Kymaera FE, Version 1.23 now Available!

[ErikRuud]

The problem with Visual Pinball is that it is really not intended to be run from a command line.  You can get VP to load and run a table by with a command that looks like this: "Start tablename.vpt with path".  But you still have the problem that when you exit the table, it want to go back to the VP editor, so you need something that will shutdown VP completely.

Initially I was using an AutoIt script that I had written to get VisualPinball to work with GameLauncher.

I have found that Howard Castros VisualPinball wrapper works very well also.  You can get it from Howard's Dragon King site

Then you use the wrapper instead of VPinball.exe

[PacManFan]

I'm working on the 1st release version for Kymaera, after much testing and feedback from everyone, I have been able to iron out most of the bugs and add some great new features.

I would like to know if anyone has any features requests that I might be able to put in for the 1st official release.
If so, post them here, and I'll see what I can do.

-PMF

[str1der]

I'm working on the 1st release version for Kymaera, after much testing and feedback from everyone, I have been able to iron out most of the bugs and add some great new features.

I would like to know if anyone has any features requests that I might be able to put in for the 1st official release.
If so, post them here, and I'll see what I can do.

-PMF

1. A Hot key to add a rom to a favorites list.
2. Support for mouse 2

Another problem I ran into is with the skin editor. I wanted to change the skin so that the Game Previews( with 3 showing) were on the left going up and down where you currently have the cab/flyer/titles. I then wanted to put the cab and control panels along the bottom. When I tried to resize the Game Preview box for that orientation it always crashes the editor. Anyone else try this?

Thanks for the hard work

[Boris]

Videos ! As in Emutron   Really like them and with the wheel... we can have something

[ErikRuud]

I would like to have game specific options like GameLauncher does.

I have mame set up to run with -nobezels.  Bezels take up too much of the screen, but for some games the bezels are used to emulate indicator lights that were on the original cab.  Lunar Lander, Atari ootball, Space wars all benefit from this.  I woul like to be able to have Kymera start these games with -usebezels.

Here is how it is setup in GameLauncher.
########################################################################
#
# Per ROM options go here
#
# List of short ROM names followed by their options:
#
#   rom = -option1 -option2 ...
#
# i.e.:
#   arkanoid = -novsync

[PacManFan]

Boris, Hey, good to hear from you again. I've got good news, Videos are supported everywhere where images are, the currently support file formats are:

mpg ,avi, png, tga, bmp, gif

You can have a video playing as your background image, or anywhere else you use an image, just like in EmuTron.

I'm not planning on building a "scripting" language per se. All the XML config files (kymaera.kfg, mame.emu, kymaera.skn) can have "scripting" capabilites built in.

One of the first things that I'm going to do is add in animated text colors, and animated rectangles, so you can control some simple animations on the screen, and set it up against a timeline. Then, I've give the user the ability to "trigger" these animations and things to happen when certain "events" (input events and otherwise) are triggered.

I think this will sufficiently mimic the powerful scripting language that EmuTron has without all the hassle of writing a script.  

-PMF

[PacManFan]

I would like to have game specific options like GameLauncher does.

I have mame set up to run with -nobezels.  Bezels take up too much of the screen, but for some games the bezels are used to emulate indicator lights that were on the original cab.  Lunar Lander, Atari ootball, Space wars all benefit from this.  I woul like to be able to have Kymera start these games with -usebezels.

Here is how it is setup in GameLauncher.
########################################################################
#
# Per ROM options go here
#
# List of short ROM names followed by their options:
#
#   rom = -option1 -option2 ...
#
# i.e.:
#   arkanoid = -novsync

You got it, that should be simple to add in with another field in the gamelist.

-PMF

[PacManFan]

Another problem I ran into is with the skin editor. I wanted to change the skin so that the Game Previews( with 3 showing) were on the left going up and down where you currently have the cab/flyer/titles. I then wanted to put the cab and control panels along the bottom. When I tried to resize the Game Preview box for that orientation it always crashes the editor. Anyone else try this?

Thanks for the hard work

If you can repeat the crash, I can fix it. Can you preview the skin w/out resizing it? Do you have a gamelist set up? if you send me your kymaera.kfg file and the emu and skn files, I'll debug it and see what's going on.

-PMF

[ErikRuud]

I kind of thought it should be easy.

Is Emutron still available somewhere?  I would like to take a look at it.

[PacManFan]

Oh sure, NOW you want to see EmuTron, after I've already written Kymaera. EmuTron is no longer available for download, I replaced all the pages at my site with Kymaera pages. I've got the final distribution on computer at home, and if anyone is interested in the source code, I'd be willing to share.

