New lightgun plug-and-play system

[Tarma]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tasseidenki/gaime-plug-and-play-time-crisis-gun-system-for-modern-tvs

Saw this plug-and-play system the other night and thought folks might find it interesting. It uses a new technology that doesn't rely on IR sensors, etc.

It only comes with 4 games (Time Crisis, Point Blank, and Steel Gunner 1-2) for now though it looks like they plan to make more games available in the future.

Probably nothing anyone here is going to run out and get but neat anyhow.

[danny_galaga]

That's really neat. And licenced which means a bit of a stamp of approval 😎

[lllll44]

no slider recoil, no option to play other pc game freely, look like a cheap plastic, we dont know how the ai accuracy thing really is, pricy....yep, its a big NO from me.

[TapeWormInYourGut]

It's a product for people who want to play those specific games, and only those games. It's not a product for gun games in general or for emulation. I'm assuming that it as accurate as a Sinden lightgun which also uses a camera.

It's not for me, but they have a lot of backers. If you only want those 4 games then it's probably good enough.

[m64mrk]

Despite me not being a customer for it, these casual turn key solutions help more people get into the hobby and make it accessible - especially if these ever hit retail shelves and get plenty of eyes on them. A decent amount will want more after and learn about other options. Much like A1Up has brought more people in who've transitioned to original hardware or full size modded cabs. I think it's a good thing in general and creates more aftermarket options down the line as well for all of us.

[RandyT]

Despite me not being a customer for it, these casual turn key solutions help more people get into the hobby and make it accessible - especially if these ever hit retail shelves and get plenty of eyes on them. A decent amount will want more after and learn about other options. Much like A1Up has brought more people in who've transitioned to original hardware or full size modded cabs. I think it's a good thing in general and creates more aftermarket options down the line as well for all of us.

IMHO, this is the optimistic view.  It doesn't usually play out that way. After seeing how this site has declined since the introduction of the A1UP cabinets, where those "less than" offerings have taken on a life of their own, that is probably not the case.  Many who are attracted to them actually think they are getting the full experience when they aren't.  This pulls them into an alternative "sub-ecosystem" where it becomes about those particular units, rather than the more authentic experience.  It's not always the case, but if that was happening overall, it would have caused a "boom" in sites like this one, and that hasn't been the case.  As a result, we have a whole generation of players who think they have experienced something authentic, many of whom who have become disinterested due to shortcomings.

Poor experiences don't lead to more interest and are more likely to lead to abandonment.  So if more engagement is what you are hoping for, one should probably hope that this offering provides solid performance at least marginally on-par with what the PS1 and a GunCon could offer with a CRT.  Otherwise, it's likely to do more harm than good with regard to bringing new light-gun players into the fold, especially if it's only good enough to hold temporary interest or to be considered a nostalgic curiosity.

Blank white walls behind screens and disclaimers mentioning "casual experiences" are giving me a bit of cause for concern, but I'm waiting for the reviews to see how well it holds up.  Maybe they have some tricks up their sleeve which aren't being shown yet.

[m64mrk]

I'd expect general engagement to naturally decline over time as people of a certain age have had their years of fill with the hobby and are onto other things, but more so there's really not enough "new blood" to replenish the open spots. Someone born in the late 90's/early 00's just don't have that experience that we had of going to a location to play the premium experience of a game, the industry had a shift and their memories were on capable systems like the PS2 with online play.  You can see this with other hobbies where interest/pursuit have peaked and other sectors have picked up. A generational shift. I also feel things in life have just generally changed in the past few years and we feel like "where did the time go today". I'm certainly less engaged in forums than I used to be - more distractions, junk social media, fb marketplace doom scrolling, to take us away.

I think people quickly know that a child sized arcade cabinet with weak controls is not the same as a full scale commercial arcade cabinet. If they have a bad experience on a 1Up then I don't think it would turn them off from owning a full sized cab - rather those who want it will pursue it. Others just don't want 300lb monoliths in their house - we're a niche group. Likewise I know a few people who went straight into buying full scale originals and they didn't last over 1.5 years before selling - it was just a fad, not for lack of experience. It was just like the treadmill in the bedroom for them - a fancy laundry hanger. I think it takes a certain type of person to own a full scale in the home and to continue using it. I don't get too amped up when my friends say "I want an arcade machine", because I know it won't reach far past the honeymoon phase - I typically try to recommend a solid full scale multicade for variety sake.

