Using a Tview Scan Converter to Arcade Monitor

[ophtho]

Ok, for those of you who hate scan converters, just click the back icon on your browser and move on. For those of you who like the idea, keep reading.  Since I want to run Windows, PC games, and MAME on my arcade monitor, I decided to use to use a scan converter.  Originally used the Averkey as it had the most direct routing to the monitor through the RGB output. However, on my Averkey 3 Plus, the output basically sucked: 1) it was dim, and if I tried to put it through a JPAC, it oversaturated the image and I got whiteout 2) it clipped the image (losing about 5% of the image) 3) its overscan and underscan features were terrible as they actually removed lines to accomplish the task.

So I turned to the Tview. Many thanks to Tetsu for leading me on the right path to this wonderful device.

http://www.trouble-makers.com/kami/emulation/main.html

The Tview has the wonderful ability to let you run the game at its original resolution in MAME32 without a hardware stretch. It automatically stretches the image to fill the screen and does a heck of a better job compared to the hardware stretch in MAME 32. Plus, you can program the the Gforce 3 card to run all those oddball resolutions (see site above). No more need to stretch and reposition in advance mame. Go to the page above for comparison of PC hardware stretch vs the Tview stretch, there's no comparison.

If you are going to use the Tview, you have to get the Tview SXGA as it has an Svideo connector with 7 pins instead of the normal 4 (Gold and Silver do not work as they only have a 4 pin connector).  The extra pins allow you to output a SCART signal through this connector.  The pins go as follows:
1,2-ground
3- red
4 - blue
5 - +5V
6 - Csync
7 - green

To get this SCART mode you have to switch dip switch #2 on the Tview to on. You leave dip switch #1 off so that even though you are sending out a SCART signal through this connector, you are doing it with NTSC timings.  

Ok, connect the R,G,and B from the tview into pins 1, 2, and 3 on the D-15 VGA cable (I bought a male D15 connector from radioshack for this purpose). Connect ground from the tview to pin 5 on the D-15 VGA cable.  You then connect the other end of the VGA cable to the JPAC so you can amplify the RGB signal to increase the brightness.

Now here is the problem, the Csync signal while present runs at about 0.3V peak to peak and so is not enough to drive the sync of the arcade monitor. I am still not sure what the ideal solution is yet, but regardless you have to amplify it.  Possibility #1 is to take the signal and put it through an LM1881 (details on the PC2JAMMA site). You could also use the actual composite out from the Tview and route it through the LM1881 to get the Csync, but haven't tried that yet either as I haven't received my order yet from Digikey. Here's what I did find at radioshack in the meantime: the LM386 Audio Amplifier. This amp has a built in gain of 20 which is more than we need, but will bring the Csync signal up to TTL levels. Connect pins 2 and 4 on the LM386 to ground, pin 6 to +5V, pin 3 to the Csync signal, leave pins 1, 7, and 8 unconnected. Then connect pin 5 from the LM386 to pin 15 on the D-15 VGA connector.  I also have 0.1 uf caps on the LM386 from pin 3 on the LM386 to ground, and from Pin 6 on the LM386 to ground for noise filtering.  

So you don't need the Csync from the JPAC as you already have it. So, you have to tape over pin P on the JPAC which is where the Csync would normally come from. I then jump over from pin 15 on the D15 connector on the JPAC (turn the JPAC over) to the wire coming from pin P and wallah you have a good Csync signal.

Mind you this is probably not the best solution, but it a) works and b) can be made from parts from Radioshack.

Let me know if anyone finds this useful or not.  I'll answer any questions on parts that might be confusing

Anyway, I'm happy to say it all works and is a heck of alot better than my original Averkey. Castle Wolfenstein, Jedi Power Battles, and MAME here I come.

[tetsu96]

Well I'm glad that I helped out a little bit.  And it seems that you've worked out the csync issue as well which is totally cool.  

I'm assuming you're talking about the TView Micro SXGA.  I'll pick one of those up and try it in my cabs too, see if I can duplicate those results...  I wonder why you didn't use the scart connector on the Tview Gold however (or is that only 4 pin like the svid?)?

For all the people who think that Scan Converters make the video quality look like ass (and I'm one of them if the scan converter doesn't run the games @ their native resolution), here's some direct links to pictures comparing image qualities (Video Card HW stretch vs TView HW stretch)...

With Video Card HW stretch:
http://www.trouble-makers.com/kami/emulation/hw1.jpg
http://www.trouble-makers.com/kami/emulation/hw2.jpg

With TView HW stretch:
http://www.trouble-makers.com/kami/emulation/nohw1.jpg
http://www.trouble-makers.com/kami/emulation/nohw2.jpg

Ok, for those of you who hate scan converters, just click the back icon on your browser and move on. For those of you who like the idea, keep reading.

