Mame HLSL through LED PC monitor vs LCD TV

[Dexter]

Hi all, FINALLY getting back to my hobby, 5 years and 2 kids later, and I need some advice from the experts.....

I've discovered the wonders of Mame HLSL and am looking to use a flatscreen for my next project to give a vewlix style look (with a bit of a twist).

I can get a 32" LED television for around the same price as a 28" PC LED monitor. While the extra 4" of screen would be nice, I'd prefer to get as close to the look of an old CRT arcade monitor as possible with a 1080p display running Mame with HLSL settings.

Can anyone let me know which will work better for the desired look, the PC LED or the LED television.

Thanks

Dexter

[dmckean]

The TV will probably give you better viewing angles. Most PC monitors are TN panels and most TVs are MVA or PVA panels. There are also IPS panel PC monitors that are a good option but probably the most expensive.

[butanebob]

The TV will look better but will have higher input lag than a monitor. A plasma would look even better than an LCD TV because they don't have the motion blur of LCD's which is extremely noticeable in scrolling/2d/arcade games. Plasma's still have the problem of input lag though. No matter what you choose you're going to be compromising unfortunately.

[bulbousbeard]

Plasmas have worse motion blur than 144hz 1ms LCDs that you can buy.

[dmckean]

I know somewhere there's a website that reviews TVs and checks amount of input lag. Some TVs are better for gaming than others.

Make sure you investigate all your CRT options too. 24.8" arcade monitors come up for sale every so often. Converting RBG to component and using TVs with component inputs looks to work well once it's set up. 21" and 22" high resolution computer monitors are also an option, they look pretty believable with HLSL in recent versions of MAME. I got my big Sony CPD-E540 on Craigslist for only $10.

edit: One more thing you can look for CRT-wise is broadcast monitors used by TV stations. They have RBG-HV inputs and sometimes VGA inputs on them. They sold for like $4000 new but you see them on Craigslist in the $100-$400 range now.

[blacketj]

Plasmas have worse motion blur than 144hz 1ms LCDs that you can buy.

I disagree with this.
I have an 8 year old Panasonic and a three year old Samsung plasma TV. And I recently purchased a top tier Asus 144mhz LCD monitor.

The LCD still has noticeable motion blur with fast movement even running a game at a full 144fps. I have never had any motion blur problems with my TVs, and I have done extensive PC gaming on both.

Lack of motion blur is one of the defining characteristics of plasma.

[vicosku]

Lack of motion blur is one of the defining characteristics of plasma.

Agreed.  After purchasing a Panasonic Plasma a couple of years ago, I made variety of posts on forums complaining about my disappointment with its motion blur since part of why I bought it was that there wasn't supposed to be any.  Naturally, I was berated.  It turned out the example I was basing this on was a modern game with a motion blur feature turned on.  After I realized, I turned it off and, of course, there was no motion blur any longer.  Imagine my embarrassment!

[dmckean]

Lack of motion blur is one of the defining characteristics of plasma.

Agreed.  After purchasing a Panasonic Plasma a couple of years ago, I made variety of posts on forums complaining about my disappointment with its motion blur since part of why I bought it was that there wasn't supposed to be any.  Naturally, I was berated.  It turned out the example I was basing this on was a modern game with a motion blur feature turned on.  After I realized, I turned it off and, of course, there was no motion blur any longer.  Imagine my embarrassment!

Lightboost has evened the playing field but at this point it's on TN panels only which still have viewing angle issues, especially vertically. No matter which LCD panel you choose, there's going to be a lot of compromise.

[vicosku]

I can believe that.  I still need to see one of those in action.  The TN panels have kept me away.  My plasma is beautiful, but it's true that the lag is evident.

[bulbousbeard]

Uhh...plasmas have motion blur. It's as clear as day.

[vicosku]

Uhh...plasmas have motion blur. It's as clear as day.

It's not clear as day to myself and others.  I'll concede that various sources claim Plasma has some amount of motion blur compared to CRT, and assume it to be true.  However, I don't know of a source that quantifies it, or directly compares it to other technologies in a scientific way.  Additionally, I am not aware of any source that has claimed there is a display technology that has less motion blur than Plasma besides CRT.  Do you know of any?  I'd be glad to see something like that.  For example, this article describes a sophisticated test method for motion blur, but shows no examples of Plasma.  They merely mention Plasma as superior in a casual way, indicating that its lower motion blur is a foregone conclusion.

http://www.blurbusters.com/motion-tests/motion-blur-photo-examples/

While not everyone cares about motion blur, there are parts of the audience that cares very much, including the Blur Busters audience, as well as plasma motion resolution lovers, and people who miss CRT motion clarity.