The G'AIME isn't enthusiast grade. It will capture the casual market and is accessible. Many will fad out over time as there's only so much you can do in that rotation - maybe it will be moddable. But it will be nostalgic curiosity for sure for many. And if that's good enough for them, then I can't argue. I do see a spillover of those wanting more and learning about other options like Gun4IR or Blamcon. I think it will create a small gateway, but better than never introducing anyone new. Those who exit were probably just in for a quick fix to begin with and happy leaving it at that.

[RandyT]

Old timers were already hooked as they were "spoiled" from using the real hardware.  The problem getting new faces into the hobby is the quality of the mainstream retail "bait".  It's understandable, as quality parts can be costly, and people tend to gravitate toward the cheapest and easiest path.  This often leads to a different eco-system where form trumps function and/or without a proper frame-of-reference, poor conclusions can be drawn by the user with regard to what they believe they have experienced.  A simple analogy is someone who claims to dislike sushi because they got it at a gas-station once and it wasn't good.  So unless that individual is already motivated to experience good sushi, they are more likely to just avoid it...actively.  Poor experiences push people away, not toward.

I also highly doubt that this gun setup can be modded for use elsewhere.  I'm just guessing, but the gun is most likely a combo (USB?) device consisting of a camera and some buttons, with the processing occurring in the box itself as part of the rest of the code.  There doesn't appear to be a "gun out" of any sort to do something more with.  The only remote possibility would be the USB-C port that the unit uses for power, but unless it is a full-port (i.e. not just a power port) and there is a debugging mode one could activate somehow, it doesn't seem likely.

Note that I'm not saying that this unit isn't good or won't deliver on it's promise.  There's no way I can know one way or the other.  But it's mere existence isn't necessarily going to have a positive effect on the genre.

[m64mrk]

For me, I see it in the same vein as other simulation equipment.

A Logitech entry level steering wheel (say g29/g920 or even a lower model) is at a level where people can afford to get into it - they easily sell the most in terms of volume because of cost of entry, marketing, accessibility.

People will take either path of: be happy with it for their budget and keep it, not use it anymore just due to lack of general interest, or use it as a stepping stone to later upgrade to more expensive equipment like a $1000 direct drive wheel bundle because they're enjoying the hobby and want to dig deeper and shave times. Few start off with direct drive equipment as they're new to the hobby but they understand there are more options there. If they enjoy it with entry level equipment, they will research on what else is out there and why it costs more, eventually upgrading. I knew my first sim wheel was entry level and I was perfectly fine with that - it would be stupid to drop $1000 without knowing if I was going to stick to it in the real world. I got years of use from it then appreciated the next level.

Same goes for the people I'm friends with who started with A1Up cabs and now have exclusively full scale machines and pinballs. It got them into the hobby, they upgraded things like buttons and controls. But they knew that the big cabs were at the next level and they eventually transitioned. I'd be hard pressed to believe that almost 1/2 of the demand for joysticks and buttons part sales aren't coming from people with those types of products.

This is my experience with how entry level items have a place. People will know limitations of a starter unit - they will either settle and be happy with it (unless someone wants to pay for an upgrade for them), naturally fad out because it was just filling curiosity, or if they're serious and enjoy repetitive use they will want to take it to the next step with better equipment. I don't think there's a blanket reason why people do or don't go for what we consider the "true" experience - niche and cost for entry is usually the case. I think if you give up on something without looking at what other options are then it wasn't really that deep of a pursuit - a lot of people I know who say they want an arcade machine at home, aren't in it for the long game of arcade ownership, just looking to scratch an itch for a period of time as a novelty.

[RandyT]

This is drifting well off-topic, but the G29 and G920 are well-reviewed wheels by aficionados, so that's kind of apples and oranges.  But you are making my point with that.  To foster further interest, a certain specific level of quality and performance is necessary.  Even though I already had great interest in racing games, the level of quality in many of the early mainstream retail offerings put me off the idea for over a decade.  It wasn't until I reached that point of quality/performance that it took my interest to the next level, which is when I built a dedicated racing sim rig with custom motion actuators that I designed and built myself.

