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Author Topic: I'm Having Trouble With My PC to Monitor/TV Setup  (Read 2333 times)

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Dyslectric

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I'm Having Trouble With My PC to Monitor/TV Setup
« on: January 14, 2017, 12:46:30 pm »
[Nvidia Geforce 7300gs] [Insignia 24" CRT from 2006] [Sony Trinitron KV-27] [Gateway EV910]

So I have been wanting to make a MAME setup for a while, but I have quite a dilemma on my hands. So I have been looking into connecting my pc to a 15khz tv for a while (2 weeks) and I bought an Nvidia Geforce 7300gs card and ended up buying a D-Sub to Component cable.

I started with trying to connect the PC to a TV (a Standard Def Insignia CRT from 2006 and a Sony Trinitron KV-27 TV)  just using S-Video. This worked... kinda. While it would technically connect to the TV... and show video... it glitched A LOT, and the video did not cover the whole screen. The resolution was set correctly and all but whatever, I didn't have soft15khz installed before that.

So I installed Soft15khz to the S-Video port and I thought that this would solve the problem and allow me to use 240p on the tv. Once I restarted the PC, the video filled the screen more (both models) and 15khz resolutions were available, but when I selected 240p and similar resolutions, the TV did not like it and displayed a highly glitched up and multiplied desktop. When I tried opening Nvidia control panel windows said that it stopped working (so this may be a driver problem). I decided to get a d-sub (not vga as that would be a signal and an incorrect one at that for my use) to component adapter.

After buying the d-sub (not vga) to component adapter (cable) I received it in the mail and rushed up to muh game room and plugged it into my PC and into my Insignia CRT (because sadly my trinitron does not have component support. Liek if you cri everytim) and booted the pc only to find the acer splash screen to be highly distorted and out of sync and freakin purple. I looked into it and found that the vga out (which I thought supported component as well) would only output progressive signal... so I plugged it into my lcd only to find that the PC was probably outputting vga signal because my lcd didn't like it either (so much so that the tv told me that it was an incorrect signal).

So after all this, I decided to try plugging the PC into my Gateway EV910 VGA CRT Monitor to see if the 15khz resolutions would even show up on the vga output (and they did). So now I am confused as to how I should handle this. Does anyone know of any good Nvidia Drivers that are specifically good for arcade gaming/outputting 15khz? Does anyone know how to tell the gfx card to output component (and yes, it has been said before that the 7300 gs is compatible with component)?

I really need your guys' help with this. Cuz right now I be like  :badmood: :banghead: :angry: . So yeah... thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 12:50:09 pm by Dyslectric »

buttersoft

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Re: I'm Having Trouble With My PC to Monitor/TV Setup
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 08:29:32 pm »
That post is kinda confusing, but, as I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are trying to:

  • Connect a PC to a 15kHz CRT, and the CRT will take a YPbPr component signal

I don't understand some of what you're saying, so bear with me:

Interlaced and progressive are both possible via VGA. And D-Sub is VGA: it's just the name for the HD15 DB15 connector used by PCs, and as regards video output it always has the same pinout. Your cable is just a cable, not a converter. And now that that's out of the way...

I started with trying to connect the PC to a TV (a Standard Def Insignia CRT from 2006 and a Sony Trinitron KV-27 TV)  just using S-Video. This worked... kinda. While it would technically connect to the TV... and show video... it glitched A LOT, and the video did not cover the whole screen. The resolution was set correctly and all but whatever, I didn't have soft15khz installed before that.

The mini-din port of a GPU can only output S-Video at 15kHz 480i (i standing for interlaced); it's a hardware limitation, I think. BUT it will take any signal fed to the primary outlets of the GPU, 1920x1080, 1024x774, etc, and turn it into 480i. So it will always work, but it always works wrong. It doesn't matter what resolution you set, the scaling is horrible, and even resampled 480i-to-480i is meant to look awful. Installing Soft15kHz to this port, something I didn't realise was possible, won't do anything good. If everything else is right, it *might* let you specify a 240p resolution, which it will then interlace and feed out as 480i. (I'm honestly not sure how you're seeing multiple side-by-side images via an S-Video cable, if that's what's going on.)

