ATI Radeon 4350 question with Windows 7 ..

[JoeB]

Interesting, I'll try some other videos.  I noticed that a lot of other things kind of "break" when DXVA is globally turned off.

- Windows Media Play 11 (SP1 default) works but if your system is up to date on security patches, it ships with WMP 12, and it complains that it can't find CODEC
- VLC Player fails playing.  You need to go into options and set output to Windows GDI driver and it starts working correctly

At the end of the day, this is a dedicated PC inside a New Astro City arcade machine.  As long as MAME and Hyperspin works, I'm done.

Does MAME use DXVA!?

[haynor666]

That reminds me that I didn't check SFIV movies on fresh windows 7 install with HD5450 and HD4350.

[Calamity]

Interesting, I'll try some other videos.  I noticed that a lot of other things kind of "break" when DXVA is globally turned off.

DXVA can't be turn off globally. What you're turning off is DirectX hardware acceleration, which basically lets your system unusable (similar to using the default VGA driver).

DXVA stands for DirectX Video Acceleration, and only applies to video. It's a very problematic feauture, that's been prone to bugs even on unpatched drivers. If only it was possible to turn it off.

In modern PCs it's really not necessary and CPU usually does much better, the issue being that some software doesn't allow falling back to software rendering.

I know this is preaching in the wilderness, but there's a certain frontend that's getting in the way of many of you.

[JoeB]

There's a simple reason for it. 

Every MAME cab maker has to choose the lesser of 2 evils for their use case:

- A robust, feature full, flexible FE that was cleanly developed - but looks like it's from the early 90's (developers make poor graphic artists)
- A beautiful, easy to setup,  eye candy FE that is poorly coded (artists make poor developers)

Going back to my original question:

- Does MAME use Direct X Video Acceleration?

[Calamity]

- Does MAME use Direct X Video Acceleration?

Nope.

[Calamity]

That reminds me that I didn't check SFIV movies on fresh windows 7 install with HD5450 and HD4350.

I did test it and it worked great with my HD 5450, tested it again now with the HD 6540 and it's crashing  .

[JoeB]

I understand the advantages (and disadvantages) of using ATOM-15 along with CRT 2.0 and GroovyMame..

For those individuals that decide to use ArcadeVGA with GroovyMAME, and use the Ultimarc drivers, they will have much more limited number of resolutions, possibility of image tearing (due to possible mismatch of refresh rate), etc.  But putting this aside, and just focusing on the driver.  The Ultimarc driver will work in regular Win7 x64 (non-test mode) and DXVA should work perfectly, correct? Is this because the driver is signed by Microsoft or ATI?

Is it possible to pay to get CRT 2.0 drivers signed as well?

[Calamity]

The Ultimarc driver will work in regular Win7 x64 (non-test mode) and DXVA should work perfectly, correct?

No, it has the same issue, check this:

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/topic/6731-arcadevga-5000-not-working-in-hyperspin-freezes-up/

Is it possible to pay to get CRT 2.0 drivers signed as well?

I already tried that, I'll tell the story some day. Kernel code signing certificates are only issued to registered companies or organizations. I couldn't get one as an individual.

The whole code signing certification is just a big load of crap. And the best part is that these certificates are no longer valid for Windows 10. Now you need to send your drivers to M$ directly to get them signed by them. Imagine the process: "Hey sirs, I'm Mr. Calamity, I hack AMD drivers to allow 15 kHz modes".

[haynor666]

That reminds me that I didn't check SFIV movies on fresh windows 7 install with HD5450 and HD4350.

I did test it and it worked great with my HD 5450, tested it again now with the HD 6540 and it's crashing  .

So the only way to get this game working is right now use official ATI drivers with VMMaker or Soft15kHz :/

[JoeB]

Calamity: According to Ultimarc, he provides Windows 7/8 32 and 64 bit drivers.  If that's the case (especially for 64 bit), then M$ must be signing them for him!  How did he pull that off??

If he is using signed 64 bit drivers for Windows 7, than I assume that mp4 playback in Windows media Player should have less issues as well.  The link you provided is for Flash (FLV) playback.  HS has since been updated to play mp4 files.  The days of FLV playback in HS are finally DEAD (thank god!).  If an mp4 can play in Windows Media Player, it will play in HS.  If it can't play in WMP, it won't play in HS.  The 2 are now linked.  Can't blame HS anymore. 