[ophtho]

Yes, the device I used was the Tview micro SXGA.

I didn't use the Tview Gold as 1) they didn't have it at CompUSA 2) looking at the website it seems the SCART for the Tview Gold and Silver are both 4 pin (could be wrong on that). I would have liked the Tview Gold as it has the remote control, and it is just a little higher priced than the Tview Micro. FYI SCART doesn't automatically mean RGB as it can take in a S-video Y/C signal or even a crappy composite signal.

The solution I gave is not perfect. The screen when adjusting resolutions rolls vertically once and then stabilizes. You might have to play with the vertical hold a little. Also, to get the perfect balance for MAME games (high brightness and contrast) and Windows text (low brightness and contrast for legibility) can take a little while. There are controls on the monitor itself, the tview, and even in windows for all these settings.  It took an hour to get it the way I wanted it. Finally, not all games work on the Match game to monitor refresh rate, sync to monitor refresh settings in the advanced menu of MAME32. However, if you turn off those features on select games they will work.

I am still waiting to try the LM1881 once it arrives to see if it offers any better solution. But what I have works for now. I will post once I get more info.

[tetsu96]

Finally, not all games work on the Match game to monitor refresh rate, sync to monitor refresh settings in the advanced menu of MAME32. However, if you turn off those features on select games they will work.

Well shoot, you could just download my MAME compile if you want everything to sync up to 60Hz (yeah, I know it's slightly less than 100% faithful to the arcades, but if you gotta sync up to 60Hz anyway)...  

[CthulhuLuke]

How much did those TVView things cost you with the s-video cable?  
 cause I would like to know Tetsu exactly what video card that is you're showing in your screenshot, and what kind of input from the computer to the TV does the TvView require?  S-video, Vga cables, audio cables, etc.
 I'm still trying to research whether to get an ATI video card with S-video out or to get a scan convertor, but it appears some of those scan convertors cost soooooo much freakin money, like in the 300s, I'm like damn!  That's more than the TV itself.
 Also, what kind of TV are you using in that screenshot, and are the plug-ins from the scan convertor to the TV the same cables and everything as the plug ins from the video card to the TV?
 -um, sorry to be so inquisitive, but this is a lot of money I'm going to be investing, so I really would like to know specifics and what not.  I'm not very easily persuaded to either side at this point, so one has to easily outweigh the other for me to be biased.
 -Luke

[tetsu96]

Well, I got the TView Gold (runs about $150, maybe less on ebay) which is probably a bit overkill for MAME (uses the same chip for conversion as the SXGA but has a bit more memory so it can convert up to 1600x1200 to TV, not that you'd want to).  The GFX card is a TNT2 Ultra (should be pretty cheap nowadays)  All the cables I needed were included with the TView, I'm using the included s-video, and audio is a seperate thing.

The TV is a 36" Wega (standard res, not HDTV) - it does so much for the picture quality...  and it really shows up things like hardware stretch (hope the pictures told the story well, it's hard to take good pics of a TV image).

The scan converter is not perfect though - there's minor issues with video syncronization (you might notice slight tearing in SF vs XMen during super jumps and things of that nature) but the video looks just like the arcade.  The NeoGeo games, which are my favorites, look even better than when I owned a Neo Gold home system (used composite video to hook into TV).

And the TView has 1 quirk I've noticed in windows gaming - games that change resolutions and display in letterbox format usually end up being resized incorrectly - diablo2 being the one I have in mind.  This is actually what is so cool about the converter - it'll resize any image close to full screen to what the converter thinks it should be.  That means that Neo Geo games will run full screen once the converter stretches the image without having to add any custom resolutions (although you have to add the 384x224 resolution for the capcom games).

As far as the more expensive scan converters go, I've got a Scan Pro Do 1024 and a Extron VSC100 running in my cabs, and I briefly hooked them up to the TV to compare them to each other.  Ironically, the TView seems to have the most ability as far as displaying the games @ their native resolutions.  The others more often go out of their scanning range when I try to use them without HW stretch.  If you do use the HW stretch though, they produce a slightly more artifact free image @ 640x480 and higher.

But I tell you what - if you play with this setup games running @ 60Hz, it looks about as close the arcade as I've ever gotten in windows...  or DOS for that matter (DOS MAME was always a bit jumpy on my computer for some reason).

[Andy Warne]

It might be worth mentioning that the J-PAC amplifies the sync as well as the video, so if you needed to amplify the SCART sync this channel could be used.
There is another problem though, SCART does not have composite sync, it's actually composite video, so you may need the LM3881 anyway to separate the sync. Depends on how forgiving the monitor is about having video with it's sync.

