So .... Windows 10....

[Howard_Casto]

Well alcove 13 of tertiary adjunct 12 (aka my install of win 7) informed me that windows 10 will soon be available. 

Now mind you I've heard really good things, but I was wondering for anyone that's played with the beta.... how does it do on old, busted software and hardware?  I ask because...well... we mostly deal with old, busted software and hardware in this hobby don't we. 

[Slippyblade]

Judging by Microsoft's history in releases, Win10 will be great.  I'm basing this on their release schedule of "---smurfy---, good, ---smurfy---, good" and Win8 was about as ---smurfy--- as they come.

[keilmillerjr]

Can't tell if the next release will be windows 6.4, 9, or 2015. Where the fvk does 10 come from? M$oft is so stupid.

[wp34]

Can't tell if the next release will be windows 6.4, 9, or 2015. Where the fvk does 10 come from? M$oft is so stupid.

Because 7 ate 9. 

[Howard_Casto]

Can't tell if the next release will be windows 6.4, 9, or 2015. Where the fvk does 10 come from? M$oft is so stupid.

Because 7 ate 9. 

You sir win one internet. 

Seriously though.... the story I've heard is that windows 9 was going to be built upon windows 8, similar to how they've done things in the past (win 95 thru 2000 are virtually the same os), but 8 was such a flop that they went back to the drawing board, scrapped 9 and decided to skip over it to make sure people understand that 10 will be nothing like 8. 

[wp34]

I think you are correct Howard.  Windows 8 is a bit like Vista in that Microsoft wants you to forget it ever existed.

I got a Surface Pro for work two weeks ago and have to tell you I love it.  It is like having an iPad you can also do work on.  Windows 8 really is a great OS for touch and I'm really looking forward to trying Windows 10.

[Howard_Casto]

Well if it actually works, and that's a big IF.. the thing I'm most excited about is the fact that Microsoft is starting to get with the program and they've decided to make win 10 run on ANYTHING and also run apps from virtually every other OS.  It's supposed to run on your laptop, your tablet, your netbook your phone, the raspberry pi, the intel Edison... everything.  It'll run windows apps it'll run android apps, it'll run iOS apps.  I think it'll even do Linux, but don't quote me on that.

So this is just assuming they pull that off, the license is affordable and it isn't some b.s. fake-out like windows 8 RT (not really win 8, just looks like win if I write an app for windows 10 on the desktop, it'll run on anything and I don't have to write another version.  I know some people won't get what a powerful concept that is, but I assure you it is.

The sad thing is, I think if the reception for win 8 had been better we'd already have this... but when you make your desktop os default to it's tablet interface, that's what happens.

[bulbousbeard]

It works fine. MAME and everything works. I could switch over my cabinets to it now, really. I'm just not going to bother until something actually uses Direct3D 12.

[wp34]

The sad thing is, I think if the reception for win 8 had been better we'd already have this... but when you make your desktop os default to it's tablet interface, that's what happens.

This is exactly the problem.  We had Microsoft in for a demo when 8 was released and their reps just couldn't get it through their heads that the Metro interface does not work for desktop use.  They actually expected us to invest in touchscreen monitors for desk workers.  Crazy.

That being said I like the interface on my tablet.

[Howard_Casto]

It works fine. MAME and everything works. I could switch over my cabinets to it now, really. I'm just not going to bother until something actually uses Direct3D 12.

What about the oddball stuff like frontends and ect?

[bulbousbeard]

Compatibility is really good. Mala, Attract Mode, Big Blue still work. Didn't bother with Hyperspin.

[Howard_Casto]

Sounds like we should be ok.  I dunno about my stuff in particular.  Most of my apps are built with VS 6.  Microsoft keeps threatening to pull the plug on those and yet... 15 years later they still work. 

[bulbousbeard]

The only thing that might piss off emulation users is that you're stuck with "Aero" or whatever they want to call it now.

There's no turning off the accelerated GUI. A lot of people don't like that because if you run programs in windowed mode, you will eat more input lag with it.

BSNES, for example, runs in borderless window mode. You'd have to run Retroarch for BSNES in fullscreen exclusive mode.

The other thing is that if you write C# programs, with VS2015 and the new 64bit JIT, you will get significant performance increases building for 64bit now. 64bit programs used to run slower than 32bit programs, but now they're faster with the new JIT.

[Howard_Casto]

Nice to know that after the 7-10 years 64 bit processors have been around there's now actually a reason to compile in 64 bit on the pc. 