[Calamity]

So the only way to get this game working is right now use official ATI drivers with VMMaker or Soft15kHz :/

No no, it was working for me the other day, I should have recorded a video as a proof.

I spent a few hours with Windbg and the damned thing, and it turned out it was trying to set 1280 x something, I patched the binary to set 640x480 instead and got it working. But today I was trying the same binary on a fresh installation and it's not working anymore.

[Calamity]

Calamity: According to Ultimarc, he provides Windows 7/8 32 and 64 bit drivers.  If that's the case (especially for 64 bit), then M$ must be signing them for him!  How did he pull that off??

Windows 7/8, NOT 10
It's with W10 when the kernel code signing method has changed.

If he is using signed 64 bit drivers for Windows 7, than I assume that mp4 playback in Windows media Player should have less issues as well.  The link you provided is for Flash (FLV) playback.  HS has since been updated to play mp4 files.  The days of FLV playback in HS are finally DEAD (thank god!).  If an mp4 can play in Windows Media Player, it will play in HS.  If it can't play in WMP, it won't play in HS.  The 2 are now linked.  Can't blame HS anymore. 

Flv or mp4, it's still the same issue. You can blame HS for not providing a fallback software method. Anyway, my main objection to HS is that it's arguably beautiful

[JoeB]

experimented some more with DXDIAG and directx.cpl today.  Here are some interesting observations (confirmed via dxdiag in Windows 7):

- directx.cpl only effects the 32-bit version of directX.  64-bit mode stays on.  By default, WMP is the 32-bit binary.  But you can run the 64-bit version by executing it from Program Files (Rather than the 32bit x86 version)
- The thing that kills HS is Direct3D HW acceleration.  If you turn that off, but keep DirectDraw HW acceleration on, the mp4 files work.

For some CRAZY reason, I turned on both hardware acceleration, and WMP started playing the mp4 files!! And so did VLC!! Now only HS shows green screen with MP4 files and hardware acceleration.  I did install (and uninstall the soft CODEC's).  I think something is stuck from before that makes it work now.  I'm sure on fresh install, hardware playback in WMP and VLC will stop working!

I confirmed this by starting 64 bit WMP.  It just shows black screen on mp4 files.  ARGGG.. Why is windows so bad at cleaning up after itself when you uninstall!?

[haynor666]

So the only way to get this game working is right now use official ATI drivers with VMMaker or Soft15kHz :/

No no, it was working for me the other day, I should have recorded a video as a proof.

I spent a few hours with Windbg and the damned thing, and it turned out it was trying to set 1280 x something, I patched the binary to set 640x480 instead and got it working. But today I was trying the same binary on a fresh installation and it's not working anymore.

Well, I've installed couple days ago XP x32 again and set up everything from zero. But I still have two spare HHDs so If something interesting pops out then I'll be happy to test on 7 x64.

[JoeB]

I'd love to go back to xp 64bit but I'm now using an SSD drive.

[kortina]

Are you sure you turned off the hardware acceleration correctly?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=139953.0

Open IE (not firefox or chrome)
Navigate here: https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player.html#main_Find_Flash_Player_version_type_and_capabilities__Flash_developers_only_

Right click on the tree flash animation in part 5.
Choose settings, then untick the "Enable Hardware Acceleration"

When I tried to use the old guides for using firefox and youtube, they don't work. This is because these days Firefox and Youtube do HTML5 by default, so you never get Flash loaded, so whatever HW acceleration you disabled it is NOT what Hyperspin uses!

[JoeB]

Yes.  I'm sure that's what I did. 

Also, why are people still stuck on Flash??  Yes, HS is written in Flash, but under the covers it calls DXVA to play MP4 files (I'm not playing the old FLV files like in HS 1.2 - I upgraded to 1.4).  If WMP can play the mp4 file, HS can play it also.  If WMP can't, then HS can't either. 

HS might be a crappy program, but Windows Media Player broken too??

[sean_sk]

JoeB its not a case of people being stuck on Flash, it's a case of that the solution presented by kortina and others works.

I have tested both an HD 4670 and an HD 5970 and have had the green video issue in Hyperspin both times, and both times the issue was solved by ensuring that Flash for Internet Explorer was installed and then right clicking an a flash video in Internet Explorer and disabling Hardware Acceleration. As to the technical reasons why this works, I have no idea but it does. I only tested this again a couple of days ago. Running HS 1.4 and yes the videos were .mp4 from emumovies.