[ophtho]

Thanks, that's good to know about the JPAC.  I know SCART does not have a Csync per se. However, I think the signal coming out of the SCART/S-video connector is a true CSYNC signal rather than just a composite masquerading as a CSYNC. Without a scope in my hands to look at it I can't be sure, but looking at the FS400 (the chip behind the Tview) schematics from Focus it sure looks like this is a true signal.  Cvideo is a different line off of the chip and is not routed to the SCART connector as best I can tell.

Inside the TView micro box there is also an TVHsync and TVVsync signal off of the FS400 that are potential candidates to tap out and stick into the JPAC.  I might have to just try that. Andy, I was wondering what would happen (assuming its a true Csync signal) if you just route Csync into the Hsync and Vsync inputs on the JPAC. It would sure make it easier. TV timings are not my forte so this is probably a stupid suggestion.

Anyway, thanks for your input, I'll keep playing until I come up with the best remedy for this.

[ophtho]

Ok, if you don't want to go to the trouble of building an amplifier circuit and are a little adventurous you can tap out CSYNC directly from the FS401 chip inside the Tview.  First, undo the screw located underneath the black CE tag towards the front of the box.   Next use a screwdriver to pry in at the sides of the box towards the rear. Gently press and you will open the box without too much difficulty.  Goodbye warranty !

Next locate Pin 20 on the FS401 chip, the big one in the middle of the board. I will assume that you have turned the box so that you can read the writing on the FS401 chip rightside up such that the rear of the box (where the VGA cable comes out of is towards you and the front of the box where the buttons are are away from you). Pin 20 is just to the right of the number 8 in the word K5038 printed on the FS401 at the bottom of the chip. You can also count this out yourself as the bottom left corner of the FS401 chip where you see a dimple on the chip is pin 1, and the bottom right corner is pin 30. To help you out Pin 21 and 22 are jumped together and you can see this on the board itself. You can actually trace the Pin 20 lead over to the second row of resistors/capacitors closer to you, where there are three brown colored resistor/capacitor and a 4th one next to them colored black and labeled with the number 115. The place to solder to is the end of that 115 resistor that is closer to the FS401 and thus closer towards the front of the box.  You could solder to the FS401 directly but seems much more precarious to me.

There is no need to modify the output of this signal as it is TTL already. And wallah, you have your CSYNC. Hook it directly to the CSYNC of your arcade monitor.  Good luck.

I can email pics to anyone who wants them showing exactly where to solder. Let me know.

paul

[MrTomcat]

Ok, if you don't want to go to the trouble of building an amplifier circuit and are a little adventurous you can tap out CSYNC directly from the FS401 chip inside the Tview.

[MrTomcat]

Thanks, that's good to know about the JPAC.

[ophtho]

Nope, no clue. And its odd because the connector to the PC VGA card has a passthru on the connector itself. So there really isn't any need for this. I have no idea what the timings are out of that extra port, or even what the pinout it. Perhaps its worth emailing off the Tview to find out.

A few updates to add to the original plan

1) If anyone needs the picture of where to solder this in, please let me know and I'll forward it to them.  I can also forward it to someone to host on their site.

2) FYI, to get the Tview to autoexpand NeoGeo games and such to full screen, you have to change the refresh rate settings in MAME32 to 70hz. Don't know why, but if you don't do this it doesn't autoexpand correctly. You don't need this on all games, just some. So try it if you have a black border.

2.5) Also, on rotated games (meant to originally be played on a vertical monitor ie PacMan, DigDug, etc) the autoexpand to full screen only works on some, rather than all games. PacMan,DigDug etc work fine, but 1941 is squished horizontally. Perhaps with using custom resolutions as tetsu shows how on his site you can get around this problem. But I haven't tried it yet. For those games that I have problems in  I just use hardware stretch in MAME32.

3) If you are turning on your equipment for the first time, the picture may be all yellow. Just unplug the Tview and plug it back in and it will fix itself.

4) There is a noticeable flicker using this device on its best setting. If you use the built in autostretch features of MAME32, the flicker goes away, but the pic is not as clear. If you use different flicker filter settings on the Tview it works too, however once again a little fuzzy. I think that this is just an inherent issue that is not due to the Tview itself but occurs in Advmame and such anytime you use 60Hz refresh rates as most games do. Not sure though so I would be interested in any feedback regarding screen flicker with those dos based/ non scan converter solutions.  The tview may have some role in this as I think the flicker is exaggerated, but I could be wrong.