If this light-gun offering is the arcade shooters analog to the Logitech g29, then it will be a winner.  I hope it will be, for the folks who might be expecting as much.

[m64mrk]

The g29 has effectively been around for almost 20 years as it is just a second iteration of the g25 with absolutely marginal changes, the majority of them being compatibility with new consoles that came out. Hardware wise, the wheel has been there since 2006. (Speaking from ownership experience).

My point is, if someone is serious about pursuing wanting to play lightgun games but started on a sub optimal setup, I don’t think their response is to quit. They would probably google “what is the best pc light gun”, instead and go from there. If they’re not serious about it, then it’s just that, a causal curiosity and just a stop along the road.

Plenty of new people in the hobby go from A1up to full scale and original cabs because it’s what got their attention at a big box retailer, and they had no enthusiast level knowledge in the beginning - those were things that evolved over time be it with upgrading components or realizing they wanted to reach the next level. Much like the time crisis kit will have people wanting more break into the hobby because they want to get a better experience beyond what they got. If people are wanting more, they’ll do the research and learn what’s out there.

In no way do I think A1up killed forum engagement. Forums, have been on the decline for years as people have shifted their attention to other platforms. Typically a place where specific questions are asked and with the rise of things like Google AI search summaries, people are not even clicking on webpages anymore.

No bad blood at all, just friendly discussion, I think we just have differing takes from what we both see through different lenses.

[TapeWormInYourGut]

I agree that people who are looking to re-experience the arcade magic will be disappointed, but would probably get through their nostalgic itch. Everyone else will consider this a gimmick or won't really enjoy the games since they're pretty dated. Maybe some will keep pursuing, while anyone new will think that they had a proper experience and probably wouldn't have enjoyed this enough to keep searching.

It seems more comparable a 4-in-1 game console to me, or an X-in-1 depending on your package. Similar to those cheap fisher price consoles marketed to children. Their Kickstarter page even says that the base version only comes with their Time Crisis port and can NEVER be upgraded to support more games, nor an additional gun.

Once the core Kickstarter audience has their fill, I suspect that sales will dwindle and so will development support for more titles. They have 4.5k backers, but how many would buy upgrades after playing the limited selection of games on their tv? My guess is not very many. And not many new-comers after.

[RandyT]

The g29 has effectively been around for almost 20 years as it is just a second iteration of the g25 with absolutely marginal changes, the majority of them being compatibility with new consoles that came out. Hardware wise, the wheel has been there since 2006. (Speaking from ownership experience).

Lol.  I'm old enough that I experienced gaming on a brand new PONG machine and 10 cent pinball.  My first steering wheel attachment was the Turbo wheel for the ColecoVision and I own wheels for PS1 and Dreamcast.  I didn't even try the XBOX 360 wheel until I found a marked-down unit that was priced too good to pass up.  It wasn't until that unit that I had an experience which was positive enough to re-ignite the flame, which led to PC and Fanatec.

The same happened with lightguns.  It was the GunCons which were responsible for prolonged engagement, because they could meet that level of quality and performance.  Had they not had the "killer-app" of Time Crisis behind them, I might not have even given them a chance due to the poor performance of all the lightguns I own which came before.  In fact, it could be argued that the GunCons saved the entire genre due to the much better experience they delivered.  Players who played these titles in the arcades, likely also ended up with a GunCon on a PS1 at some point.   My feeling is that most who backed the project are hoping for a mainstream solution to the flat-panel problem so they can experience the games they grew to love on their modern displays. Taking that into consideration, this new offering has some big shoes to fill, even from the standpoint of nostalgia.  If it falls short of that, it's likely to leave a "bad taste in the mouths" of new players, which would be unfortunate because solutions exist which don't.  They just require a bit of learning and effort.

But again, this is just philosophical and everyone is different.  It could meet expectations and satisfy the "target" audience (whoever that might be.)  But the aficionados are likely going to be the most vocal about their experience, so that has the innate probability of serving to drive away new casuals if it falls short.  It will be interesting to see, one way or the other