Project: I'll give this a shot, but I'm going to need your help (catchy I know)

[jmcginley]

INTRO:

Hello, I'm brand new to this hobby and don't have a lot of experience working on these sorts of projects. However, I have a passion for arcade games and I'm pretty good at following directions. You may have seen me asking questions on a few other boards around here and I feel like I've already learned a lot, but I know there is a TON I still have no clue about. I really felt like I should probably start a build thread so I can keep all my questions in one place and share my progress along the way.

Please be patient with me as I'm asking questions, sometimes it takes a few ways of explaining something before it "clicks".

THEME/NAME:

Still TBD. Either going with TMNT or a generic black and white theme.

PLAN:

• A 4 player machine running GroovyMAME on a CRT Arcade Monitor (Sanwa 29E31S).
• The control panel layout is attached.
• I plan to have black pushbuttons with RGBLED bezels, probably the iL ones from Paradise Arcade. I'll use LEDBlinky to help show which buttons are active for each game.
• Player 1 and Player 2 will have U 360s with ball tops. Player 3 and Player 4 will have J-Stiks with ball tops.
• I'll use a U-Track  FlushMount Trackball.
• I plan to use an empty, stripped down Gauntlet Legends cabinet that was converted to a Target Terror at some point. Will need to make some adjustments in order to fit the monitor.

CURRENT QUESTIONS:

• My arcade monitor does not have a VGA port, so in order to connect my PC to the monitor I've read I will need to use a J-Pac (or similar). This is where I'm confused (and reading Ultimarc's website doesn't seem to answer my question) - Do I need to have a jamma harness in order for this to work? Keep in mind there is nothing in the cabinet, so I don't have a jamma harness. How do I go about doing this?
• That leads me to my second question - What do I need to buy in order to have 4 players with a total of 34 buttons plus a trackball? If I get a jamma harness and use the J-Pac along with an I-Pac I think I will have enough ports for all the controls. Then get a Pac-LED64 for the LEDs? Does that sound right? What about the trackball? 
• My Sanwa 29E31S monitor is 31Khz only. Will I have any issues using GroovyMAME, CRT Emudriver, and Radeon HD 4350 graphics cards to get native resolution/refresh rate on all MAME games?

UPDATE:

I've included some pics of the cabinet. I forgot to put the control panel back on for the pictures. It just has two light guns and two start buttons.

There is a Wells Gardner D9200 monitor in it currently. I tried connecting my PC via VGA and set it to 640x480 at 60hz and it just went from No Signal to showing a black screen. It came with the cabinet and was described to me as non working.

In addition to that Wells Gardner I have a Sanwa 29E31S that is not pictured.

[yotsuya]

Good luck with your project.

[jmcginley]

Good luck with your project.

Thank you, I'm excited to get the ball rolling.

[EvilNuff]

You bring up jamma harnesses a couple times.  A Jamma harness is just an edge connector that a jamma board plugs into with a bunch of wires that go out to the various parts of the cabinet.  You plan on running a pc so you would have no need for a jamma harness, you instead need an encoder which plugs into your pc and you run the wires from the controls to the encoder.  I would recommend perusing the wiki for a bit to get a feel for how others have done this.

[yotsuya]

If you're going to use an arcade monitor, a JAMMA harness would be idea if you are running a J-Pac and ArcadeVGA.

[jmcginley]

If you're going to use an arcade monitor, a JAMMA harness would be idea if you are running a J-Pac and ArcadeVGA.

I'm wondering if I've made a bad decision getting an arcade monitor that only runs 31khz.

I posted something on the GroovyMAME board a while back and was directed to get a Radeon HD 4350 to run with GroovyMAME and CRT Emudriver in order to get native resolution/refresh rate on all MAME games.

I was also told to get a DVI to VGA converter to run the VGA to a J-Pac which should have a jamma harness attached to it.

Is that incorrect?

[harveybirdman]

What does the donor cabinet and existing panel look like? I'd it were me I'd use what was there before I hung the USS RGB off it.

[jmcginley]

What does the donor cabinet and existing panel look like? I'd it were me I'd use what was there before I hung the USS RGB off it.

I'll take some pictures when I get home. It had what looked like a Target Terror PCB attached to a PC motherboard.

[harveybirdman]

Yes let's see pics of what you have.

Have you made a list of the games that you want this cabinet to play well?  I assume the four player beat em ups are high on that list?

[jmcginley]

Yes let's see pics of what you have.

Have you made a list of the games that you want this cabinet to play well?  I assume the four player beat em ups are high on that list?

I do have a picture of the monitor and the molex connector on the back (which is what I'm confused about - how to connect to it)

The games I'd like to play well would definitely be first and foremost the four player beat em ups and the two player vs fighting games. Second in line would be the classics (pacman, galaga, donkey kong, etc).

[vwalbridge]

I'm still working on a theme/name. I've got a couple ideas rattling around. Jurassic Park or Back to the Future maybe, although I never cared for the games, I just love the movies.