It's the easiest solution and saves a lot of stuffing around for nothing.

[JoeB]

Are you using CRT 2.0? Are you running on Windows 7 x64 with all security patches applied?  It didn't work for me.  I installed flash and tried in IE.  I'll try again.

Also, this might fix HS, but what about other games you might want to play on your PC?  DX PC games, Daphne, etc.?  My solution is universal across the entire system, as it effects DXVA1 and DXVA2 in 32-bit mode across all media types (SD, HD, FHD, 4K, 8K).

I think the flash fix only disables flash hardware acceleration but still leaves others broken. 

[Calamity]

DX PC games should work just fine, even Daphne works fine on my tests. The feature that is broken is specific to accelerated video playback. That aside DirectX support is perfectly fine with CRT Emudriver. Even OpenGL works.

BTW I tried to rebuild my system and I still have the same issue with your mp4 file. I think before I assumed dxva was working because some mp4 videos do work, as is the case now. I need to figure out why some work and some don't.

[JoeB]

Can you share a video that works for you? I want to try it on my setup.  Maybe I can figure out what the difference is. 

[JoeB]

any luck? can you post a working video somewhere I can download? Maybe I can figure it out.

[Calamity]

any luck? can you post a working video somewhere I can download? Maybe I can figure it out.

Any video recorded with my phone works, I'd say 3gp is the reason (videos are .mp4 though).

[Calamity]

Sample video: https://mega.nz/#!jxFziQAA!-AgLNH4dOQ3nGkPOeGtZPjnW0slQPLoqfdaLbODUg0g
Proof video:    https://mega.nz/#!flsk3CjI!LpwXOEfmOG1HPs77DbUHHjJkkR4eeJH5PewXVDsRmYQ

EDIT: I added the right links.

[JoeB]

Are you sure you turned off the hardware acceleration correctly?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=139953.0

Open IE (not firefox or chrome)
Navigate here: https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player.html#main_Find_Flash_Player_version_type_and_capabilities__Flash_developers_only_

Right click on the tree flash animation in part 5.
Choose settings, then untick the "Enable Hardware Acceleration"

When I tried to use the old guides for using firefox and youtube, they don't work. This is because these days Firefox and Youtube do HTML5 by default, so you never get Flash loaded, so whatever HW acceleration you disabled it is NOT what Hyperspin uses!

These instructions don't seem to work anymore.

using flash:  21,0,0,197
Internet Explorer: 11.0.9600.18230

I turned off HW acceleration for flash, but no effect on HyperSpin

[JoeB]

Sample video: https://mega.nz/#!jxFziQAA!-AgLNH4dOQ3nGkPOeGtZPjnW0slQPLoqfdaLbODUg0g
Proof video:    https://mega.nz/#!flsk3CjI!LpwXOEfmOG1HPs77DbUHHjJkkR4eeJH5PewXVDsRmYQ

EDIT: I added the right links.

You got the links backwards.  In any case.  You are correct! Windows Media player does play your mp4 with hw acceleration in DXVA on!!  Hyperspin instead of showing a solid green square for this video, just doesn't show it at all (i.e. doesn't load)

I'll try and figure out what the differences are. 

[JoeB]

The biggest difference I noticed was the mp4 videos I have are all 60fps and your video is 30fps.  So I downloaded Handbrake and transcoded 1 video to 30fps.  It started to play fine; both in WMP and in Hyperspin!

But here's the crazy thing.  All videos are now playing fine in both! even the 60fps ones!  So I installed something that got the "glitch" fixed!  This explains maybe why your old setup worked and fresh install didn't.  The only 2 apps I installed were Handbrake and MediaInfo.  I'm pretty sure it's something Handbrake did.  Go figure.

[JoeB]

I recently upgraded to latest version of GroovyMAME and CRT drivers, and of course HyperSpin broke. This time around I discovered how to fix the video issues on Windows 7 64-bit and posting it here for prosperity. 

- Edit: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\Macromed\Flash\mms.cfg
- Add the following line: DisableHardwareAcceleration=1

MP4 playback will be fixed.  Also, on my system, Shutdown stopped working. I replaced the build in shutdown command with "shutdown.exe /s /f /t 0"

I'd love to get off this compiled flash application, but I still did not find anything as simple, works with 15khz displays, and strong with the eye candy.