Best way to display video on a Sony KV-36XBR400?

[nipsmg]

I recently acquired a showcase cab that needed a 36" monitor.  I was able to find, for free, a Sony Trinitron FD KV-46XBR400 that does 480i, 480p, and 1080i in 4:3 (the 1080i has black bars, obvioulsy).   I'm trying to find the best way to output 480p ideally to the screen from Windows/MAME.  I'd like to run a fairly powerful PC in the cab, so an AGP video card is probably out I'm assuming.

Any ideas?

[burn_654]

I think your best looking results are going to be using the following:

-A computer running a crt_emudriver compatible AMD/Radeon card
-Some form of vga to scart cable or adapter such as the UMSA http://arcadeforge.net/UMSA:::15.html
-An rgb scart to component ypbpr transcoder such as this: http://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCART-Component-Converter-Genesis/dp/B004XSSDPO (I can't speak for this specific one but I know people having great results with very similar gear for console rgb)
-GroovyMame installed on the pc.

It might be a little bit of a hassle, but the quality will be very good. Rgb to component will have almost no quality loss and with crt_emudriver and GroovyMame and you'll be able to run your arcade games in the native resolution and refresh of the original game - getting a very authentic look.

[nipsmg]

VGA -> SCART -> COMPONENT is better than HDMI -> 480p component with something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/E-More%C2%AE-Component-Converter-Supporting-Coaxial/dp/B00QTIYMQ0/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1460378897&sr=8-20&keywords=hdmi+to+component ?

I know scart is direct RGB used in UK/EUR TV Sets, but not so much in US sets so I never even thought of looking in that direction. I'd love more people to weigh in on this as well or more opinions, but this is definitely something I am going to research today. 

[burn_654]

Well I mention the vga-scart-component signal path for a few reasons:

HDMI is usually fixed at 31khz resolutions (480p) and above for all converters out there. While this would indeed be ideal for a game running in native 480p like modern consoles/pc games, most arcade games are originally at much lower 15khz resolutions for instance 240p.

Now you could set Mame to output at 480p and it would work, but you'd be losing out on the native sharpness of the original resolution, and possibly inducing some lag/tearing due to stretching the resolution up. By all means if you're just looking for it just show up and be playable hdmi is an option. It depends how much of a stickler you are. 

Where VGA comes in is as so: it's technically an analog RGB signal at 31khz. Through proper drivers (such as crt_emudriver) the vga port on a Radeon can actually send a 15khz RGB signal. This 15khz RGB signal can create a wide variety of low resolutions and refresh rates - a game that was originally 240p can now be sent to the monitor as a native 240p game with no resolution stretching or blurring. Old arcade games mainly used 15khz RGB so they will look very authentic. Arcade games back in the day mainly used this 15khz RGB type of signal over bare wiring.

So where scart comes in is: Europe and the UK's scart cable can carry 15khz RGB just fine (in fact this was how many people were hooking up game consoles there.) The Scart converter I linked to transcodes that 15khz RGB signal from a Scart plug into Component without altering the resolution - component can actually be made from an rgb signal with some minor circuitry so it's not so much converting as transcoding.

So for example with a 240p game -

HDMI:
240p game > Your computer/mame resolution output over HDMI > scaling that into 480p component with the hdmi to component box (scaling may affect the quality) > game is now 480p, quality may vary greatly especially with diff. converters

VGA/RGB:
240p game > 240p computer output over vga, now possible with special drivers > simple vga to scart cable/adapter > rgb scart to component converter > game is still in 240p, no stretching has occurred and no resolution conversion has occurred, game is razor sharp.

Hopefully this clears a few things up for you? Feel free to ask questions 

[nipsmg]

This actually makes perfect sense to me, no matter how badly I for some reason want to not believe it. 

So I need to find a PCI-E crt_emudriver compatible video card with VGA out.  Do I need the expensive $50 converter scaler, or would something like this work just as well if I am not trying to convert the signal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER-/220833672632

[burn_654]

This actually makes perfect sense to me, no matter how badly I for some reason want to not believe it. 

So I need to find a PCI-E crt_emudriver compatible video card with VGA out.  Do I need the expensive $50 converter scaler, or would something like this work just as well if I am not trying to convert the signal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER-/220833672632

Sorry for the delay on this one -

The adapter you linked won't work because no actual signal conversion/transcoding is actually happening there. A bunch of adapters like that one exist for say, projectors, which would use one port such as vga or scart and you could tell it via a menu exactly what kind of signal you were sending through it. That adapter itself is totally passive.

[nipsmg]

That's ok..

So one final question on this.. Is there no way to just do the VGA -> Component with a card outputting 15khz without the Scart middle step?  (I already bought the scart adapter and a cable.. but just wondering..)  If not, why not?

[SailorSat]

Two rather simple reasons.

VGA or rather RGB uses three pins with each a pure color signal (red, green, blue), as well as a seperate sync signals.

Component uses only three pins with a different color space (Y, Pb, Pr). Also the Y-Signal contains a C-Sync signal on top.

Although it is possible to do a "sync on green" mode with most VGA cards you will still have different color spaces and end up with "wrong colors".

[nipsmg]

One more question... 

The AMD/ATi card I bought does component out through a DVI->Component dongle.  I have no idea how that will work with CRT_EMUDRIVER, but assuming it works, any reason to not use that over the SCART solution?

[burn_654]

So typically the component/tv output of cards like that is going to output a fixed resolution in the end. You can tell windows to output let's say, 1024x768 and no matter what, it will probably be outputting that 1024x768 scaled into 480i, 480p, 720p etc. (that final resolution will depend on the card/available driver settings.) For better or worse those kind of outputs are designed to be 'dumb' for the end user and scale to that resolution so that the majority of content would work with your tv. It may not look *too* bad - I remember using some emulators a long time ago over s-video to a crt and it was ok, but not great. In my case no matter what I set the windows resolution to, it was scaling the end product to be 480i for the tv.

I don't believe crt_emudriver is able to fully manipulate a component output like it can the vga - the vga is more 'open' so to speak to being given custom resolutions and timings. Thus using the vga port to drive a correct arcade resolution with crt_emudriver, and converting that result to component (as long as the proper resolution is maintained) will give you a more accurate appearance.

In terms of general ease of use plugging in just the component may be easier to try, and if it looks good enough for you, don't let us stop you from using it! You just won't be able to use the benefits of the exact game resolutions/refresh that groovymame can offer.