Driving games and Jamma/Pandora’s box etc

[redfivexw]

I have an empty pole position cabinet, planning on wiring Jamma and wondering how the steering wheel interfaces with a Pandora’s box or other board. The shifter seems like a standard on/off switch, probably the gas pedal as well, also wondering what wires would go to the wheel (left and right?), pedal and shifter. I imagine just trial and error could solve this but if anyone has done it appreciate the help.

[Mike A]

It interfaces really well with a Pole Position or Pole Position PCB.

No modifications necessary.

If you really want to run a ---smurfy--- emulator in it there is a Raspberry Pi solution.

There are more details at KLOV. I can try to dig up a link.

Some dude made a Pi interface for the Pole Position cab and you can play other racing games with it.

[PL1]

wondering how the steering wheel interfaces with a Pandora’s box or other board.

You would need a board that can interpret the quadrature waveform (mouse/trackball/spinner/360 degree wheel) outputs from the optical circuits of the wheel.
- Connecting the wheel's data lines to microswitch joystick inputs will not work.

When you slowly move the wheel, you should see each data line alternate between logic high (near 5v) and low (near 0v) as the encoder wheel turns, blocking and un-blocking the optos to generate a quadrature waveform like this.

wondering what wires would go to the wheel

There will be 4 wires:
- 5v
- Ground
- Data A
- Data B

If the axis is backward (i.e. turning the wheel right moves the cursor left), swap the data lines.


Scott

[leapinlew]

The shifter seems like a standard on/off switch, probably the gas pedal as well, also wondering what wires would go to the wheel (left and right?), pedal and shifter.

The pedals are pots, right? I had a driving cabinet, and my pedals were on/off microswitched and that doesn't work well for most driving games. Being able to push the gas to 50%, 75% of most driving games is crucial. No big deal for Off Road or Super Sprint.

[PL1]

The pedals are pots, right?

The Pole Position upright cab has only one pedal.  The sit-down cab has two pedals.
- The upright and sit-down cabs both have a potentiometer gas pedal.
- The sit-down cab has a microswitch brake pedal.

See pages 44-45 of the manual here.

To interface with the Pole Position cab controls, you'll need a PCB or encoder(s) that can handle three types of inputs.
- Optical (mouse) inputs from the wheel.
- Analog (potentiometer) input from the gas pedal.
- Digital (microswitch) inputs from the shifter, coin door, and (if you have a sit-down cab) brake pedal.

The other thing you'll need to deal with is that the Pole Position optical board is an "active high" device, but most optical encoders are "active low" devices.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,156286.msg1641780.html#msg1641780


Scott

[lilshawn]

Being able to push the gas to 50%, 75% of most driving games is crucial.

SPAZBUCHANAN! if you ain't floorin' it, you ain't winnin'. you either go, or blow.

[redfivexw]

There is an encoder wheel with optic board on the back of the steering wheel, would this work? I’m actually thinking maybe a red optic board from a happ trackball Might be better.

[PL1]

There is an encoder wheel with optic board on the back of the steering wheel, would this work?

That green board looks like the original "active high" optical board.

You would either need an optical (mouse) encoder that can handle "active high" devices or you would need to make an adapter to change it to an "active low" device or you could use a Happ red board.

I’m actually thinking maybe a red optic board from a happ trackball Might be better.

It is possible to install a Happ red board on a Pole Position wheel, but no idea how easy or difficult it is to do this mod.   

I installed the redboard into the steering wheel.

Since the red board is "active low" you can use it with almost all optical encoders and it is also less likely to have trouble with backspin like some older boards such as the Happ green boards.   


Scott

[Mike A]

https://www.arcadeshop.com/i/1758/pi-position-multigame-kit.htm

They are temporarily closed, but I heard they are going to reopen next week.

No need to rewire the cab.

[redfivexw]

The cabinet is empty, I have no wiring at all. Hence why I am looking to put something else in. If the cabinet had its guts, I would not be doing this

[redfivexw]

I will install a red board happ to the wheel. I understand how to power them and how to modify the bracket to fit. Not sure about the gas pedal though.

[Mike A]

You are still better off with the Pi Position.

Wire it up and play all the driving games you want.

It does exactly what you want to do without any dinking around.

[redfivexw]

The pi position is designed to plug into the original harness, I don’t have the original harness. How does this help me?

[baritonomarchetto]

That pi position thing is highly overpriced: 200 dollars for a PCB with more silkscreened area than components is absurd...
True is that actual commercial solutions are not compatible with a project like this, especially if you are planning to keep the CRT.

I had to develop a custom board to help a friend of mine complete his own project (buggy boy junior cab convertion). The board used is described HERE (instructables).

At the time of the instructable writing I had not completed the code for my friend's project, but now it is available online HERE (github).

[Mike A]

Instead of wiring it for JAMMA, you could wire it for the Pi Position.

Then you could always swap in a real PP board down the line.

You can go the JAMMA route and all of the other junk these guys are talking about. That is fine too.

Just keep in mind that these custom cheaper solutions are almost never completed, and are almost always way more difficult than people will let on.

[baritonomarchetto]

There's no "junk" here: only alternative solutions to convert a racing cabinet. For sure any approach has its advantages and disadvantages. What about being forced to use a 16 years old MAME release vs a more recent one? A big drawback if you ask me...

[Mike A]

Don't get your panties in a twist.

I could have just as easily used the word stuff. Go watch the George Carlin bit about ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- vs stuff.