[MrTomcat]

I'm very interested in your soldering diagram. Post it up!
Also, on your earlier post you showed the pin assignments for the SCART/Svid connector. I'm assuming the numbering you use is from top left pin to bottom right pin, looking at the connector ?

Have you found any way of minimising the occasional 'ripples' that I guess are inherent in the way the scan converter works ?

[tetsu96]

That's actually an inaccurate assumpition on the pinout.  From the top, I think it was BGR going from L to R, and the bottom is Ground, CVideo, +5V and Ground, I could be mistaken (I'm going from memory).   I wired it up but don't have my picture yet and haven't troubleshot it a lot yet...  Seems like the Sync is right because there's a flicker when I switch the PAL / NTSC Dip, but there's stil no picture...  I think because the scan converter I used previously I wired all the Ground leads on the PC together there might be an issue, I'm going to hook Pin5 (ground, not RGround, BGround, etc) straight to the Ground on the TView and see if that does it...

And ophtho, that VGA socket is labeled SCART output on the TView Gold as an FYI.

BTW - Vertical games I play rotated or I use HW stretch.  There's some resolutions which fill correctly but it's tricky when the converter wants to go full screen.  As far as the Neo Geo games go, they go full screen correctly on my TView Gold, but I see what you mean with the Micro.  It's definately quirky...

Here's a pic which shows it opened up and soldered.  It's a little blurry, but should get you where you need to be...:

[tetsu96]

As far as misc issues go, the flicker can be reduced but not eliminated insofar as I know.  60Hz games work the best and it might be possible to eliminate them with flicker settings but I'm not familiar with the SXGA well yet.  I recompile my MAME to run games @ 60Hz anyway so it's a good combination although there is slight ripple in certain games (notably CPS2 games).

And I was also planning on putting up a guide on how to do this on MAMETweakerZ as well once I got my SXGA setup working, so if you want opth, I can host the original picture on my site as well (it's slightly clearer than my pics).  Let me know...

[ophtho2]

To clarify the pinout, it looks as follows looking at it on end on the Tview


   xx    xx
x    xxx   x
x   4 7 3    x
x  2 6 5 1  x
 x           x
   x xxxx

1,2-ground  
3- red  
4 - blue  
5 - +5V  
6 - Csync  
7 - green

Pinout on the VGA in case you were wondering is

1 red
2 green
3 blue
5 ground
13 horizontal sync
14 vertical sync

with the layout of the VGA connector (look on the connector itself as they are often numbered next to the pins:

01 02 03 04 05
  06 07 08 09 10
11 12 13 14 15

So the connection from the Tview to VGA is:

Tview    VGA
  3          1
  2          2
  4          3
  1          5

I then connect the VGA connector to the JPAC, make sure that the connection from pin # P from the JAMMA connector is cut and run that soldered Csync wire out from inside the Tview directly to the monitor Csync (the cut end of the wire that came off of pin #P

Allright. Hope that clears up things a bit

[ophtho2]

And yes Tetsu, you are more than welcome to post my pic at your site if you think it helps

[ophtho2]

oops, screwed up at the end, the connections from Tview to VGA are as follows:

Tview    VGA
  3          1
  7          2
  4          3
  1          5

To clarify the pinout, it looks as follows looking at it on end on the Tview

[D]

Okay, I think that I am following this discussion here.  However, I do not have the knowledge to completely understand what is actually occuring.  

I too want to run Windows and MAME on an arcade monitor.  26in. Nanano to be exact.

Could someone recap this discussion?  At one point Tetsu says to just compile mame at 60hz.   What results will this/does this have with using the TView?  As anyone tried the LM1881?  

I guess what I am asking is . . . I'd like to use the TView but don't really want to crack the case and start soldering.  

Any other suggestions?

[ophtho2]

To summarize, the easiest route to using this device is to crack the case.  Its far easier to make one solder connection on the board (its a really easy one at that) than to try to build a mini amplifier circuit. I never did get around to using the LM1381 because this was just so much easier and direct.

So you get the R,G,B,ground connections from the SCART connector on the Tview and the CSync from that soldered connection inside the Tview box.  The R,G,B, and ground go to the JPAC as I showed (don't really have to do this as the JPAC just amplifies the signal and makes it brighter), and the CSync goes directly to the Csync on the monitor itself (cut the wire coming off the JPAC JAMMA connector  that goes out to the Csync for the monitor).  

There you have it.

If you are too nervous, just wait until Tetsu gets a summary up on his site.

Recompiling MAME is not really necessary. I didn't recompile and it works just fine.  

Just follow the directions given in my last email and it should work like a charm.

