Why is this not enough computing power?

[acvieluf]

I'm in the process of building a name cabinet, and because of a motherboard failure, i had to move my mame setup to a different computer.  The everything ran smooth on the previous XP machine, at just over 2Ghz and 2GB ram.  This computer is only slightly less, at 1.78 Ghz, 1.25 GB ram.  While these are not stellar numbers for a computer or anything, shouldn't be plenty? 

I'm asking because on the newer computer, some of the 90's games i want to play are running slow or choppy (elevator action returns, 1994 & Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition, 1992, Nba Jam, and maybe more).   I have stripped everything out of XP that isn't necessary, but might run in the background, and to no avail.  Is this not enough processing power?  What am I missing?

(ps - i'm running GameEx frontend, in the same fashion as the previous computer.)

Thanks in advance for any input you may have.

[Phreakwars]

Which version of MAME are you using?

[JDFan]

And are there any other differences besides the Ghz. ratings ?? (ie. is one a celeron and the other a pentium or sempron vs. athlon etc.) - Are they both using the same GPU or GPU chipset if onboard - are both the same number of cores ?? How are you getting 1.75GB of RAM ( ie. using different sizes of modules could cause the Memory bus to use single channel instead of dual channel cutting the memory throughput per clock cycle substantially and are the modules the same speed rating between the 2 systems !) - are the games that are having problems hitting the Memory ceiling and starting to use the HDD swap file (that will bring things to a crawl as the entire system waits for the info from the HDD rather than internal memory) - etc. etc. etc.

There are lots of things that come into play so without some additional info hard to really tell exactly why the difference - but if I had to guess I'd say trying to get the RAM back up to 2GB and running in dual channel mode (ie. both modules in each pair of modules are same size and rating - If the system can run in dual channel and isn't an older single channel setup) would be a starting point.

[acvieluf]

Thanks for the reply, guys. 

I'm using name .151 (also same as last computer) since it was easy to find the matching roms.

I don't remember the model of the last processor, and i can't check now, since it's gone, but this one is a Pentium 4.  It has 3 ram chips in it to make the total amount, so i assume its 2 512mb, and a 256mb. 

So you're thinking that 2 1GB chips may solve the issue?  I'm PRETTY sure that the last computer was not a pentium chip.  Could the older Pentium 4 chip be the cause? I used to think i knew some things about computers until i read your post, JDFan!   XD

[JDFan]

TRy a test and remove the 256MB module - it will drop the total memory to 1GB. but might get it running in dual channel mode (if the MOBO can run dual channel ) and just might run the games faster - so is worth a test to find out. -- Are the ram modules the same from the other system ?? If so you might be able to pull the 2GB. from it and use the largest 2 matching modules in the new system (ie. if the dead system is using the same RAM modules and had 4 512MB modules or 2 1GB modules - pull 2 of them and add them and the 2 512MB modules from the new system into the new system so you'd have either 2GB if all 4 are 512MB or 3GB. if 2 are 1GB and 2 are 512MB. (unless they are a different type of module which might also be part of the difference if one uses ddr and the other ddr2 or ddr3 modules)

[acvieluf]

awesome!  I will have to really get in there and tinker around some more tonight.  Thanks for the input.  I'll let you know how it goes!   

[acvieluf]

argh.  so heres the deal.  the old computer was only 1GB, DDR2 RAM.  (sorry, it's been a while)  The problem is the new rig (thats actually older) has 3 chips, all PC133 RAM.  2x512s, and 1x256.  If i ditch the 256, is there still a CHANCE it will run faster, due to being able to run dual channel?  I suppose i'll just test it out and find out.

[acvieluf]

I just finished testing it out.  I didn't see ANY gain in performance, unfortunately.  I'm beginning to thing this setup won't work. Stupid HP motherboard.  Everything was perfect, (and free!). 

[Phreakwars]

PC133 Memory?

Wow, now THAT is old. I'm guessing the motherboard is probably using on-board graphics and not a dedicated video card. Something tells me the difference between the 2 on-board video displays in the 2 computers is what is making the real impact here.

I can remember running MAME back in the day using an AMD Duron chip with 256 megs of RAM and it ran great... although the key driving force was a "SUPER AWESOME  " Nvidia GeForce MX420.

Sure that's now a joke of a card that you can get on eBay for like under $10 with free shipping... seriously, I looked: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&LH_FS=1&_nkw=geforce+mx420&_sop=15

But it hands down beat ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING at that time that used integrated graphics. I don't recall ever getting MAME to run right without one back then.

BTW, out of curiosity.. what is the model of the HP computer you are using?

[BadMouth]

My own philosophy is 3Ghz or go home, but if I were in your shoes, I'd switch to an older, less demanding MAME build.  v.106 is popular (and fairly easy to find) because they revamped the video in the folllowing version making it much more demanding.

EDIT:NBA jam might still not play full speed.

[Howard_Casto]

Ehh.... go core duo 2.33mhz or go home.  3 is better, but a slightly slower machine can be had for a massive discount and it'll suit most people's needs. 

[Yenome]

i bought a core 2 duo from goodwill for 20 bucks from there pc store in my area. might want to see if they got something like that.

[acvieluf]

The video card is an old aftermarket Raedon 7000 that i had in the HP, and moved it over.  I used it because it outputted to s-video.  I already have my CRT mounted in my cab, and am pretty set in my ways, although it's looking like it's going to have to change, haha.

What's odd about that old HP, is that there's no model name on the outside, but i remember seeing the HP within Windows at one point. And it's case is definitely HP.

I'm obviously having to be very cheap, otherwise I'd just spend the couple of hundred bucks for a used computer. 