You know very well that there are tons of threads started by people who try to go the custom route and never finish. If he has the techn
ical background for all of that then great. I hope he can pull it off.

[redfivexw]

If I had access to the guts of an Atari pole position, the harness and Brick, etc I would do it. Unfortunately since pi position came out there is nothing much out there for parts anymore. I am suggesting Jamma because it might be doable. I don’t need a lesson on original vs emulation , I have restored dozens of games. I am not a software guy, but I want to save this cabinet. Looking for options/experience, not arguments

[PL1]

Not sure about the gas pedal though.

The gas pedal uses a potentiometer so you'll need an analog encoder like a U-HID, an A-Pac, or a 32u4 series Arduino like the Pro Micro with an analog gamepad firmware. (KADE miniArcade 2.0, baritonomarchetto's analog firmware that Vee21 adapted in this thread, etc.)

The wiring is very simple.
- Wiper on the middle tab provides the voltage to the encoder input port.  That voltage is determined by where the contact touches the resistive element.
- 5v and ground on the two outer tabs -- swap them if it is working in the opposite direction expected.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Analog_Encoders#How_a_potentiometer_provides_the_voltage_for_an_analog_encoder_to_measure



You should also consider connecting the shifter as a gamepad button on your analog encoder so you don't have the problems that can be caused by a keyboard encoder constant keypress if the shifter is left in the switch closed position. (boot error due to "stuck key", navigation in FE, etc.)


Scott

[redfivexw]

I have used the iPac before, and the Apac looks similar so I think I would use that. So, if I wire the pot as shown above, then connect that and the shifter to the apac, then does the red board happ board from the wheel also connect to the apac? Also, once the apac is populated, can it be connected to a pc or pi or whatever and easily configured? The last time I did any work with any emulators I used hyperspin and also gameex. This was years ago, been mostly real arcade hardware since then.

[PL1]

I have used the iPac before, and the Apac looks similar so I think I would use that. So, if I wire the pot as shown above, then connect that and the shifter to the apac,

Yes.  Here's the A-Pac wiring example from Ultimarc.

then does the red board happ board from the wheel also connect to the apac?

No, it does not.  The A-Pac does not handle optical (mouse) inputs, only pots and microswitches.

You would need an optical (mouse) encoder as well as an A-Pac . . .
    or
. . . if you want everything on one Ultimarc board you could use one of the U-HID boards.
- If you aren't good at crimping Dupont pins, you can use M-F Dupont jumpers and euro-style terminal strips to connect wires from the controls to the U-HID.   

Options for a separate optical encoder include Opti-Pac, I-Pac2, U-HID, OptiWiz 3, or an inexpensive Arduino with a mouse firmware.

Also, once the apac is populated, can it be connected to a pc or pi or whatever and easily configured?

Yes, the A-Pac and other USB encoders that I've mentioned will be very easy to connect to a PC or RasPi -- they're USB.      

The configuration will be very easy on a PC, but might be a little harder on a RasPi depending on the front end and emulators you use.   


Scott

[redfivexw]

I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I see ultimarc has a uhid nano that is small and inexpensive. It says it has only 8 I/o, but that should be enough for my application. I will need to read up on that board. I have a few old pcs lying around, I think I may go that route.

[PL1]

I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I see ultimarc has a uhid nano that is small and inexpensive. It says it has only 8 I/o, but that should be enough for my application.

Yes, 8 I/O pins plus a ground pin. (9 pins total)

Based on what you've posted in this thread like you'll need pins for:
- Ground
- 5v (split to power both the steering wheel optical board and gas pedal potentiometer)
- Data Line A (steering wheel)
- Data Line B (steering wheel)
- Analog wiper (gas pedal pot)
- Shifter microswitch (configure as a gamepad button)
- Coin microswitch (configure as a gamepad button or keystroke)
- Exit button, assuming you want to run more than one game on this cab  (configure as an ESC keystroke)
- One other input for whatever else you want/need based on your game list . . . you have already compiled a game list, right? (step 2 of the design process in the FAQ's What type of build meets my needs? section)

Which FE are you going to use?
- Depending on which FE you choose, you can probably navigate using the steering wheel to move up/down and press the gas pedal to launch the game.
- Howard made the Checkered Flag FE.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141041.0.html

I have a few old pcs lying around, I think I may go that route.

Sounds good.   


Scott

[redfivexw]

I have not made a game list, as long as Pole position works then I’ll be happy. If after I get that working I can add other games that would be great. I ordered the UHID today, will post back here with questions and results as I have them. I will have to spend some time looking at front ends and what is currently the most supported option as I have been out of it for a while. Thanks for the links. I’m not too picky, basically whatever’s easiest to set up and does the job is good enough for me.

[baritonomarchetto]

Get the way you feel more confortable with: you have to start from somewhere! 
Maybe I am missing one important point though: what about the monitor? Are you planning to keep the CRT?
You shold consider this fundamental aspect in this planning phase, in my opinion...

[redfivexw]

Normally I am crt all the way, but I am going to run an lcd on this one. I want to simplify this one as much as possible, plus I think the racing games will present decent on the led.

[baritonomarchetto]

Ok. I don't think that low res racing games are decent on an LCD (not even close), but I can get your point when you say that you want to keep this project as simple as possible to complete. Keep the CRT close, anyway, because you will gain experience fast and will be forced to re-consider the LCD solution soon

[JIMYZ]

Did this project get completed? I'm trying to do the same thing with the U-HID NANO got the steering working but can't get the Gas or the shifter to work. There are no instructions with the NANO and not much online. I'd be grateful for any help