EmuTron was the first, last and only "scriptable" FE. EmuTron by itself was not programmed to do anything. You had to write a script to tell it to load images, game lists, mp3 lists, play sounds, etc... It was based on a "Event" based methodology. You defined "events" (functions) in a script, and the "triggers" for these events (inputs like keys,joystick,mouse), Event can call other events, or be set off by a timer. In these events, you can define a series of actions like "loadlist,playsound, NextInList,etc.. "

I think I had around 25 built-in "functions" to perform actions. You could define variables in the script and use them too. some variable types were : Image, var, list, string,color.

You could chain together multiple scripts to perform complex actions. Each script acted as it's own "screen", defining all it's inputs(keys) and outputs(display).

EmuTron was a great FE, but admittedly, a little difficult for the average MAME user to set up. Some people still swear by it, saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because of it's flexibilty. If you really wanted to, you could write an entire video game in EmuTron, or a piece of tax software. Emutron has a compiler and byte-code interpreter built into it. For those of you who have studied compiler and language design, you know that this can be a complex task.

But all this flexibility came at a price, the scripts were difficult to write, and debug.

I started making a WYSIWYG editor for Emutron, but the code was horribly un-neccessarily complex and hard to maintain, because I had to write an interpreter for the script. I figured that If I was going to go that route, I needed a fresh start. That's how Kymaera was born.

Hope you enjoyed the background on all this. I suppose you want to see my first FE "Game Launcher Pro" too.

-PMF

[ErikRuud]

I'm a programmer! I love writing code, so scripting would probably be fun.  I was just curious about EmuTron.

When EmuTron came out I only had a 233mhz PC, so I was running GameLauncher and MAME under DOS and basically ignored all the windows FE's.

Now that I have upgraded to a 1.6 ghz PC, I am looking for a FE with a few more features.  Kymera allows multiple keys to be defined for the same function and that is a feature that I really need.

[PacManFan]

You can also use logical operators to define inputs like  SCAN_LALT | SCAN_LCTRL so that one or the other key will perform the input, or SCAN_LALT & SCAN_LCTRL so that you have to press both keys together to trigger the input. I'll probably put in a ! (not) operator to ignore keys and a -> (sequence) operator to do cool multiple combos to trigger inputs like R-R-D-U-D-L.

EmuTron would work fine on a 233, I put it on a 200mhz cocktail cab I built for my sister, with a movie as  the background, and it was still pretty quick. The bytecode interpretation at runtime was very fast. When EmuTron loads the scripts, it compiles at load time, so it's very fast. I'm using the same basic graphics core in Kymaera right now. (with some improvements for caching images and movies)

Let me know if you want to see the source.

-PMF

[ErikRuud]

PMF,

You can also use logical operators to define inputs like  SCAN_LALT | SCAN_LCTRL so that one or the other key will perform the input,

That is exactly the feature I meant. I mirrors the key assignment functioanlity of MAME and let's me get away from reprogramming my IPAC on the fly.

[screaming]

What are the software requirements for Kymaera?  I haven't been following this whole thread, but I tried searching on several terms to come up with a list.

  Here is why I ask: I tried running Kymaera and it does nothing besides bomb out. I start the program and my screen flips resolution, then flips back and I'm back at the Windows Explorer screen.

  I'm running Windows XP. Plenty of RAM, HD, processor and all the latest patches (including DX9). I configured it through the KymaeraConfig.exe, but it still happens when I run the FE. I changed my colors to 16bit (from 32bit) since that seemed like a common problem but it didn't help.

  Here's my game.log file, if this helps:

Code: [Select]

******************
        0 : Log System initted
        0 : Current working directory is H:\fes\Kymaera\
      296 : Inited mouse
      296 : Enumertateing Joysticks Devices
      296 : enumerating device
      296 : enumerating device
      296 : enumerating device
      296 : initing screen
      765 : initing screen
      796 : *** failed to set co-op level generic error2
      796 : *** failed to set display mode generic error2

I do have a dual-display setup, and I didn't try disabling the second monitor.  Could this be the problem?

/Steve

[PacManFan]

Yup, that's execatly what's going on, I had written code to work with multi-monitor systems, then I never got it to work quite right, so I stubbed most of it out. Kymaera still tries to initialize all monitors. I'll have it fixed by next version, but for now, you need to disable the second display  

-PMF

[PacManFan]

As far as software requirements go, You need DirectX 8, Everything else is included. there is 1 dll, Bass.dll in the same directory as Kymaera, but it doesn't require any registration or anything. Everything else is statically linked int the main program exe.
I'm building and running Kymaera on Windows XP machines and a 98 box, so if anyone else can tell me how it's performing on 95,98,NT,ME,or 2k, that would be great.