I have no idea if the 7300QS supports component though, sorry. I'd imagine it's done in the Nvidia driver/CP. Maybe someone else can help with that. Assuming, for the moment, that you can get a component signal out of your machine, and the hardware doesn't try to scale anything (look into this first) you may run into another serious problem...

So I installed Soft15khz to the S-Video port and I thought that this would solve the problem and allow me to use 240p on the tv. Once I restarted the PC, the video filled the screen more (both models) and 15khz resolutions were available, but when I selected 240p and similar resolutions, the TV did not like it and displayed a highly glitched up and multiplied desktop. When I tried opening Nvidia control panel windows said that it stopped working (so this may be a driver problem). I decided to get a d-sub (not vga as that would be a signal and an incorrect one at that for my use) to component adapter.

After buying I received it in the mail and rushed up to muh game room and plugged it into my PC and into my Insignia CRT (because sadly my trinitron does not have component support. Liek if you cri everytim) and booted the pc only to find the acer splash screen to be highly distorted and out of sync and freakin purple. I looked into it and found that the vga out (which I thought supported component as well) would only output progressive signal... so I plugged it into my lcd only to find that the PC was probably outputting vga signal because my lcd didn't like it either (so much so that the tv told me that it was an incorrect signal).

So after all this, I decided to try plugging the PC into my Gateway EV910 VGA CRT Monitor to see if the 15khz resolutions would even show up on the vga output (and they did). So now I am confused as to how I should handle this. Does anyone know of any good Nvidia Drivers that are specifically good for arcade gaming/outputting 15khz? Does anyone know how to tell the gfx card to output component (and yes, it has been said before that the 7300 gs is compatible with component)?

The colours being purple is a classic sign of an RGBHV/YPbPr mismatch. You are inputting the wrong signal type to the display, or the display is set to one rather than the other. It might depend on what cable you were using. If you plug in the LCD via your new VGA-to-Component cable, the LCD does not get any sync signal.

If you're ever seeing a side-by-side double image on a 15kHz standard-definition screen, you're trying to feed it a 31kHz/480p signal. The sync circuitry is only fast enough to catch every second pulse-interval, or just decides that's what you're trying to do. If you see three images, it's 45kHz. It works with the PC display because you're outputting a standard VGA 640x480p 31kHz signal. And that is because your Nvivida drivers won't do 15kHz. You can install Soft15kHz, and then set a resolution, but the driver ignores you and goes for the closest (lowest) allowed mode. This is impossible to get around under windows without a dongle. That's a pass-through that plugs into the VGA port with an EDID chip in it. That chip looks like a real monitor to windows, and it tells the GPU it's ok to output 15kHz and bypass the in-built driver limitations. Your regular video cable plugs into the back of it, as normal. (That dongle won't work with up-to-date NVidia GPUs, though I'm not sure where the cutoff is.)

I'm not aware of an Nvidia driver that will do what you want. It's probably not impossible, it's just not in the drivers, save for the Quadro cards.

If you can't get the card to output YPbPr, and do it right, you'll need a VGA-to-Component transcoder/converter box. And after that, if you're going to spend the money on one of Sailorsat's dongles anyway, which is the cheapest option if you keep your current card, I'd get a second-hand 5000 or 6000 series HD Radeon card instead and use crt_emudriver. That's even cheaper, and it will do what you require.  (You'll need the converter box either way, I think.) Look under the GroovyMAME forum up above to get started. If you want to, you can put up a post describing what you want to do - i.e. plug an SD CRT into your PC via component video inputs, to use as a second screen while the primary PC monitor is still connected.

GroovyMAME itself is a parallel build of MAME that works immaculately with 15kHz CRTs. There are some straightforward guides here - http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewforum.php?id=2. Just remember to use the newest guide on that list for the card you have, if you go that way :)

I hope this helps :)

EDIT: Your PC CRT won't sync at any lower than 31kHz/480p, unless you've found documentation that indicates otherwise, so if you do get things working for 240p don't plug it in. It's sort of ok to do so for testing, but it doesn't do any good to leave older CRT's plugged into sync they weren't designed to handle.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 12:36:19 am by buttersoft »