General resolution/vector questions.

[Witchboard]

What is a good resolution to use when creating side art for a cab?  I know with vector graphics it really doesn't matter since you can change the size of those without the problems of pixelation.  Is there anyway to convert someting to a vector graphic?  It seems that vector graphics don't have many colors.  Is there a color limitation to vector graphics?

[Stingray]

There's no color limit with Vector. There are a few programs, like Adobe Streamline that are supposed to be able to convert to vector, but I've never had any luck getting good results this way. The only way to get nice results it to hand trace the graphics, which can be very time consuming.

300 dpi is a good resolution for non-vector art.

-S

[zorg]

What is a good resolution to use when creating side art for a cab?  I know with vector graphics it really doesn't matter since you can change the size of those without the problems of pixelation.  Is there anyway to convert someting to a vector graphic?  It seems that vector graphics don't have many colors.  Is there a color limitation to vector graphics?

as far as I remember 300 dpi should be enough

regarding your question about s there anyway to convert someting to a vector graphic?
there's some tools around , that allows you to automagicaly convert bitmap to vector, but  I would say that such tools don't provide quality stuff. you can use it to vectorize some simple pieces. but don't think about doing the whole stuff using them.

there is no color limits in vector graphics. it's just a matter of work you are ready to involve in the graphic.
if you are ready to draw some path at the pixel scale, you can produce as much effects as you want.

but keep in mind when you design your art, that it has to be looked/seen at a certain distance. usualy you'll the art look at say 50cm / 1m. is the red pixel visible ??

[Witchboard]

So if the original image is not 300dpi but you convert it that way, you just cross your fingers and hope for the best?  I guess if it could be vectorized then it wouldn't be a big deal.  Thanks for the help guys.

[Frostillicus]

I echo what the other guys said - and just want to add that in my experience doing sideart at 300dpi may be too much.  But only from a hardware perspective -  I just finished a set of sidearts that are 30in x 55 in each.  At 300dpi that would be a majorly large photoshop file, especially with a lot going on in terms of layers.   My computer is okay, but it just can't handle something like that - I don't want to wait 20 minutes to apply a blur filter  So I usually use 150dpi if they are that large.   There's not much difference in the final outcome.  

And of course I advocate hand tracing for the highest possible quality

[Witchboard]

Hmm.. well, the image I am wanting to use for sideart is at 200dpi.  The problem is when I stretch it to the size I need it won't it still blur and pixelate?

[mahuti]

A quick primer on DPI, etc.

What everyone needs to know is that regardless of the measurments, you need a reasonable IMAGE DEPTH for good printing. An 80inch x 90inch file at 72 DPI that is scaled down and printed at 8x10 is going to have a lot of image depth. The DPI when it's scaled down is effectively much higher than 72DPI (unless it is resampled rather than scaled down).

DPI is Dots per Inch. So if you have something at 200 dpi that's 8 x 10, raising it to 30 x 55 is going to effectively reduce the available dots per inch to something like 35 dpi. Photoshop does bicubic resampling when you upres or downres by default, so it will automatically "blur" the lines to make up for the loss of actual DPI -- tries to fake the additional lost DPI. If you would rather it "pixelate" than blur, you can choose "nearest neighbor" in the resample drop-down when you resize.

The short answer is,... it is difficult to upres artwork effectively. There are a few tricks to upres stuff, but those tricks don't go very far. You need proper image depth to begin with, or you are going to be in a hurt when you are ready to print.  The DPI argument depends somewhat on the output. If you print a billboard, the DPI might be 45 or 55 DPI ... no one is going to notice when you are 100 yards away. When you are 5 feet away, not many people are going to notice the difference between 72 DPI and 200. At a foot or 2, it's really noticeable.

As far as vector art... there is an unlimited color palette. HOWEVER, it is difficult to convert smoothtone artwork with what is basically mathmatical plotting of points. If you want to vector trace art originally done with an airbrush, or trace a piece of art with very smooth color transitions... it's going to be time consuming. It can be done, but only by hand. Streamline gives it the old college try, but many times it creates so many paths, the art can't be printed on a normal printer easily.

To sum up. If you start with master art that is at-size and 300 DPI, your final product has a better chance of excellent printing than if you start with a low-res sample. If you can, I recommend vector... you don't have to worry about DPI, and the artwork can be modified, shared, manipulated MUCH easier in the future.

[Witchboard]

Sounds like I'm in trouble then. ^_^  My image is no where near the size I need it and only 200dpi.  I guess I could attempt to convert it to a vector image, but here's the important question...  What program can I "trace" this image in?  By trace, do you mean using one of those digital drawing pads or can you layer it like in photoshop and just trace with the mouse?  Sorry for my ignorance on this subject, but until I get the funds to start working on my cab I can always work on other aspects.  Thanks all for your help.