I know you didn't ask for opinions on this subject but I couldn't help myself. I personally don't care for Arcade Machine themes based on movies. That is something typically reserved for pinball machines. I find it more interesting when I see someone pick a totally original theme, or a theme inspired from another build. The movie themes you have in mind are games you will not play on this cab. Whenever I seen an arcade, the artwork should represent the game(s) the machine plays. Or at least invoke a feeling of the games/theme of games it plays.

In all honesty, I'd rather my cab be theme-less, than have a movie theme. So I challenge you to reconsider this and put some additional thought into your theme. Keeping in mind that the theme can also be very simple. It doesn't have to be complicated. In fact, some of the more simple themes turn out looking the best.

Just my 2 cents. Have fun and good luck. 

[jmcginley]

I'm still working on a theme/name. I've got a couple ideas rattling around. Jurassic Park or Back to the Future maybe, although I never cared for the games, I just love the movies.

I know you didn't ask for opinions on this subject but I couldn't help myself. I personally don't care for Arcade Machine themes based on movies. That is something typically reserved for pinball machines. I find it more interesting when I see someone pick a totally original theme, or a theme inspired from another build. The movie themes you have in mind are games you will not play on this cab. Whenever I seen an arcade, the artwork should represent the game(s) the machine plays. Or at least invoke a feeling of the games/theme of games it plays.

In all honesty, I'd rather my cab be theme-less, than have a movie theme. So I challenge you to reconsider this and put some additional thought into your theme. Keeping in mind that the theme can also be very simple. It doesn't have to be complicated. In fact, some of the more simple themes turn out looking the best.


Just my 2 cents. Have fun and good luck. 

I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion. I can definitely see where you're coming from. My thinking for Jurassic Park was that it's a 90s movie and I'll mostly have 90s games on the machine. So just kind of a nostalgia thing. I agree with you though, they should reflect the type of games available on the machine, and like I said before, I'm not crazy about either of those games.

Something I left off the first post is possibly doing a TMNT theme (I know tons of people have them). It's something I loved as a kid and my kids are crazy about now.

The other option is to do something very plain and simple, like you said. I'm kind of leaning towards this just because I'll have the RGBLEDs and I don't want it to look too busy. Added bonus is it will probably be cheaper than doing crazy elaborate side art. Also, if I ever have enough money and enough know-how, it would look better with a LCD marquee than a busy looking cab themed after a dedicated game.

[harveybirdman]

It seems we have vastly different ideas of what looks cool and what's "tacky"

There are many cool Ninja Turtle builds with great artwork on this site, including plenty that added 6 button layouts for P1 and P2.

Also there is tons of art online that can be adapted for this theme.  In my opinion this is much more appealing than the other paths you mentioned.

Looking forward to pics of the cab to see what you're working with.

[jmcginley]

It seems we have vastly different ideas of what looks cool and what's "tacky"

There are many cool Ninja Turtle builds with great artwork on this site, including plenty that added 6 button layouts for P1 and P2.

Also there is tons of art online that can be adapted for this theme.  In my opinion this is much more appealing than the other paths you mentioned.

Looking forward to pics of the cab to see what you're working with.

I would love a TMNT cab. I've seen lots of great ones on here. I also love the Blip cabinet that markc74 built, but an LCD marquee isn't something I can do right now. So just kind of weighing the options at this point. I think a movie theme is probably not a good idea, like was mentioned previously. TMNT or black and white is where I'm at now.

My wife was able to send me a pic of the guts I took out of the cab. If I'm not mistaken, is that a jamma harness in the bottom of the pic? If so, can I just get a J-Pac and plug that into the side so I can start the build process?

[yotsuya]

There are Jurassic Park arcade games, at least, so that one isn't too bad...

[jmcginley]

There are Jurassic Park arcade games, at least, so that one isn't too bad...

...but still pretty bad. It's just one of my favorite movies and I'm always quoting it to friends. I think what vwalbridge said makes sense though. Plus I'm not a huge fan of the arcade game.

[yotsuya]

Well, I totally agree with him about Non-arcade arcade themes, but I was also trying to give you an out in case you really wanted to use it ...

[jmcginley]

Well, I totally agree with him about Non-arcade arcade themes, but I was also trying to give you an out in case you really wanted to use it ...

haha quite the gentleman you are

[reptileink]

I say build what you like and want to stare at for the next couple years.

*ducks bricks thrown*

I have a Punisher themed cab, and while it IS a fun game, I did it more because he is one of my favorite comic book characters.

What I am trying to say is, don't be swayed by opinions, everyone has them.

I think a Back to the Future theme would be really fun (and relevant if you have older console games on it)  However, I would modify the theme to fit "arcade" somehow. Like "Back to the Arcade" in the BTTF font/graphics. Bezel that looks like the dashboard, etc.

[jmcginley]

So here is the question I'm stuck with...

I've got a WG D9200 (27" tri-sync) that doesn't work and a Sanwa 29E31S (29" 31khz only) with no issues.