[JDFan]

The main gripe I have with it is that MS updates are going to be pushed with no means of delaying their installation and will auto install in the background at any time they want so no way to schedule updates or ensure you've backed up things prior to updating - and given their record of releasing untested patches that have to be fixed and rereleased - I foresee times when your system becomes unstable for some reason and it taking forever to trace it back to some update they pushed without notice. (not to mention the security can of worms that is gonna open up when hackers find ways to force update systems using the windows update services !) - I'd much rather be able to download and install the updates on my schedule rather than be forced to use theirs ! (though it won't be so much of a problem for offline systems - unless they also force using the internet connection on every boot up of the system to verify the license and download updates ala Steam)

[Howard_Casto]

Speaking as a guy that did computer repair for quite some time, 99% of the problems on the mouth breathers' computers came from not updating windows or not updating their anti-virus.  Forced updates, in the long run at least, are a good thing.  Smart people will find a way around the forced updates.... default options on an OS are not for the smart people. 

[EMDB]

Judging by Microsoft's history in releases, Win10 will be great.  I'm basing this on their release schedule of "---smurfy---, good, ---smurfy---, good" and Win8 was about as ---smurfy--- as they come.

You must be kidding. windows 8(.1) is THE best performing Microsoft operating system yet regarding (startup) performance, stability and hardware support. If you can't handle the New UI (aka Metro) start menu you can easily get around it.

[yotsuya]

Judging by Microsoft's history in releases, Win10 will be great.  I'm basing this on their release schedule of "---smurfy---, good, ---smurfy---, good" and Win8 was about as ---smurfy--- as they come.

You must be kidding. windows 8(.1) is THE best performing Microsoft operating system yet regarding (startup) performance, stability and hardware support. If you can't handle the New UI (aka Metro) start menu you can easily get around it.

I had to install Windows 8.1 on my work laptop because I'm going to be teaching teachers how to use it next year, and I have to say I'm really happy with it. Once you get used to the Metro UI, it's not a problem at all.

[pbj]

My only real beef with Windows 8 was I had to install hack upon hack upon hack to get various gamepads, light guns, and such working with it.  I guess Microsoft made it a lot more difficult for vendors to use unsigned drivers... something along those lines.  And, predictably, I can't remember what I did and can't manage to undo it.  So now when I plug in a Kade, I get.... nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  Oh well.

Did finally break down after 2 years and install an app that restored the Start button. 

:-/

[keilmillerjr]

Yep. I hate windows. I quit using it after version 3. However, I might be using it for my arcade machine. I tested xp 7 and 8. 8 was the fastest on my i3. M$oft people ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- a brick at change. You don't have to use metro.

[pbj]

3edgy5me

[Slippyblade]

You must be kidding. windows 8(.1) is THE best performing Microsoft operating system yet regarding (startup) performance, stability and hardware support. If you can't handle the New UI (aka Metro) start menu you can easily get around it.

I keep seeing people say this and have not seen it.  If you have a vanilla system, it boots faster.  The moment you load anything into the system to make it useful, it clunks.  My Win7 install was far faster at boot.  I liked having a nice little menu pop when I hit the system key, now I get a full screen resolution swap tablet touch interface.  Not to mention the fact that I have a "desktop" OS that constantly tries to dump poorly written tablet apps on me.   Win8 may be great on a tablet, I don't know, never used it in that format.  On the desktop, it both sucks and blows.

[Howard_Casto]

It varies from system to system, it really does, so you are most likely both correct.  7 tends to perform better on "normal" hardware and software while win 8 works better on the bleeding edge. 

Overall 8 is probably worse though....  win 7 suffers from a lot of crazy security "features" that just makes it hard to install stuff like unsigned drivers BUT there are workarounds
win 8 seems to be even worse in this regard, but it is by no means as bad as everyone claims it is. 

[jonnylbluejeans]

I got my link for Win10 IOT to try on my Pi2.  I am really looking forward to what I can do with a Pi and Arduino with Win10 Core for IOT.  IMHO, Win8 was this generation's WinME.  Looking forward to 10.

[danielmarokoi]

I will stick with my xp

[Fursphere]

Can't tell if the next release will be windows 6.4, 9, or 2015. Where the fvk does 10 come from? M$oft is so stupid.

Because 7 ate 9. 

I read something about years of legeacy software that looks for Windows 95 / 98, and with Windows 9, it detected such as 95 / 98 (similar to the Win2k problem I suppose).   So instead of trying to get a ton of developers to fix they're software, they just jumped to 10.

[stigzler]

My only real beef with Windows 8 was I had to install hack upon hack upon hack to get various gamepads, light guns, and such working with it.  I guess Microsoft made it a lot more difficult for vendors to use unsigned drivers... something along those lines.

Agreed. I'm sick of that "Test Mode Windows 8.1 Build" watermark at the bottom of my desktop. I'm sure there's a work-around but after the ball-ache process of getting some lightgun driver installed... well .. ya know...

M$ - don't punish us for going off piste and we won't moan if our 'puters blow up. Deal?

[bulbousbeard]

XP isn't going to last, so you'd better keep an eye out for viable replacements. It's just going to get to the point where there aren't good XP drivers for new hardware.

I've already been exploring different APIs for Big Blue because I want to make sure that it keeps trucking. I've already got most of it up and running using Win2D on the Windows 10 trial. Performance is laughably good. I can run it at 7680x4320 locked at 144hz.