[Stingray]

Trace in this context means to open the image in Illustrator (or whatever software you're using) and drawing the paths over it with your mouse or other pointing device.

How about if you post this image you're talking about. Some of us may be able to give you some pointers on how to proceed.

-S

[Witchboard]

Can you do that in Photoshop or will I need Illustrator to make vector graphics?

I'll post up the original pic and what I'm looking at doing when I get home tonight.  A picture with less colors would be better than one with more, at least in ease of converting to vector, correct?

[mahuti]

Can you do that in Photoshop or will I need Illustrator to make vector graphics?

Depends on the version of Photoshop. The last few versions have been able to create paths, but the output will still be raster. (stuck with DPI) You could copy the paths and paste them in illustrator, but if you had illustrator, you could just use that to start with.

As far as the word "trace" goes. We mean using illustrator's bezier curve pen. The pen tool makes it possible to plot points as angle points or curve points, and adjust the length and aspects of individual curves. With the bezier pen tool, you could plot a circle in 2 points; a top point and a bottom point. You could plot a square with 4 points, triangle with 3, a square with rounded edges with 8 points, or a galaga marquee with a few hundred or more. If you get handy working with the pen tool, you can create very tight mechanical drawings, logos, or detailed vector artwork shapes. It's hard to explain with words. If you see someone doing it in action, you would quickly understand the process.

[Witchboard]

Ah, so what was said about the colors, you would have to do that for each one?  That would be difficult.  Below is the Image I've picked out to try and use as my side art.  Unfortunately I can't give the original artist his props for creating it.  I found it with google search and it was downloaded from USENET.  I'd like to see more of his work, so I'm still looking.  Yes call it sacrilage puting a Capcom logo on a SNK cab.  But I'm making it so  .  Actually, the SNK logo I made has WAY too many colors to be vectorized by somebody with my limited/no vectorizing abilities, but I'll slap it up just so you can see what I'm talking about.  Any input on the difficulties of tracing these images for vector graphics?

[Witchboard]

SNK

[mahuti]

Someone with determination, and experience could do a pretty good vector version of those images.

If you were really in love with the 'gradient mesh' tool, you can do some pretty crazy stuff. See attached images. I did these with illustrator & the gradient mesh tool about 4 years ago. These aren't in the same style as what you are looking for, but you can get some very sophisticated vector effects with that tool.

Just gotta be careful. Some companies can't output the gradient mesh stuff very well. If that's the case, you can convert it to raster artwork (but your original can still be scaled, etc)

[mahuti]

One more. Man, I haven't pulled these files out of the archives in a LOOONG time. Just painful to look at... but I guess they're kinda cool.

[Witchboard]

Wow.  Those look great.  Were those traced or originals?  I guess when I think of vector graphics for some reason I think of images with very limited colors.  Maybe because many don't want to take the time.  Is there anyway you can cheat when tracing?  Like in Photoshop you can do a selection by color then could you do a color fill or something?  I've never used Illustrator before, so please forgive my ignorance.

[mahuti]

Those were originals. And the only way to "cheat" with vector is to use something like Streamline (another application) but the results are very rarely useful for what we need in this hobby.

When you learn how to use the pen tool, you will be surprised how quickly you can make trace an image.

[zorg]

I guess when I think of vector graphics for some reason I think of images with very limited colors.  Maybe because many don't want to take the time.

yes

and also because  most of the stuff does'nt so much colors gradients effect.
anyway as you look familiar with photoshop, you can import the vectorial files in photoshop (scale it as you want) and do the color modification / effects you whish.

Is there anyway you can cheat when tracing?  

short answer no.

Like in Photoshop you can do a selection by color then could you do a color fill or something?  I've never used Illustrator before, so please forgive my ignorance.

grab the Frostillicus turorial
and give a try to illustrator.

[Witchboard]

So Adobe Illustrator is everybodies suggested program for vector graphics?

Thanks for the link Zorg.  I'll give it a gander.

[zorg]

So Adobe Illustrator is everybodies suggested program for vector graphics?

Thanks for the link Zorg.  I'll give it a gander.

it seems
I use it as I learn with the frosty tutorial. I'm a good student i use the tool the master tell to use
 
you can also give a shoot at sodipodi

[Witchboard]

Another helpful link.  Thanks again zorg.  Have you used sodipodi?  How does it compare with Illustrator?  I'm sure that it doesn't have all the features considering it's free and Illustrator is probably hundreds of dollars.  But does it have all I need for just what I'm wanting to do?

[Stingray]

All I get is an error on that page.  

-S

[Witchboard]

Which link?  The Sodipodi or the tutorial?  They both worked for me.

Oh, and that tutorial rocks.  That should be easy for me.  I have to trace a lot in photoshop to apply masks anyway.