• Use the Sanwa 29E31S and make adjustments in GroovyMAME and add scanlines to get all MAME games looking original?
  

• Or get the D9200 fixed to get the most accurate display?

I think if I go with a D9200, I will sell the Sanwa and use that money to have someone fix it for me. I've read and learned a lot about arcade monitors, but there is still so much I don't know/understand.

What are some considerations I may no be aware of with each decision? I'm a little nervous using a 31khz monitor just because it seems like everyone has 15khz and I'm sure there must be a good reason why.

[harveybirdman]

Okay so was there no existing control panel?  I think with your monitor issue you can make either work, and either will be much better than a LCD solution.

[jmcginley]

Okay so was there no existing control panel?  I think with your monitor issue you can make either work, and either will be much better than a LCD solution.

Yeah, I was just an idiot and forgot to put it back on before I took the pictures. You can kind of see it sticking up out of that container in the background. It just had two light guns and two start buttons on it. Everything on the cab is in great shape. I don't really see any scrapes or dings or broken corners anywhere.

One clear advantage of the D9200 is that it's already fit in the cabinet so it wouldn't require any adjustments like the Sanwa would.

[vwalbridge]

Dude. Are you going to leave that arcade in your garage? Cuz it looks to be 8ft tall and 4ft deep. And when you put that 4P control panel on it...omg.

[jmcginley]

I'm not a fan of that style of marquee, so I'll probably be removing it and looking at trying to frame in a new marquee.

If there are any Gauntlet Legends fans out there who need a marquee, hit me up!

[jmcginley]

Dude. Are you going to leave that arcade in your garage? Cuz it looks to be 8ft tall and 4ft deep. And when you put that 4P control panel on it...omg.

That marquee flips down and it's about 6 feet or so. It's definitely deep, but the width is small enough to fit through a standard doorway with the control panel off.

We have a pretty empty rec room that we're slowly filling with stuff, so space won't be an issue on this one.

[Token]

For a theme, how about Gauntlet?

No really. You could reuse the old control panel. Hear me out on this one. If you ditch the trackball you could fit four players (P1&2 with 6 buttons and P3&4 with 4) on the original CP.

[Aceldamor]

Is that the original board / hdd for Gauntlet Legends? If so, are you going to keep it?

[jmcginley]

Is that the original board / hdd for Gauntlet Legends? If so, are you going to keep it?

It's not. It was converted to Target Terror. All the Gauntlet stuff was removed before I got it.

[jmcginley]

I've got a picture of the connector on my monitor.

What do I need to do to get this connected to my PC? Should I solder a VGA cable to the corresponding pinouts? Or use a converter of sorts for this specific molex connector? 

[jmcginley]

This brings up another question, please forgive my ignorance, but how do I get power to the monitor? Is ther another wire somewhere I should see that can connect to a power supply?

[obcd]

That connector on the sanwa monitor has all you need.

The 2 AC pins need to be feeded with 100V AC
The RGB sync and GND pins are the ones you need for your video signal. It should accept a 640x480 vga video signal without a converter.
Further, you have the 2 degaussing pins that should go to a pushbutton if I remember well. You can leave those unconnected for now.
Your connector only seems to have 1 sync input. A pc analog vga output has a separate vertical and horizontal sync. So, you might need some circuit to combine the 2 sync signals into one composite sync.
The degaussing pins are those marked dem.
 

[jmcginley]

That connector on the sanwa monitor has all you need.

The 2 AC pins need to be feeded with 100V AC
The RGB sync and GND pins are the ones you need for your video signal. It should accept a 640x480 vga video signal without a converter.
Further, you have the 2 degaussing pins that should go to a pushbutton if I remember well. You can leave those unconnected for now.
Your connector only seems to have 1 sync input. A pc analog vga output has a separate vertical and horizontal sync. So, you might need some circuit to combine the 2 sync signals into one composite sync.
The degaussing pins are those marked dem.

Thank you for the detailed explanation of what each of these pins are. As far as physically connecting the wires to the 12 pin molex, should I just get the male version of this molex, wire it up and plug it in?

Connecting the RGB and GND from the VGA should be easy.

I'll need to look up some additional info on where I should run the wires for the 100V AC to get the power. Would the end that is hooked up to a power source just be something like a typical electrical plug that I can plug into a power strip inside the the cabinet?

[obcd]

If you can find the other mating molex, that would be neatest to connect to the monitor.

For the vga connection, you might look for a vga cable and cut one connector off.
The DB15 vga connectors are a pain to solder, specially since the rgb cables are 3 coax cables.
An old defective vga monitor can function as donor for the cable as well.
Usually, european cabinets using these monitors had a large transformer that converted the 240V to 100V.
It also provided isolation between the mains and the chassis of the monitor.
If I remember well, the Sanwa doesn't need an isolation transformer, but you might check the manual to be sure.
So, if no isolation transformer is needed, you can connect it directly to mains if your mains has the correct voltage.