As far as hardware requirements go, I've got it running nicely w/ movies on a AMD k6-2 300 cabinet with a limited set of roms.

-PMF

[Boris]

Boris, Hey, good to hear from you again. I've got good news, Videos are supported everywhere where images are, the currently support file formats are:

mpg ,avi, png, tga, bmp, gif

You can have a video playing as your background image, or anywhere else you use an image, just like in EmuTron.

I'm not planning on building a "scripting" language per se. All the XML config files (kymaera.kfg, mame.emu, kymaera.skn) can have "scripting" capabilites built in.

One of the first things that I'm going to do is add in animated text colors, and animated rectangles, so you can control some simple animations on the screen, and set it up against a timeline. Then, I've give the user the ability to "trigger" these animations and things to happen when certain "events" (input events and otherwise) are triggered.

I think this will sufficiently mimic the powerful scripting language that EmuTron has without all the hassle of writing a script.  

-PMF

Great   "animated text colors, and animated rectangles" is what we need to make a great skin. We have enough static FE   I have to start playing with kymaera videos...

Boris

[screaming]

it fixed by next version, but for now, you need to disable the second display  

  Hey hey, I tried disabling the second monitor and Kymaera works!

  Thanks for your help.

/Steve

[Fandenivoldsk]

Okay, since you asked for it... Here goes...:

I'd like to be able display an avi animation once every time I press, say, arrow up or arrow down. That way I can make some fancy sliders for each game. Actually it would be nice if I was able to have two avi playing, one after each other; one that start when I press a key, and another that loop right after the first one stopped. Why? you may ask... The reason is that I could have something that pops up or goes from right to left, and then exchange it with a clip that loops. I don't know if I've made myself clear... but it would bring some life onto the screen.

Also, it would be nice to have to a vertical game_previews...

I'm working on the 1st release version for Kymaera, after much testing and feedback from everyone, I have been able to iron out most of the bugs and add some great new features.

I would like to know if anyone has any features requests that I might be able to put in for the 1st official release.
If so, post them here, and I'll see what I can do.

-PMF

[PacManFan]

Okay, since you asked for it... Here goes...:

I'd like to be able display an avi animation once every time I press, say, arrow up or arrow down. That way I can make some fancy sliders for each game. Actually it would be nice if I was able to have two avi playing, one after each other; one that start when I press a key, and another that loop right after the first one stopped. Why? you may ask... The reason is that I could have something that pops up or goes from right to left, and then exchange it with a clip that loops. I don't know if I've made myself clear... but it would bring some life onto the screen.

Also, it would be nice to have to a vertical game_previews...

Well, the vertical games preview is simple enough, I've got most of that written already, I just need to code a new layout function for it.

That triggerable animation is certainly within my sights. A few posts above, I was talking about putting in animation functions, and that could include that ability to trigger animations as well as loading movies on certain keypresses. It might not make it into the next release, but probably sometime soon.

-PMF

[str1der]

Another problem I ran into is with the skin editor. I wanted to change the skin so that the Game Previews( with 3 showing) were on the left going up and down where you currently have the cab/flyer/titles. I then wanted to put the cab and control panels along the bottom. When I tried to resize the Game Preview box for that orientation it always crashes the editor. Anyone else try this?

Thanks for the hard work

If you can repeat the crash, I can fix it. Can you preview the skin w/out resizing it? Do you have a gamelist set up? if you send me your kymaera.kfg file and the emu and skn files, I'll debug it and see what's going on.

-PMF

Yes it's repeatable . It always happens. Preview works fine and I have a gamelist. I'm not even trying to create a new skin I'm just trying to edit the default skin. Try it on yours. Grab the bottom game preview box and resize it to a vertical orientation and move it over to the far left of the layout. Let me know what happens.

[str1der]

Niether of those solutions is really practical for me.

I have some gamelists that only have 4 games in them and others have hundreds.

It is possible to make a list that is circular without haveing it display multiple times.  I have done it in Java apps and even in COBOL.

Erik,
       Couldn't you increase the PIXEL SPACING BETWEEN LINES in the game_list properties of that skin so that your 4 games fill your game list?

[PacManFan]

Another problem I ran into is with the skin editor. I wanted to change the skin so that the Game Previews( with 3 showing) were on the left going up and down where you currently have the cab/flyer/titles. I then wanted to put the cab and control panels along the bottom. When I tried to resize the Game Preview box for that orientation it always crashes the editor. Anyone else try this?

