Hantarex 25" 15-25-31-38 Khz and ArcadeVGA...strange problem...

[hal9000]

Just got a brand new Hantarex 25" 15-25-31-38 autoswitch this morning and I've been playing with it all this afternoon. I have a  problem and I would like to ask you if you can please help me a little...

when switching between various res at 15Khz (I use an Arcade VGA) the picture is shifted from right to left, this is very bad because if I set the picture center on a certain resolution, this will not be good for other resolutions, that means changing games in MAME will produce a shifted picture often (to left or right). The image is OK, is not a phase or flickering probelm, the picture is just shifted to left or right and I need to turn the potentiometer on the board for each resolution to get the correct horizontal picture alignment/center. The veritical align is ok and does not need this adjustment...

Do you have any idea on how to fix this problem? Is really bad because I can not use this monitor in my arcade cab if I will not find a solution...on the old one (hantarex 15Khz) I do not have this shifting problem, once I set the center, the monitor keeps it for all res.

Can you please just try to explain in a few words how the left border position of the picure is decided (or determined) by the monitor? I know there is sync signals that should provide this info but how the monitor decides that at 320x240 the picture starts let's say at 1 inch from the left of the tube and 420x288 it starts at 3 inches instead?

Tnx, Alex

[menace]

is there any way to just fix the frequency at say 15 or 25?  then the arcadevga could handle each resolution from a standard position?  Just a thought--I'm sure someone will be able to give you some more ideas.

[hal9000]

Thanks, anyway the above problem regards various resolutions all at 15Khz, not switching from 15 to 25 BUT switching from a res at 15 Khz to another at 15 Khz.

[krick]

Correct me if I'm missing something here but didn't you say that you have a 25" Hantarex monitor that can do 15-25-31-38KHz?  If so, why are you using an ArcadeVGA card at all?  You would get much better results by hooking it up directly with a VGA cable from a "normal" video card.  Search for posts on the Wells Gardner D9200 as it does 15-25-31.  I think you'll still have to program in the specific game resolutions becase MAME seems to be really bad at picking the right ones.  Anyone with more experience here want to comment?

[hal9000]

Yes krick, the monitor can handle all the freqs but in order to get the 'real' feel on most games (older games used to run at 3..x2..) avoiding 'hardware stretch' that cause artifacted blurred pixels I must switch to 15Khz often. Pheraphs I can explain better: I'have a PC with WinXP and MAME32. I switch between each MAME games with a frontend I've made in VB6 (640x480). I can launch Daphne games (640x480) using the same frontend. Now, for MAME I need 15Khz on most games, this is done by MAME32 itself. For others games including the frontend I need 31Khz in order to get flicker free 640x480 picture. At this point I need a card that can handle 15 Khz and 31Khz. This could be done by twaeking a 'normal' video card, but the ArcadeVGA does it better, I tested also a Matrox card and another one but the results were not exactly good. Notice that I've connected the arcadevga to the monitor using a standard VGA cable, since the moniitor provides this connection. Finally the problem is not switching between 15 and 31 but doing it between various 15khz res. Think as you have a PC monitor, you set the center and whidth of the picure and then it remembers the settings at various res, correct? Now the arcade monitor  has ony some pots to do this so it can not 'remember' the settings for each res and I have to turn the pot for about each resolution. The 'strange' thing is that with the older arcade monitor (Polo 15 Khz) I had no problem like that, so I was wandering the reason of this and if there is a workaround...

[Minwah]

Yes krick, the monitor can handle all the freqs but in order to get the 'real' feel on most games (older games used to run at 3..x2..) avoiding 'hardware stretch' that cause artifacted blurred pixels I must switch to 15Khz often. Pheraphs I can explain better: I'have a PC with WinXP and MAME32. I switch between each MAME games with a frontend I've made in VB6 (640x480). I can launch Daphne games (640x480) using the same frontend. Now, for MAME I need 15Khz on most games, this is done by MAME32 itself. For others games including the frontend I need 31Khz in order to get flicker free 640x480 picture. At this point I need a card that can handle 15 Khz and 31Khz. This could be done by twaeking a 'normal' video card, but the ArcadeVGA does it better, I tested also a Matrox card and another one but the results were not exactly good. Notice that I've connected the arcadevga to the monitor using a standard VGA cable, since the moniitor provides this connection. Finally the problem is not switching between 15 and 31 but doing it between various 15khz res. Think as you have a PC monitor, you set the center and whidth of the picure and then it remembers the settings at various res, correct? Now the arcade monitor  has ony some pots to do this so it can not 'remember' the settings for each res and I have to turn the pot for about each resolution. The 'strange' thing is that with the older arcade monitor (Polo 15 Khz) I had no problem like that, so I was wandering the reason of this and if there is a workaround...