If anyone has a detailed analysis of Plasma motion blur vs the best alternative technologies that currently exist, I'd like to see it. 

[dmckean]

Uhh...plasmas have motion blur. It's as clear as day.

Plasma TVs have a problem with motion blur for film based material. Anything shot at 24fps will not play nicely with the TV's 60hz refresh rate. LCDs that are fixed to 60hz also share this problem. The right material (material shot on video and console gaming mostly) will look great on plasma with no motion blur.

I haven't kept up with modern plasma TVs either, they might do a better job with film than they used to. Since the panels scan internally up to 600hz, it's a TV design problem and not a flaw of the panel technology.

[vicosku]

Plasma TVs have a problem with motion blur for film based material. Anything shot at 24fps will not play nicely with the TV's 60hz refresh rate.

Ah, yes.  I watch 24FPS content in my Plasma's 48hz mode to eliminate that effect.  The flickering is noticeable for a while, but you forget about it after watching for some time.  I see no motion blur or judder in this mode.  I guess the higher models have a 96Hz that is supposed to be nicer, but the ones I considered at the time had higher display lag as well. 

[bulbousbeard]

You can run something at 600hz and still have motion blur. Mike Abrash calculated that you'd need over a 1000hz refresh rate to completely eliminate motion blur with a sample and hold display.

Every plasma display out there has motion blur regardless of the media source. I mean, I have a high end plasma display here, and I can load up any game and instantly see it. It's blatantly obvious.

[vicosku]

The Mike Abrash information looks interesting.  I'll have to take some time to absorb it.  Thanks for mentioning it.  However, can you please provide some evidence for the following claim?

Plasmas have worse motion blur than 144hz 1ms LCDs that you can buy.

I'm not against the possibility of Plasma being worse or anything.  I'm just honestly not aware of information that shows another currently existing modern display technology outperforming it in terms of motion blur.  If it's true, great!  Maybe I'll make such a display my next purchase.  I'd assume your statement is based on a comparison among your own displays.  I don't have access to a nice high refresh rate LCD to do a comparison myself, so I hope you'll understand my desire for some other evidence that can be referred to instead.

[dmckean]

vicosku,

Any LCD with Lightboost or other strobing technology will have less motion blur. Read up on it here:

 http://www.blurbusters.com/

It's the same reason Groovymame has black frame insertion.

[nitrogen_widget]

I think 90% of people's issues with displays is in their head.
They've convinced themselves if it doesn't cost twice as much as everything else out there, if it isn't the newest bleeding edge technology with all kinds of mumbo-jumbo technical acronyms attached to it, ect.ect.ect.
it's sub-par.

Until the next new over-priced technology comes out & all of a sudden the super expensive display they bought last year that was as good as you could get & perfect is now just as flawed as the other stuff they turned their noses up at.

I have a cheap-ass 4yr old 50" 720p plasma TV from Target and it is a pleasure to play games on.
I turned on Game mode & away I go.
No Lag, nor blur no nothing that ruins my gaming enjoyment & i've never had anyone else complain about lag or motion blur or anything else either.

[vicosku]

I've educated myself a bit and wanted to reply to this again.  I picked up a BenQ XL2420Z 144hz monitor after testing some low-lag 60hz LCDs (IPS and TN) and being disgusted with the blur.  I didn't realize it was still so bad even on modern LCDs.  Now that I've played with the strobing features of this monitor with the Blur Busters Strobe Utility, I can see the plasma blur that Bulbousbeard was referring to in comparison.  It's less than LCDs at 60hz without strobing and is low enough not to bother me, but it's there.  The overshoot on the LCD seems like it can be a little distracting in 2D material at 60hz, however.  In a lot of cases, I think I'd prefer to play on the Plasma for the vastly superior image quality, but this thing does offer a lot of flexibility and high refresh rate play is really nice, of course.  It's too bad nothing better is easily available yet though.  I just got it, so I'm still testing out what it can do.