[Pegasus37]

Hate to interject something on scan converters when it isn't this wonderful Tview  :-/, but I do have a question since you've mentioned AVerKey products... I have my project VERY close to completion , all I have to do is wire the control panel to my IPAC4 and OptiPAC and connect everything together (Controls to PC and PC to my Wells Gardner U2000 arcade monitor my cab came with). I decided to go the scan converter route, since I too would like to use the system as a PC and use other games and emulators on it too. I didn't know about the Tview though when I bought mine, and picked up an AVerKey300 Gold. Has anyone used this specific AVerKey scan converter :-/? I know it would be normally a dim output if I just used the signal straight from the converter to my monitor, since it outputs 0.7Vpp instead of the higher 3-5 Vpp the monitor needs. I did pick up one of Andy Warne's (thanks for your great products Andy!   ) video amplifiers that should boost the signal into the range I need and thus eliminate the dim problem. Optho, you mentioned other AVerKey converters and didn't seem to have a high opinion of the results . Anything anybody can comment on the AVerKey300 Gold would be helpful (as long as you aren't slamming me for making a decision you may think is bad, please be helpful/constructive vs. derrogatory/detrimental) . I may end up switching in future to a different monitor like the U3100 or D9200, or possibly just get a better scan converter like the TView products. Let me know what you think (and again, please be helpful/constructive! I know this is a hotly debated topic and lots of people have strong opinions one way or the other!).

(Added the smileys for the heck of it , for those of you who think I went overboard, well, you have the right to your opinion... )

Pegasus37

[Totoro]

I've just got an arcade cabinet, and of course I want connect my pc on it   (sorry for my bad english (i'm french   ))
I read all your messages and I would like know if I have understant all good:
Gforce -> Tview -> Jpac -> arcade monitor

Is the Jpac need??

Can I made:
Gforce -> Tview -> arcade monitor ??

If yes, I need to add a wire like on the diagram of Testsu96, and what other??

Where I can buy The Tview on the net?? ( a serious retailer, please)... I can't found the Tview in France  :-/

thanks
fred.

[MrTomcat]

I've just got an arcade cabinet, and of course I want connect my pc on it

[Carsten Carlos]

2) You still have the problem of connecting up your controls. Without the JPAC you would probably have to go the hacked keyboard route and have all the problems with masking/ghosting etc. Lots of soldering and messing around.

Basically save yourself a lot of pain and buy a JPAC!

Some mix up here, that's the I-Pac and not the J-Pac he is speaking of in this paragraph.

The J-Pac is for connection to the arcademonitor, the I-Pac is basically a perfect keyboard-encoder. And yes, you should get an I-Pac! (or something similar)

[ophtho3]

Nice to see that there is still some interest out there in this setup

Quotes: "As an aside, I have the tview micro XGA and couldn't get it working properly with my cab. Picture was rolling all the time and the colours were off so I gave up on it and just picked up an old trident blade 3d instead."

Hmm, am I the only one to get this working ?  I haven't heard anything back from Tetsu on this.  I would hate to think I led everyone down a bad path.

WRT the rolling and off colors it is highly monitor dependent. On my Toshiba monitor I have to adjust the vert hold and then it works just fine, rolling once when opening up a new game and then stabilizing. On my Nanao monitor it is stable as a rock without adjustment

WRT to the off colors, you should know that you initially get a yellow tinted screen when booting up the PC. All you have to do is turn off the Tview and then turn it back on and the colors are perfect for as long as the PC is on.  I'm not sure if that was what you were referring to by your color problems.

Yes, this is not the perfect solution by any stretch and if MAME is the only thing you want I think the Trident was probably the better choice.  However, I can assure everyone it does work and on multiple arcade monitors I have tried. Its unfortunate that its so finnicky.

One other downside you should all know to this product  is that when things are moving across the screen you can get some intermittent  breakup of the sprites with some pixels turned black in the sprite and a few trailing pixels behind the sprite.  I am certain this is specific to the converter as I get the problem in windows games too. It isn't THAT bad, but it is noticeable.

WRT the Averkey 300. I can't say for sure what that box can and can't do. As I stated before my other Averkeys were dim without the amplifier and whited out when using the JPAC amplifier so you would need to somehow adjust the gain of Andy's amplifier to make it useful. The other problem was that it could not fit a picture on the screen and overscanning to fit it really trashed the picture by dropping lines. Perhaps they fixed these probs in their new converters, perhaps not. Only way to know for sure is to try it

Finally, "Gforce -> Tview -> Jpac -> arcade monitor". Yes, this is what you realistically need. You "could" just use  Tview to arcade monitor but as was pointed out the screen would be very dim.  What you really need the JPAC more for though is simply for the keyboard encoding. If you are going to give up on the JPAC at least get the IPAC.

