VMMaker 2 - Games Off Centre on Vertical

[ReelTechnoFreek]

Hi Calamity,

Just wondering can you clarify something for me please.
After updating to VMMaker I notice that all my games are positioned downwards on the vertical. Horizontal position looks fines. Screenshot attached which hopefully explains it better.

I understand that software can't control the vertical size, but I thought groovymame tried to position the image on the vertical centrally.

I'm on windows 7 with super resolutions. I've attached vmm.ini, mame.ini and a game log for reference.
 Any advice or recommendations to tweaks in settings would be much appreciated.

Thanks a million

[Calamity]

I understand that software can't control the vertical size, but I thought groovymame tried to position the image on the vertical centrally.

It does, but you first need to manually find the exact vertical back porch value of your monitor.

The image being positioned downwards on the vertical means your current VBP value is too big.

crt_range0 31400.00-31500.00,49.50-65.00,0.940,3.770,1.890,0.349,0.064,1.017,0,0,400,512,0,0

Try reducing that value step by step until you find the sweet spot.

[ReelTechnoFreek]

Thanks Calamity,

I have edited the monitor.ini file directly but it doesn't seem to have made any change.

My desktop is positioned correctly it is just groovymame that is downwards. Would adjusting that monitor info not affect both desktop and groovymame?

It is as if changes I make are not being registered.

Thanks

[Calamity]

mame.ini

[ReelTechnoFreek]

mame.ini

D'oh!

Will try that and let you know how I get on.

[Calamity]

Or...

Just edit in in monitor.ini, check the option "Export monitor settings to GroovyMAME", and finally, create and install the modes (this allows to keep VMMaker and GM in sync).

[ReelTechnoFreek]

Or...

Just edit in in monitor.ini, check the option "Export monitor settings to GroovyMAME", and finally, create and install the modes (this allows to keep VMMaker and GM in sync).

Hey Calamity, thanks. I've tried this but I must be missing something as I am seeing no change. Its worth noting that different games are producing different positions on the vertical.
For sf2ce above it is a little off. The mortal Kombat games seem to center reasonably well however for tekken it is considerably off with the image pushed well down with a large black border only at the top.
Yet my desktop remains perfect.
Tekken screenshot below and log attached.
Thanks!

[Calamity]

Your GroovyMAME is still using the default arcade_31 preset, as you can see in your log.

[ReelTechnoFreek]

Well that was weird. Even though I have groovymame exe location set in vmmaker it wasn't writing changes as you rightly said about my log.
Repointed the exe again and I can start to see changes.

I presume when you referred to sweetspot in an earlier post you mean, try find a VBP value where the majority of games sit nicely rather than one value where every game will be perfectly centered?

I have tested a bit and found that dropping the VBP to circa .800 gets a nice position for a lot of games - capcom, neo geo etc

But for tekken I have to drop it really low, circa 0.400 but then obviously the above games are too high!

One thing I just noted though is that using arcade_31 preset I get about 18 modelines but there is a gap from 2560*480 to 2560*768. The likes of mk2 look for 512 but groovy is defaulting higher - 768.

Mk2 log attached.

Thanks again calamity

[Calamity]

I presume when you referred to sweetspot in an earlier post you mean, try find a VBP value where the majority of games sit nicely rather than one value where every game will be perfectly centered?

Well, once you find the right values, ALL games must be perfectly centered on the vertical. The problem is, you also need to adjust VFP probably.

I'll try to explain how it works.

You need to find the absolute minimum values for both VFP and VBP. You don't have to be scared about setting them too low: GroovyMAME will pad each porch with extra lines when required in order to keep the right frequencies so it doesn't break your monitor. GM will add the same amount of lines to each porch, so both borders grow by the same proportion and this is what guarantees vertical centering.

The problem is when the predefined minimum value for VFP or VBP is too high. When this happens, one of the borders will always be bigger than the other. Even if GM tries to add the same padding to each border, the starting point of one of them is already too big, and GM can't know this. This is something you need to determine by testing your monitor.

Instead of using random values, always use multiples of a line time. In order to calculate a line time, divide 1 / Hfreq:

1 / 31.500 = 0.032 ms

For VFP is usually usually just fine to set 1 single line:

VFP = 1 x 0.032 = 0.032 ms

In the case of the arcade_31 preset, VSP (Vertical Sync Pulse) uses 2 lines:

VSP = 2 x 0.032 = 0.064 ms

Now the tricky value is VBP. What this value measures is time your monitor's beam takes to travel from the bottom of the screen back to the top of it. This time depends on the monitor's electronics, age, etc. For a 15 kHz device this value is usually the equivalent to 16-18 lines. For a 31 kHz device (or a multisync 15/25/31 kHz) this value is much lower. Let's say that, in your case, it was around 13 lines (you need to check this):

VBP = 13 x 0.032 = 0.416 ms

So, your crt_range would be:

31400.00-31500.00,49.50-65.00,0.940,3.770,1.890,0.032,0.064,0.416,0,0,384,480,768,960

You'll know your VBP is too low when you start seeing artifacts on the top of the screen: compression of lines, retrace lines, etc. If you set a VBP value that's too high, extra lines will end up adding to the top border of the screen, pushing the picture down.

------------

Finally, regarding mk and 512p, edit your crt_range (VMMaker) this way:

31400.00-31500.00,49.50-65.00,0.940,3.770,1.890,0.032,0.064,0.416,0,0,384,512,768,960

[ReelTechnoFreek]

Thanks Calamity for taking the time to write such a detailed response.

I will need to read this a a few times I think.

What I find odd is that on the old vmmaker I used arcade_31 preset and I didn't have this issue. And in fact my monitor has a preset (m3129) and trying that now I still get the same vertical problem.

Actually as I type this, it was a modified version of arcade_31 I used in the past before vmmaker 2, from cools guide. This format looks different though as the crt_range seems to have 12 variables whereas the new presets have 14 from what I can tell. Can you advise how to align so I can test this also? Thanks again

    monitor_specs0 31400-31500, 49.50-65.00, 0.940, 3.770, 1.890, 0.349, 0.064, 1.017, 0, 0, 512, 800
    XresMin_XML = 512
    YresMin_XML = 400

[Calamity]

What I find odd is that on the old vmmaker I used arcade_31 preset and I didn't have this issue.

The config you had on old VMMaker is irrelevant because GM always overrides that with its own settings. So there's no point it porting old monitor_specs to current format (anyway you can see how it's done here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.0.html). In other words, whatever you were getting previously was a consequence of mame.ini, not vmmaker.ini. And for the same reason, those settings should still apply to current GM, regardless the version of VMMaker you're using (the good thing about VMMaker 2.0 is you can use the same settings in both VMMaker and GM, making everything simpler).

(Anyway, if the problem you mean is not having 512p, then, sure, you won't get it with default arcade_31 preset and VMMaker, you need to apply the changes a posted above in order to get it).