Thanks for the hard work

If you can repeat the crash, I can fix it. Can you preview the skin w/out resizing it? Do you have a gamelist set up? if you send me your kymaera.kfg file and the emu and skn files, I'll debug it and see what's going on.

-PMF

Yes it's repeatable . It always happens. Preview works fine and I have a gamelist. I'm not even trying to create a new skin I'm just trying to edit the default skin. Try it on yours. Grab the bottom game preview box and resize it to a vertical orientation and move it over to the far left of the layout. Let me know what happens.

str1der,

Thanks for pointing that out, I just did it, and sure enough, it crashed. It's the classic "divide by 0" bug. I'll fix it and put in the ability to have vertical previews for you. I'll make it so that if you stretch it taller than wide, it'll switch to a vertical layout, I'll probably put in an optional animation so the image can "slide" side to side or up/down with maybe an optional alpha fade toward the edges.

Thanks for reporting, keep 'em coming.

-PMF

[ErikRuud]

Increasing the pixel spacing would be as useful as making the list box smaller.

I would nly be able to display 4 games in the list.  That would make the long list hard to navigate.

[str1der]

Increasing the pixel spacing would be as useful as making the list box smaller.

I would nly be able to display 4 games in the list.  That would make the long list hard to navigate.

I assumed that the smaller list was for a different emulator. Couldn't you just have the skin configured differently for that emulator?

[ErikRuud]

Yes, for the short list of Daphne games, I could use a different skin.

But for MAME, where the different categories, have varying numbers of games in them, I really need to have the scrolling fixed.

[str1der]

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't know you were talking about different categories within a single emulator.

[abrannan]

What about a dynamic font/spacing resize?  For example:

X = Game list box vertical size
Y = Game list box horizontal size
Z = Pixel Height of current font size
A = pixel height of current space between items in list
B = Number of games in current list
C = Pixel width of longest entry in list at currnet font size

if X > A + B(Z+A)  //If the current box is larger vertically than the game list would display

Z++, B++ if C<Y, else B++  // Increase font size and spacing as long as longest entry will still display in list, otherwise only increase space between entries


I think that would give you a non-scrolling list of games that is resized to take advantage of the full game list box area, while still allowing the larger game lists to display in a scolling list box.  You could also keep a default font and font size for that lists, that would automatically up-adjust for shorter lists.  

The difficulty would come in with a short game list like:

Pac-Man
Frogger
Dig-Dug
*Insert ridiculously long game title here (US 940103)*

Which would result in a list of very small font size entries with an inordinate amount of space in between entries.  But I guess you could come up with a word-wrapping algorithm to handle that.

Does that sound like it would work to other people?

[PacManFan]

Abrannan,

I had no idea you were a programmer, I'll have to take a look at the psuedo-code you provided.

I think the simple solution is:

When the # of games in the list is less than the number of games that will fit in the gamelist, Don't scroll the list, only move the selected item.

As far as text being truncated at the edge of the list because names are too long, there are 3 options.
1) do what I'm doing right now (truncating the text abruptly)
2) wrap the text to the next line.
3) display an end elipsis,  ex: virtua primal mortal super street figh......

I'll put in those other 2 options (#2,and #3) into the gamelist edit box.

I don't think bumping up/down the font size would look too nice.

-PMF

[abrannan]

Programmer is such a subjective term.  I wouldn't call myself a programmer.  I'm much better with pseudo-code than actually having to deal with the warts of any given programming language (and religious wars aside, they *all* have them).  Besides, my college professors always told me that in the real world I'd never have to write real code.  All I'd have to do was write pseudo-code which would be handed off to a technician who would implement it in language X.  Ha.


And I agree that the font resize could get real ugly looking real fast.  I was just trying to come up with a way to not have a lot of blank space on the screen when you have a text box that can handle 30 games, and a four game list.

[PacManFan]

Have you checkout out Kymaera yet? I'm still looking for some feedback on current features and possible future features.

-PMF

[abrannan]

No, I  haven't gotten around to trying it out yet.  I apologize.

[PacManFan]

That's it, I'm coming down the street to your house right now w/ a cd!

-PMF

[ErikRuud]

That's it, I'm coming down the street to your house right now w/ a cd!

-PMF

Not until you finish all these updates!!!!  

[ErikRuud]

I just read this thread: http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=16076

It is one way to give individual ganes there own default options until PMF gets this feature into Kymaera.