Thanks again for the help everyone.  looks like i'll be poking around some second hand stores around here.   

[Yenome]

alot of time with company computers like hp, dell and gateway they will show the model or some other numbers during boot so you can find out what model it is.

[nitrogen_widget]

You need an older version of mame for that computer.
I have a few p4's <2ghz and some p4's >2ghz.
the slower ones with pc133 ram are barely more powerful than the last batch of P3's when it comes to mame.

as was mentioned before .106 or older is your best bet.

[Haze]

You need an older version of mame for that computer.
I have a few p4's <2ghz and some p4's >2ghz.
the slower ones with pc133 ram are barely more powerful than the last batch of P3's when it comes to mame.

as was mentioned before .106 or older is your best bet.

I actually found the pc133 ram ones to be LESS powerful than the P3s, and put out more heat, and be noisier, and generally be absolutely undesirable.. to be honest I'm surprised there are any still in a working state that haven't just burned out!  Was definitely a low point for intel that period.

[acvieluf]

Sorry for the noob question, but aside from possible ROM incompatability, what would i be sacrificing going back that far?  Do you think it'll be noticeable?

[baritonomarchetto]

Since mame 0.106 a lot of drivers and main core changes have been done to increase the emulation quality. Check donkey kong, for example.
With a p4 at 2.8 Ghz you can run almost all 2D games with Mame<162 (looks like newer versions require a +20% in cpu resources).
Remember that playing games at the right resolution will decrease the cpu load too, so if you have a crt, that's the way to go (for other reasons too, but we are dealing with speed here, right ?)

[acvieluf]

hmm good to know.  I do have a CRT TV (24") that i'm running using s-video.  It usually looks quite nice.

I installed .106 and tried it out last night.  You all were right, the speed is fixed.  Not all the roms worked, but that's to be expected.  Most of them did.  I have put the computer part of this project on the back burner now.  Going to focus on getting the cabinet closer to finished, that'll give me time to see if I can pick up a better computer somewhere.  That would be the ideal.

Thanks again everyone!

[Brizzle]

I have a small box of video cards, RAM, processors, wifi cards, etc that I was considering posting on eBay.  Maybe I should post here first for cases like yourself!  I even have an AGP video card (alongside PCI-express).  Non of this stuff is expensive, so if you have a motherboard laying around that is a little newer, like 2006 or newer, I may have lots of parts. 

With putting so much time into the cabinet, don't shortchange yourself TOO much on the computer, though you can always go overboard.  I had a Q6600 quad core in a PC that I'm no longer using as my main, so it became my MAME computer.  It is only 2.4 GHz, I think, and has a GTX 470 video card.  Won't play CHD or Gradius III (or was it IV), but it plays most, which is what you're aiming for.  I just bought an Intel G3258 to overclock (a very popular MAME CPU) as they are not expensive and with the right motherboard (there are forum posts on the internet), you can overclock to 4.6 GHz safely. 

ANYWAY, my post was a vomit session of info ha haa.  But if you need a cheap video card or a little newer parts after all, let me know.  I won't charge much.

[jaharr01]

I recently set up a core 2 duo 2.0 ghz with Mame 151 32 bit. It was pathetic. It wouldn't play any game past like circa 1990. I reformatted, put 64 bit win 7, with Mame 64bit. It was like night and day. It would play almost everything at full speed. I guess the 30% boost with 64 bit is true.

[Brizzle]

Wow!  I never realized there was that much of a boost by using 64-bit vs 32-bit!  My 2.4Ghz keeps up with most games, though the CHDs have zero chance of running on my system... I have no idea how to get those running other than a 4Ghz processor or faster.  Even then, I am not sure what to do.  HOWEVER, that is not the focus of this thread. 

64-bit! 

[PL1]

Wow!  I never realized there was that much of a boost by using 64-bit vs 32-bit!

From "Dev Quotes" on MAMEWorld:

"...if you're concerned about MAME performance and aren't running a 64-bit OS and 64-bit MAME yet, get with it."

- R. Belmont

 


Scott

[Howard_Casto]

I recently set up a core 2 duo 2.0 ghz with Mame 151 32 bit. It was pathetic. It wouldn't play any game past like circa 1990. I reformatted, put 64 bit win 7, with Mame 64bit. It was like night and day. It would play almost everything at full speed. I guess the 30% boost with 64 bit is true.

Yeah, which is why I recommend people upgrade from xp if their specs are high enough.... xp 64 bit is pretty much 64 bits in name only. 

Everyone keep in mind that your mileage will vary though.  For some games it doesn't help at all and others the performance increase is minimal. 

[Yenome]

I recently set up a core 2 duo 2.0 ghz with Mame 151 32 bit. It was pathetic. It wouldn't play any game past like circa 1990. I reformatted, put 64 bit win 7, with Mame 64bit. It was like night and day. It would play almost everything at full speed. I guess the 30% boost with 64 bit is true.

I have a pentium d 945 that plays the 90s just fine. i just loaded all the games onto it last night to test the speeds. it cant handle gauntlet legend but it does play KI. Im using mame .161 still need more testing on the more demanding games just to see how close it can come. keep in mind i keep auto skip turned off i feel if the pc cant play without it i dont need to play that game.

[acvieluf]

UPDATE:
Thank you all again for the advice.  Before i had a chance to explore many options, i mentioned my problem to a friend.  He ended up having a donor computer that was 4 GB, and 2.75-ish Ghz, but no hard drive.  I took the hard drive from the hp (the one with everything in mame already set up), and stuck it in the new one, expecting nothing.  It worked almost PERFECTLY.  A few driver sets later, and EVERYTHING is flawless. 
UH-mazing!

     <---- I don't know what these means, but it sums up how i feel, haha.