Any more questions ? I'd be happy to answer them.

[D]

So, optho -- when are you selling "hacked" Tviews for us non electrical folks?  (hint hint)

[ophtho3]

Ok, if anyone really wants one of these,  and I'll gladly make it for them for $15 over whatever cost is.  I just want to help out since there seems to be interest here. Thats just to cover my time. If you already bought one and can't get it to work, then you can arrange to send it to me and I'll check it out and make the mods.  If it ends up being alot of people who want one I'll even go down to $10 over cost.  Granted I can't honestly do more than 3 of these a week given my other time commitments. Also, I am still trying to find a supplier of the svideo cable with 7 pins so I can splice together a svideo to VGA cable to feed into the JPAC for myself.  And given my whopping experience of two arcade monitors, I have no idea if this will or will not work on your system.  Finally, even if I make it, it will still require you to snip one wire (the video sync line) on the JAMMA harness connector, strip that wire end,  and screw on a connector I'd give you to connect from the Tview to the monitor directly.  So its not entirely straightforward.

With all that preamble aside, just email me at the link for this post and let me know if you want one or not. I can get some idea of what this will involve and how many want it. The cost would be around ($120 for Tview SXGA [need to look at Micro but don't think it will work in which case cost would only be $80] + $10 for svideo to VGA cable [handmade by me] + $5 for extra connector fittings from Tview to monitor for the sync line + $15 for all the soldering I need to do +$5-10 shipping = $140-170 (ie NOT CHEAP !).  I will do this one at a time first to make sure it works for each person before mass producing it for others.  The best people initially would be Mr Tomcat and Tetsu96 if they haven't gotten it working since they already bought the damn Tview and could send it to me if need be. Please remember that this is not the panacea for all your video woes and has some problems which I hope I have detailed sufficiently.

I'll try and post something more definitive in terms of writeup to Tetsu's site in the next couple of weeks with pictures and all if he'll host it for me.

[MrTomcat]

Optho, to elaborate on my problem. I was running the tview with the LM386 amp circuit you described earlier, and then bridging the
csync over onto the jamma connector. My original intention was to be able to run windows 2000 so I could use Emuwizard/MAME/Daphne
in my cab, but at the moment I am just running ArcadeOS/MAME with a trident blade3d graphics card instead.

Sync Problem: This picture was rolling, rolling quick! Normally when my cab is hooked up to the trident3d its dead easy to adjust a
rolling picture, just a few twiddles on the vert. or horiz. hold and its fixed. What I was seeing with the tview was that these
controls became incredibly sensitive and the tiniest movement of the pot produced a massive opposite-to-opposite rolling effect. A
passing gust of wind would've been enough to knock it out of sync! (had I ever got the image stable, which proved impossible).
Maybe this means my amplified csync is not good. I have no oscilloscope or technical know-how to determine whether this is the
case.

Colours problem: Colours were correct, but washed out. I take on board your comment regarding the yellow tint that can be fixed by
turning the tview off and on again, but this is not it. Now I come to think of it the image also showed some interference patterns.
Kind of like a tv running off an aerial with poor signal strength.

[ophtho3]

Hmm. Yeah, I think it might be the little circuit you made. It was a pretty attempt on my part to make an amplifier circuit.  However, it does seem very monitor specific so I can't know for sure.  I already know that the connection from Tview to monitor is not initially in sync when turning on, so different monitors may or may not be able to sync that signal.  And I also know that my other monitor does roll once when switching to a new game, but then stabilizes, while my new monitor is perfect from the start with no roll..

If you want me to make that solder connection for you, and see if that helps, email me at that address in my last message. Since I feel bad I sucked you into this, I'll do it at no charge.  You just have to send me the Tview

FYI for others that are interested I have finally found some  Svideo to VGA cable that I can wire up to make a decent cable from the Tview to JPAC.  I am going to try to see if the LM1881 circuit (which I never built) will do the job or not. If so I will try to make a cable with the circuit built in for others to use (no soldering needed then). I'll send it to you MrTomcat to try out when I get it done and see what it does on your cab.  I'd like to make this as easy as possible for others to use as I think it is a decent and cheap solution for running windows on your cab.

Optho, to elaborate on my problem. I was running the tview with the LM386 amp circuit you described earlier, and then bridging the
csync over onto the jamma connector. My original intention was to be able to run windows 2000 so I could use Emuwizard/MAME/Daphne
in my cab, but at the moment I am just running ArcadeOS/MAME with a trident blade3d graphics card instead.