[Boris]

Just playing with the skin editor...
Could we have an option to order the different elements in the z-plan. Look at the screenshot, I would like to put the Marquee over the game list.
Perhaps by changing the order in the .skn ?

List games creation : arrgh   Yes, the control you use (to list the games) is really buggy. For me, it hang really often and I then could not made any other selection.

Xml files... : could it be "real" xml file ? I explain : no more "<Number_Of_Entries>##</Number_Of_Entries>" and then "<Entry_#>"  

Videos : seems that the sound is not in synch with the video, the sound come something like 10 secondes later.

Folders : multi folder for an element... Exemple, if a video is not available, look in the snaps folder.

Missing element : if an element is not available, use a default one.

Good job PMF !  

Boris

[dommer]

Would it be possible to incorporate a jukebox fe into Kymaera?  

[PacManFan]

Hey Boris,

Could we have an option to order the different elements in the z-plan. Look at the screenshot, I would like to put the Marquee over the game list.
Perhaps by changing the order in the .skn ?

You can, There are 2 buttons to the right of the list of elements in the skin. Click on an element that you want to change to z-order for, them click U for up and D for down to move them up and down in the list.

Xml files... : could it be "real" xml file ? I explain : no more "<Number_Of_Entries>##</Number_Of_Entries>" and then "<Entry_#>"  

XML is a file format that defines data, Anything can go into an XML file, The program reading the XML file just needs to know what it's looking for. This is usually handles through the DTD (Document template description) . Because I'm both writing and reading the data for all the files in Kymaera, I already know the format. Is there something in the file that you would like to put in there?

Videos : seems that the sound is not in synch with the video, the sound come something like 10 secondes later.

Folders : multi folder for an element... Exemple, if a video is not available, look in the snaps folder.

I'm not quite sure why the video is not staying synced to the sound track, I'll have to check on that. Was it an AVI or Mpg?

Folders- currently, Kymaera looks at the rom name, then generates what the file name should be to load, First, it constructs the filename , then it searches for the file using the extensions mpg,avi,png,tga,bmp, and gif, in that order. So it looks for movies first. If it can't find a file matching those names, It uses the parent's rom name (if it has a parent) and does the same thing.


I'll probably put in a default file to use or the kymaera logo if a file can't be found.


-PMF

[PacManFan]

Would it be possible to incorporate a jukebox fe into Kymaera?  

Yup, but it may not happen immediately, I want to get the Game- launching aspect of Kymaera working great before I start to branch off into a JukeBox and an app more like MyHtpc.

-PMF

[Boris]

Hello.

You can, There are 2 buttons to the right of the list of elements in the skin. Click on an element that you want to change to z-order for, them click U for up and D for down to move them up and down in the list.

Ok, work great !

XML is a file format that defines data, Anything can go into an XML file, The program reading the XML file just needs to know what it's looking for.
Because I'm both writing and reading the data for all the files in Kymaera, I already know the format.

Huuum... No   . Xml files are to be used by other   . Each item in an xml file must have the same name. If you really need a number, you must add an attribute, something like this
<Entry>
<ID>#</ID>
...
</Entry>
or like this "<Entry  ID=#>...</Entry>"

Is there something in the file that you would like to put in there?

Not in that file... I'm just thinking that we can do something "standard" for all the FE, and have a generic tool to do the configuration of the different emulators, the different games lists, ... Skin and fe config are specific for each FE, but not emulator or game list, in my opinion. I'm just thinking of this...

I'm not quite sure why the video is not staying synced to the sound track, I'll have to check on that. Was it an AVI or Mpg?

it is avi. Playing them in Media Player is ok.

Folders- currently, Kymaera looks at the rom name, then generates what the file name should be to load, First, it constructs the filename , then it searches for the file using the extensions mpg,avi,png,tga,bmp, and gif, in that order. So it looks for movies first. If it can't find a file matching those names, It uses the parent's rom name (if it has a parent) and does the same thing.

This is how I see it :
1/ (foreach extension) {rom.ext, if not, then parent_rom.ext} (in the video folder)
2/ if not, (foreach extension) {rom.ext, if not, parent_rom.ext} (in the snap folder)
and so on.
As it is now, I must put all my snapshots in the videos folder. I think it is not good.
It is just my need, it's a proposition, not an order  

I'll probably put in a default file to use or the kymaera logo if a file can't be found.

I really think that it must be one default file for each type of picture. If you only have one for screenshot (exemple), if you have to draw this in the space of the marquee, it will be really bad. I don't think a generic one will be ok for each different type of picture.

Boris