Arcade/Internet Kiosks

[IG-88]

What do you all think of this idea. I'm thinking internet access for the masses, with legal games on the machines. You could maybe even have PC games for that matter. Something like $2 for 20 min. of unlimited play or whatever. New games bi-monthly. I can build my own terminal(s). All networked together. Advertising. The idea's I have for this are endless.....

[voodoochile]

I believe Nolan Bushnel (of atari fame) is already doing this but for the life of me I cant remember the name of the company Oh its www.uwink.com

[abrannan]

I think your pricing is a little optimistic.  At best you're looking at $6/hr on these things.  For example, the local mall near me is charging $2000/month for a cart/kiosk.  If you put 5 machines here, and they were all used the full available time (10 am - 9 pm Monday-Saturday, 12- 5 Sunday a total of 71 hours/week) you're only clearing ($6 * 5 * 71) $2130 / week, which may not seem bad, but it's absolute best case, and you haven't paid for the systems yet, or the bandwidth.  And your best case scenario isn't going to happen.  More likely you'll have about 20%-25% utilization, or $400 - $500 per week, which won't even pay for your lease.  You'll also have to keep these machines up, which means a lot of replacement parts and vandalism cleanup, or people will stop using them.  


Compare to a $.50 fighting game's best case scenario ( 2 players playing at all times, winner stays loser pays, average time to complete -  1.5 minutes) which means you're looking at about $20/hr best case.  Arcades couldn't survive under this type of bast case scenario.

You need to look at arcade systems as a (and by god, I hate this term) "loss leader" to get people into the establishment and keep them there while they buy your high profit margin (alcohol, food, coffee, etc) items that keep you in business.  Pure Arcade/Internet Cafe just isn't a workable business model anymore, IMO.

But you could always prove me wrong, and I would be thrilled if you did.

[IG-88]

Thanks for your input and I agree with all you are saying. A few differences in what I'm thinking about is one, the lease. The spots I have secured will be non-lease. And while maybe not as high traffic as a mall, they are still pretty popular. I will pay a percentage of the bandwidth and give up a percentage of my profits. (both negotiable) Two, if I can offer a load of different options besides games and web access, ie; downloads or bill-pay or video calling ect. It may entice a wider audience.
The ROI with the hardware/software shouldn't be insurmountable. While everyone I can find sells thier machines for $3000-$5000 I feel I can build them at a quarter of that cost.
So.... what I guess I'm asking is would you drop a couple bucks in one of you had the time? If not, why? What would entice you to?

[Krynos]

I'm sorry to rain on your parade too... but, I don't think it it fly either...

When I was a kid, myself and my friends would look forward to going to the arcades. This was because the games were so much more advanced and better than anything you could get at home. Now though... arcade games, even the new ones arn't any better than what you can get on x-box, PS2, game cube, or even close to PC games. When you go to whats left of the arcade industry around here, what you see are games where you ride a surf board, sit in a car, ride a bike, ski --- interactive stuff --- because thats the only thing the arcades can offer that you can't get at home. The stand up machines are alone and unloved apart from by people like us, and thats not a big enough target audience by a long way. I'll occasionally play a classic for kicks on the original machine, but I won't spend much money as I have it at home. Kid's just arn't interested anymore, and I don't blame them to be honest.

Again all the internet cafes around here survive mainly via one revenue stream... bookings for LAN parties, and thats become less popular as faster internet is more widespread so you can frag at home, also networking equipment is cheap and easy to use now too, groups friends can set up quick and easy LANS and game away.

You plan is to offer internet kiosks / retro games. Pretty much everyone that wants internet access has it now, those that don't have it either won't use it, or more likely can find a free location to do so at friends or at work.

Bill pay? Would you use a public terminal to pay bills online? I sure a hell wouldn't... who knows what kind of information is being monitored. Plus if people want to pay bills online they would have to have accounts set up, if they know about that then the likelyhood is that they would have internet access already. Downloads? I suppose if you were in a predominantly dial up served area that could fly for large files, but if people want downloads, then they must have a computer, and you better be offering faaaaast downloads for it to be worthwhile. Video calling? who would they call? I don't know anyone with videophones, appart from webcam stuff, and thats still a gimmick and a regular phone is better IMO.

The problem is that we here, all have great memories of the 'good old days' but it's like trying to set up a company to sell buggy whips, it's just not viable anymore.

If you look at where video games are played publically, and where they may even be making money still, it's along side other services... Dave & Busters --- food, bar, games, pool etc. Chucky Cheese, food & games.