Sync Problem: This picture was rolling, rolling quick! Normally when my cab is hooked up to the trident3d its dead easy to adjust a
rolling picture, just a few twiddles on the vert. or horiz. hold and its fixed. What I was seeing with the tview was that these
controls became incredibly sensitive and the tiniest movement of the pot produced a massive opposite-to-opposite rolling effect. A
passing gust of wind would've been enough to knock it out of sync! (had I ever got the image stable, which proved impossible).
Maybe this means my amplified csync is not good. I have no oscilloscope or technical know-how to determine whether this is the
case.

Colours problem: Colours were correct, but washed out. I take on board your comment regarding the yellow tint that can be fixed by
turning the tview off and on again, but this is not it. Now I come to think of it the image also showed some interference patterns.
Kind of like a tv running off an aerial with poor signal strength.

[ophtho3]

Correct that line that says "it was a pretty attempt" to read "it was a pretty BAD attempt"

[Pegasus372]

(I'm really Pegasus37, just having problems staying logged in!)

HELP!!!  

Well, my cabinet SHOULD be done, but I can't get any picture on my arcade monitor! (Tetsu, this'll look pretty familiar, I cut & pasted from my email to you, BTW, thanks for any help you can give!). I'm running my VGA out from my AOpen NVidia GeForce MX400 64MB card into an Averkey 300 Gold scan converter. I have the PC monitor connected to the VGA passthru, and have the SCART output connected to the Wells Garnder U2000 arcade monitor that came with my cabinet. Basically I used the pinout I found at

http://www.hut.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/vga2tv/rgb_commercial.h

To run the R, G, B, and CSync signals from the SCART output to the video amp Andy Warne sells at his www.ultimarc.com website (not the JPAC, just the amp). From there I have a vga cable I cut in half and soldered the wires for R, G, B, CSync, and Ground to a JAMMA fingerboard, and then into the JAMMA connector where it should pass these onto the monitor. In turning the system on, I get my picture as normal on the PC monitor, but just a black screen with some small dark fuzz on it. Not the white snow, just some funny dark black fuzz. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong, or what I need to do to get this to work? If I have to buy a new scan converter, I will, so long as it isn't more than $150 (ie the TView converters). I'd prefer to use what I have currently if possible.

PLEASE HELP!
Pegasus37

[tetsu96]

It sucks when real life takes time away from your hobbies...

Anyhow, I never quite completed hooking up my TView to my Impress yet.  I soldered the Sync no problem, and have the RGB and Ground running through the JPac's Video Amp, but I get a black screen which seems responsive to changing vs PAL / NTSC timings but still doesn't display an image.  All my grounds are still wired together, and I haven't had the time to disconnect all but the db15 ground (pin5 if I remember offhand).  Maybe if you've got an extra wire hack done you could share the love so I can finish...  

At any rate, I'd be happy to host your work on my web site.  Shoot me a PM or email and we'll work out the details.

[ophtho]

Here are my updated (latest and greatest) scan converter instructions that I also posted in another thread. For the adventurous they are as follows:


1. Buy a Tview Micro SXGA (Tview Micro itself will not work, but Tview Micro XGA will probably work as well). Its about $150 new, but you can probably get it cheap off of ebay.

2. There are 4 dip switches on the side of the Tview. Set the configuration as follows (running from left to right).  #1 (off - down) #2 (on - up) #3 (off - down) #4 (off - down)

3. Buy a cable from me, or.....

There is a 7 pin video connector on the Tview. Looking directly at it, the pinout is as follows:

  xx     xx
x     xxx   x
x   4 7 3    x
x  2 6 5 1  x
 x            x
   x xxxx

1,2-ground  
3- red  
4 - blue  
5 - +5V  
6 - Csync  
7 - green

Pinout on the VGA in case you were wondering is

1 red
2 green
3 blue
5 ground
13 horizontal sync
14 vertical sync

with the layout of the VGA connector (look on the connector itself as they are often numbered next to the pins:

   01 02 03 04 05
06 07 08 09 10
   11 12 13 14 15
 
So the connection from the Tview to VGA is:

Tview                           VGA
  3                                  1
  7                                  2
  4                                  3
  1                                  5
Soldered Csync            13
from inside tview
(see below)

or alternatively (with amplification from a LM1881 circuit)

Tview                                                     VGA
  3                                                             1
  7                                                             2
  4                                                             3
  1                                                             5
  6 -> pin 2 of LM1881 circuit          pin 1 of LM1881-> 13
  (see below)

LM1881 circuit http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/lm1881.htm

(To power the LM1881 circuit you can use pin 5 and pin 1 off of the Svideo connector. ).

