Solenoid control ideas

[Bulliesrevival]

I am redoing my skeeball machine, I'm going to be removing the original controls and boards. I'm trying to see what ideas people have to control this solenoid for the ball release. I believe it runs on the full 110v's but with that part removed I'm trying to come up with
A) a way to run 110v to it and control it with a 5v system.
B) a way to release the balls using only 5v
C) some other method I'm not aware of yet

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[PL1]

I am redoing my skeeball machine, I'm going to be removing the original controls and boards. I'm trying to see what ideas people have to control this solenoid for the ball release. I believe it runs on the full 110v's but with that part removed I'm trying to come up with
A) a way to run 110v to it and control it with a 5v system.
B) a way to release the balls using only 5v
C) some other method I'm not aware of yet

First step is to verify what voltage powers the solenoid.
- It's probably 110VAC, but that circuit board next to the solenoid might be a rectifier and (12/24/36v?) voltage regulator.

The next question is do you want the release to be wired to a button or software controlled?

For button-controlled release, you may want to consider a time-delay relay where you press the button to trigger the relay long enough for the balls to roll past.  There's some useful info about time-delay relays in this thread.

A relay like this one would probably work for you with the correct voltage and the solenoid as the load.



For software-controlled release, I don't see any mention of a solenoid control in nipsmg's Major League Skeeball software thread here, but it might be supported or he might be able to add it as an option.   

If it is supported, you'll probably need a PAC Drive to convert the software commands to an output that controls some sort of relay.
https://www.ultimarc.com/output/led-and-output-controllers/pac-drive/

Depending on how the solenoid command is implemented, it will produce either a short fixed-length pulse or a longer variable-length pulse.
- For a short fixed-length pulse, you will need a time-delay relay.
- For a longer variable-length pulse, you can probably use either a regular relay module or a time-delay relay.


Scott

[Bulliesrevival]

Man Scott you are everywhere with the answers I need, ha ha ha.

I'm thinking simple is better, that time delay relay you posted is probably the perfect one once I verify the voltage.

The circuit board next to it actually doesn't directly attach to the solenoid. It does attach to the bulb that is at the ball release. The solenoid connector goes directly back to a main harness connection on the control board, which is what has me thinking it's 110v. Going to try to research those solenoid numbers and this brand to try and find out.

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[Bulliesrevival]

Found something similar when searching it up

https://www.grainger.com/product/DORMEYER-Solenoid-120V-AC-4X241

Looks like it is a 110v solenoid. So that should make this easy using the delay relay. Thanks Scott.  I owe you a cup of coffee lol. Keep this up and it will be a case of beer ha ha

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[PL1]

Glad to assist.   

Part of the reason I'm hedging my answers a bit is that I'm not certain which manufacturer/model Skeeball game you have.

If you have a Skeeball Model S or Model H, the solenoid is described as a "4x240", which is pretty close to the Grainger part number you linked to.
- If you need to replace the solenoid, pretty sure you can find better prices on Amazon.  Looks like this solenoid is also used in some wood-burning stoves.


Scott

[Bulliesrevival]

Glad to assist.   

Part of the reason I'm hedging my answers a bit is that I'm not certain which manufacturer/model Skeeball game you have.

If you have a Skeeball Model S or Model H, the solenoid is described as a "4x240", which is pretty close to the Grainger part number you linked to.
- If you need to replace the solenoid, pretty sure you can find better prices on Amazon.  Looks like this solenoid is also used in some wood-burning stoves.


Scott

It's actually neither of those. It's the elusive "superball". I say that tongue and cheek due to the complete lack of info for these machines. I did find that they switched to Fab. And there's one person out in the world that posted the hand written manual for Fab, I gave up trying to figure out what's wrong and moved to my current "just make it work with new stuff" decision lol

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[RandyT]

The circuit board next to it actually doesn't directly attach to the solenoid. It does attach to the bulb that is at the ball release. The solenoid connector goes directly back to a main harness connection on the control board, which is what has me thinking it's 110v. Going to try to research those solenoid numbers and this brand to try and find out.

The chonky black and white wires makes me think 110v, but it's safest to look at where they connect and trace through any components.

The way these machines worked, at least from memory, is that there was a ball counter on the dispenser side.  Some of the county-fair skeeball trailers only had a couple of balls in each machine.  After the ninth ball, it would start trapping them in the return.  That light bulb was the light source and that little black thingy hanging down into the chute was likely a photodiode of some sort.

Something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/315583676659 could be set up to replicate that function, using your own switches, and they are pretty cheap.  But that is based entirely on the description of operation, so that's for you to decide .

[Bulliesrevival]

I was able to get a jz-801 solenoid to work perfectly. I used the PC USB slots for the micro USB port to run the board. Then another USB slot where I took an old USB charger and cut off the end to just get a 5v and ground. Ran the 5v directly to the control side of the board then used the USB ground to a 2 wire setup that goes to the button I mounted to release the balls.  The JZ board is set to 3 seconds so when you press it all 9 balls can roll past then the relay closes to stop them from coming back down. If I ever get into the programming side, like I want, this option gives me the option to add control into the PC.

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[RandyT]

A timer will work....until some crud gets stuck on one of the balls or debris finds it's way into the chute, causing slower travel or a slight blockage.  Or, if you don't always have 9 decent balls.  Probably not that important to worry about for a home machine with all good balls, but in any unattended environment, it's better to have a counter.  That way, a returning ball can dislodge a lightly stuck ball, without needing to notify an attendant for getting too few shots.  I've played a lot of these machines over the years and have seen how they can fail and what they do to recover...when they are able to.

Even better for a home unit is to just not bother with stopping them at all.  Your scoring software counts the shots taken, so physically limiting the number of balls available is really just cosmetic.  But I can see the appeal of both approaches.

[Bulliesrevival]

My youngest is 8 I'm worried about pinched fingers lol

[RandyT]

My youngest is 8 I'm worried about pinched fingers lol

That's a good reason to meter them out.  The normal angle of these things makes the balls return at a reasonably slow speed, but the carnies like to increase the angle to make them more difficult.  I don't even like to put my hands into those until I know it's safe