Yeah you're right, to get the best from your screen you must use an ArcadeVGA (or at least get a video card to output at 15khz).

I understand the problem you're having, all I can think of is does the monitor have a PC-monitor-like On-Scree-Display menu?  I wondered if the pots control the general size/position, but is there an on-screen method of setting size/position which would be stored for each mode?  I believe this is what the D9200 has, I'm not familiar with your screen tho.

[hal9000]

Thanks Minwah, unfortunately the Polo does not have an onscreen menu or somthing like that to interact to. The only way you can change the picture is using the pots. I've spoken with Hantarex personal yesterday and they confirmed there is nothing to do inside the monitor hardware to override this situation. They say this is a price to pay for having auto switch between 15-25-31, since the electronic is more complicated compared to the old Polo 15Khz and there is a different hardware that hook sync input signals... not a good news...I can also understand the difference in price between the D9200 and this one (I've payed 280 Euros for this Polostar, brand new from Hantarex Italy here in Milan) I guess the D9200 is not so cheap...but does it really have an OSD on board?

[b3atmania]

Thanks Minwah, unfortunately the Polo does not have an onscreen menu or somthing like that to interact to. The only way you can change the picture is using the pots. I've spoken with Hantarex personal yesterday and they confirmed there is nothing to do inside the monitor hardware to override this situation. They say this is a price to pay for having auto switch between 15-25-31, since the electronic is more complicated compared to the old Polo 15Khz and there is a different hardware that hook sync input signals... not a good news...I can also understand the difference in price between the D9200 and this one (I've payed 280 Euros for this Polostar, brand new from Hantarex Italy here in Milan) I guess the D9200 is not so cheap...but does it really have an OSD on board?

I also have an 25inch Hantarex Polostar. Some obeservations:

- You can get around most of your problems the if you make custom video modes with AdvanceMAME. You can create custom modes in AdvanceMAME from a single centered reference mode. This way you won't have to center the image every time you change game.

Note that you will need to make a centered reference mode for 15, 25 and 31kHz. This means you will still need to center and sync the image if you change between 15, 25 or 31kHz modes, but you won't need to center the picture if you stay with 15kHz modes or likewise if you stay with 25kHz modes.

- About your wish for an OSD. Sure an OSD is nice, but it limits the range of the settings you can make. The dynamic range of potentiometers far surpasses anything OSD controls could ever provide.

Also, Hantarex sells an extension cable for the monitor controls of the Polostar. If you get this cable you can put the controls in a convenient place so adjustment won't be a pain anymore.

[hal9000]

Wow, thanks b3atmania! I'm gonna try AdvanceMAME and let you know... Just a question, should still use ArcadeVGA with ADVMame or will have to go for another, let's call 'standard', video board like Matrox? Thanks again, Alex

[b3atmania]

Wow, thanks b3atmania! I'm gonna try AdvanceMAME and let you know... Just a question, should still use ArcadeVGA with ADVMame or will have to go for another, let's call 'standard', video board like Matrox? Thanks again, Alex

Yes, you can use the ArcadeVGA with AdvanceMAME. Basically AdvanceMAME will program the chipset registers of the video card directly bypassing the pre-defined settings in the BIOS.

[AndyWarne]

What this means is that the Polo Star is not a true milti-scan monitor, unfortunately. I was thinking of getting one but won't now.
A true multi-scan such as the D9200 stores the sizing and picture shift info PER MODE in memory rather than storing one setting for all modes.

[hal9000]

Yes Andy, guess you're right... I've sent you an e-mail about this (I'm Alex, from Italy). I'll keep you updated with my progress, if there will be any...and can you ask to Hantarex UK about this?

[hal9000]

Just another thing I've forgot. Here at Hantarex in Milan they told me that the autoswitch function should not be made 'on the fly', but is rather a solution that allow you to change the game system inside the cabinet without having to change the monitor too. Notice that in order to avoid some autosync problems (the picure was getting out of sync often when switching between 15 and 31) I had to manually cut a diode on the mainboard (they told me wich one!). Anyway they say that they never had a problem like this since normally this monitor is placed in a cabinet with a dedicated hardware (eg. Naomi) and does not need to be switched once powered...This thing does not appear the monitor brochure, anyway...