3. The Csync issue:  As per above you can get a 5V Csync from inside the Tview, or alternatively amplify the (0.3 V) Csync from the svideo connector (pin 6) on the Tview using a LM1881.

If you use the inside Csync, you need to get the scan converter open. First, undo the screw located underneath the black CE tag towards the front of the box.   Next use a screwdriver to pry in at the sides of the box towards the rear. Gently press and you will open the box without too much difficulty.  Goodbye warranty !

Next locate Pin 20 on the FS401 chip, the big one in the middle of the board. I will assume that you have turned the box so that you can read the writing on the FS401 chip rightside up such that the rear of the box (where the VGA cable comes out of is towards you and the front of the box where the buttons are are away from you). Pin 20 is just to the right of the number 8 in the word K5038 printed on the FS401 at the bottom of the chip. You can also count this out yourself as the bottom left corner of the FS401 chip where you see a dimple on the chip is pin 1, and the bottom right corner is pin 30. To help you out Pin 21 and 22 are jumped together and you can see this on the board itself. You can actually trace the Pin 20 lead over to the second row of resistors/capacitors closer to you, where there are three brown colored resistor/capacitor and a 4th one next to them colored black and labeled with the number 115. The place to solder to is the end of that 115 resistor that is closer to the FS401 and thus closer towards the front of the box.  You could solder to the FS401 directly but seems much more precarious to me. A picture of this is shown below



4. And finally, remove the small chip on the JPAC.  The Csync is 15khz so you won't destroy your arcade monitor.

5. You will have to turn the Tview off and on when you reboot the computer as initially you get a picture that is entirely readable but has the red, green, and blue all slightly staggered from one another producing a yellow picture. Turn the Tview off and on again and it fixes itself and gives a beautiful pictue that is better than what I get with the G400.

May not be the solution you are looking for, but it is a good one for people looking to run Windows Xp on their JAMMA machine. Plus you aren't stuck using an old video card (the cab with the Tview in it is running a Gforce Ti 200 in it so I can play wolfenstein.

Hope that helps

[ophtho]

Ok everyone, I am resurrecting this thread to provide both an update and announce that I will make anyone that wants it a cable that goes directly from the Tview SXGA over to the JPAC, no muss, no fuss, hook it in and you have Windows on an arcade monitor.  Only thing you have to do is to remove the smaller chip on the JPAC and you are good to go.  If you try it and it doesn't work then send it back and you get your money back. I want $30 for the cable (parts alone are $20 and my time I figure is worth $10).  PM if you are interested. It will take a while to get parts and such so don't expect it for a month and I wouldn't want any money until I actually ship it to you.

Yes, its not for everyone. Yes, most of you want to wait for Andy's solution which is great and all of us have been waiting for. And no I don't absolutely guarantee it will work which is why I offer the money back guarantee. The only people who might want this route are those that a) have the Tview already b) want to run in the Dreamcast, Xbox, etc into their JAMMA cabinet and can't be bothered to do the hack of the VGA box to get it to work c) want adjustable flicker settings depending on what you are trying to run in Windows d) like the automatic resizing that the Tview does of graphics (see Tetsu's site). d) Have a Nvidia card and want to use it to play games on your arcade monitor (andy is going the Radeon route).

I do think some will want to try this route which is why I offer it

[ophtho]

Doesn't seem like there are any takers on this, which is fine.  Anyway, I have tracked down all the parts and prices and total now comes out to $15 per cable + postage to get it to you (I'm guessing $2.50). I make about $3.50, which is hardly worth it to me, but I'd like to see others who are willing to give this a try. Doesn't involve changing the Tview in any way at all so you can return it to the store if it doesn't work for you.

Also, it appears, but is not verified, that the Tview Micro XGA will work as well. FYI Tview Gold/Silver will not work as they do not put out an RGB signal.

Again PM me if you are interested, otherwise I will let this thread die its own natural death. Just trying to help anyone out in the same predicament as me.

[freeman]

Hello,

in easy vocabulary, what i must to buy, tview gold or xga and why?

Thanks guys

PS: too hard to be a noob when you want an arcade at home

[AndyWarne]

I hesitated before posting, as I always think new solutions need credit but I hope this will be taken as intended, as a purely technical observation rather that an advert for my product: I can't help but think that this has no benefits over the ArcadeVGA card, and several drawbacks, one of which being it is more expensive.
Ok I'll shut up now...

Andy

[tom61]

in easy vocabulary, what i must to buy, tview gold or xga and why?

Niether. Get the ArcadeVGA instead, and spend the money you save on something else. The ArcadeVGA is as close to the real games as you can get right now when it comes to video.