.

And that's what PC monitors have on arcade monitors. Small thing but quite significant. Still worth putting up with some games looking like they were shot in widescreen.

Also to address a few other issues:
some might call yu a fool for using and arcade monitor due to the short life span it may ormay not have and for the limit of things that can be displayed..
So far all my other CRTs have outlasted my PC monitors. 3 dead VGA monitors, one of which was only 3 years old vs no dead standard CRTs all of which are second hand.

i might start a thread... "people are fools for building there own cabs! thats not authentic! use an old cab! thats authentic!
I said putting PC monitors into cabs is foolish (maybe a bit strong but...). If anything I'm impressed when people build their own cabs. It's when they ruin them with crap VGA.

there are games that use vga monitors.. and tvs' so...
VGA yes , multisync, not very often. Multisync monitors bring up the imperfection in 3D games too much, Standard monitors soften the image a bit. I'd like to see you try doing your homework on one of thos VGA monitors.

Bye

Ken Layton · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2004, 11:03:44 am »

Of course one should realize that commercial arcade game monitors are made to last and can be easily repaired. Look at how many Electrohome G07 and Wells-Gardner 4600 monitors (which are now 24 years old) are still operating and you can still get parts for them.

The average PC monitor is made to be thrown away if it breaks/fails. Some of the PC monitor manufacturers WON'T issue service manuals. Some have even gone out of business. Then if by chance you can get a schematic or a manual it takes you half a day just to take all the shields off the circuit boards just to take a look at it!

delta88 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 13, 2004, 01:22:25 pm »

ok, In the arcade we have a few units that have straight up vga monitors in them...
wernt the old wells gardner units based on tv's? along with going way back to the black and white untis.. I have a few.. time to compare. by no way I condone using a tv for someones prime choice of display. But we have a lot of card games .. picture machines that all use a good ol VGA monitor.. Now as far as urability goes neither are perfect.. In the bank of outrun 2's that are brand new .. one of the monitors are already shot.. along with the rush 2049's gone out twice...but yeah the older monitors do hold up for quite a while.... and it taking along time to uncase a vga monitor...if your slow.. bout an hour to decase and mount at most.. but hey everyone work habits vary

But anyways.. stop on ova fer a cold one...I'll see if you can guess which monitor is the vga outta a bunch.. I can adjust that vga to a body double for an ol arcade monitor..
Having used all the differant types of displays for mame playing a game of SFII looks the same on every monitor. its just a differance in chassis

Harry Potter · « **Reply #20 on:** April 13, 2004, 01:27:01 pm »

Bloody hell. Just saw your homepage. If I was in America, i could probably live in a game room like that.

Keep it up.

ashardin · « **Reply #21 on:** April 13, 2004, 04:10:47 pm »

I buy your argument if you are really referring to size vs. type. You are right, a small monitor in a big cab does look horrible.

And you are always going to get we VGA cab owners defending our choice as well. I have an old Taito 19" cab that I used a 21" VGA monitor. Due to the different ways they are measured it is just about the same size monitor as the original arcade monitor. So it looks very natural

I did it for flexibility, I can play mame, PC (including Golden Tee PC), and Jukebox all in the same cab.

Does it lose a little authenticity, yep. Can you argue with me about authenticity when we all run an emulator running off a PC crammed into an arcade cabinet, that point we will differ on.

Ghoward · « **Reply #22 on:** April 14, 2004, 11:28:27 am »

Arcade Monitor vs Crap VGA

Yes I have to go with that, I myself put WG9200's into the 2 cabs I have made.

However not everyone has the funds to do this so they have to do with what they have.

Gary


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