In town here there is a largish arcade that seems to be surviving, though it is 75% interactive games, 25% old style, it is also located in a complex just off the university campus, with a theater, starbucks, 30 od resturants, music stores, movie stores and the teenagers do hang out there. I'll tell you this though, even though it is at least 5 times the floor area, it is no where near as busy in there as starbucks... thats right a $3 cup of coffee has more appeal and value.

Now what could work... maybe could be a coffee shop (and it must be hip and trendy) with a LAN/internet room and retro gaming room, but still the order of profitablity would be Coffee, LAN bookings, retro --- and you'd have to offer free internet terminals I think to get interest and probably wifi.

However thinking about it more, figuring the mall cart idea, if you offered me a good cup of coffee (and I mean expresso creations etc, not drip!) with 10 minutes of internet and/or retro gaming for $3-$4... I'd be there during the hard slogs with the GF around the mall.

- Krynos

[Popcorrin]

Don't sugarcoat it Krynos, tell him what you really think.

[IG-88]

Don't sugarcoat it Krynos, tell him what you really think.

No, I want to hear all. This is why I started this thread in the first place.  

[IG-88]

Krynos, thanks for the input. Let me throw this at you:

Your quotes;

 Now though... arcade games, even the new ones arn't any better than what you can get on x-box, PS2, game cube, or even close to PC games.

You are right...PC games


 Kid's just arn't interested anymore, and I don't blame them to be honest.

Agreed. You need something that attracts the younger crowd. Especially if that was your main target, which I don't plan too target one crowd.

Again all the internet cafes around here survive mainly via one revenue stream... bookings for LAN parties,

One revenue stream, they should have multiple in my opinion.

You plan is to offer internet kiosks / retro games.

not only

 Pretty much everyone that wants internet access has it now...

Actually I've seen studies (which I could quote later) stating just the opposite...


Bill pay? Would you use a public terminal to pay bills online?

My better half works at a check cashing place part-time. This idea was purposed by her manager because the question is asked by customers all the time.

Downloads? I suppose if you were in a predominantly dial up served area

I am, and broadband ain't exaclty growing in the city either. The high price is actually turning people back to dial-up

that could fly for large files,

I was thinking along the lines of cell phone ring tones among a few other ideas

Video calling? who would they call? I don't know anyone with videophones, appart from webcam stuff, and thats still a gimmick and a regular phone is better IMO.

Ya, probably a gimmick, but I know of other kiosk networks that have this option, and it's becoming more and more popular.

However thinking about it more, figuring the mall cart idea, if you offered me a good cup of coffee (and I mean expresso creations etc, not drip!) with 10 minutes of internet and/or retro gaming for $3-$4... I'd be there during the hard slogs with the GF around the mall.

See, a few minutes of thinking and you had a good idea!

- Krynos

[abrannan]

Regarding bill pay:  I don't know about your area, but out here in DC you can walk into any public library and access the internet for free, all of my bills have the option to pay online without having to use one of those bill paying services, and even if there was one I couldn't pay directly, all of the major banks in the area offer some form of free bill pay feature through their website.  

So, asking someone to pay money for the ability to go online to use bill pay seems like taking advantage of the uneducated (but then again, so does a check cashing agency that charges %10 of the checks value).  But that's just my opinion.

Again, not knowing your area, but what may be a success for you is VoIP telephony.  Set up some IP telephones that will allow you call internationally cheaply, and if you're in an area with a large immigrant population, you'll probably have a good amount of success with this.  


The problem with any sort of public PC gaming (aside from legality issues, which can be dealt with) is that in order to offer a great experience (i.e. better than at home) you constantly need to be upgrading with the latest and greatest, which means probably upgrading your video cards every year (at $300 a pop to stay SOTA), and upgrading your processors every 18 months or so (I'd estimate close to $600 each for this).  Now perhaps you can work out a sponsorship deal with AMD and nVidia or ATI to make this work, but otherwise you'll slowly bury yourself under the pile of upgrade costs.  

But as I said before, these are only my opinions, and more power to you if you can prove me wrong.

[Krynos]

Yup I was thinking as I was typing with that post... but I stand by it!!  

The more I think about it, the more a cup of coffee, a pastry and a few minutes of net access sounds good to me.

It would be kind of like the starbucks thing, but without the "look at me I have a laptop with wireless" thing --- I do have a laptop with wireless, but I'll be damned if I'll use it in starbucks... the same way I hate making cell phone calls in public places.

- Krynos