2015 lightgun challenge (arcadeguns vs guncon2)

[mikeybionic]

hey arcadecontrols!
i've lurked these boards for years and now here i am.
i have a cab at home with a nice crt pc monitor and i'm going down the lightgun rabbithole.
i ordered both a set of arcadeguns (aimtrack sensorguns) and a guncon2 with some components to make the sync circuit (questions later)
i know the arcadeguns are going to be way more compatible and less of a pain to get set up but a few things bother me.
in all the sensorgun videos i see i notice a slight lag between user and onscreen action.
i also notice that anyone that posts gun game high score vids uses real lightguns.
it leads me to think that real lightguns are still more accurate than sensorguns, hence the challenge.
im gonna need a little help tho.
first is the elusive sync circuit for the guncon2. the original schematic has 404d off the internet but i found this...
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/vga2rgbs.html
it looks promising but a user by the name of ZeroPoint described a circuit he made back in 2007 and it sounds even better!
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,37872.msg699444.html#msg699444
i dont know if this guy is still active around here but if anyone has a copy of his schematic i'd love to see it.
anyway i'll be running to you guys for the next few weeks with my calibration problems until i get em all working.
but in the end i plan on doing some thorough side-by-side testing to get definitive answers about which gun is more accurate.
keep shootin the core yall
-mike

[mikeybionic]

okay i figured out what ZeroPiont was talking about.
i made a theoretical schematic and i'll post a real one when i get all the components to make it work.
its basically a circuit to strip off every other horizontal sync pulse so the guncon2 sees a 15kHz signal.
pretty brilliant idea by ZeroPiont i gotta say!

[SammyWI]

I think it's pretty well known that the CRT based lightguns are more accurate than the lightbar based camera sensor guns like the Aimtrack.  I (and others) have noticed the limitations of the Aimtrack guns that you mention, plus the calibration sensitivity they have with any movement of the gun itself.  Those things have prevented me from really getting much enjoyment from my Aimtracks.

But then as you've found, getting CRT based guns working can be a major challenge.  I've never tried setting up a CRT based system but I do remember the original Nintendo Duck Hunt and that CRT gun was very accurate with no calibration issues.

Right now I'm working on a different gun system to work with a projector setup.  When (OK if) I get it working, I'll post details in the forum.

Good luck with the Guncons.  I still am holding on to a 25" CRT TV just in case I get the CRT gun itch.

[mikeybionic]

okay update
arcadeguns came in about 2 weeks ago and i just got all the ICs to make the guncon circuit (next post).
i ran into a little trouble configuring the arcadeguns with mame cuz i was running one of those "nonag Direct input" builds u get from schetchy spanish sites. turns out the direct input wasnt letting mame distinguish one gun from the other so i sat down and learned to compile my own build with nonoag and regular input. here it is if u want...
http://we.tl/4MHV5CDcA2
(expires in 2 weeks feel free to reup)
first impressions of the arcadeguns is that theyre better than i thought. accuracy shouldnt really be the comparison here as much as tracking speed. there is a lag onscreen that isnt so noticable when configuring on the windows desktop but is in certain games. while the lag is there in varying degrees no matter what games like hotd 2 & 3 (which originally used sensor guns) arcadeguns are fine. its also awesome to play turret-style games like revolution x and terminator.
arecadeguns arent without fault tho. i've already noticed weirdness in jurassic park, alien 3, and chiller (big bummer for me):[  but still arcadeguns: pretty damn cool.
next post guncon2 circuit

[flippn]

Just thought I would throw some of my personal experience in. I have 2 Aimtraks on light a bar. At one time I had them working perfect and then I recently updated everything in hyperspin and have been having troubles ever since. I have one gun working, in windows it looks perfect and in nintendo. In Mame tho I cant get the accuracy back that I had before. It will be dead on one second and "jumpy" or a little off the next. Also in daphne singe the are extremely sensitive and if you move a hair its all over the place. I tried turning down the mouse speed to see if would help but nothing. I have been lurking hyperspin forums, here and google looking for a solution. I love shooters and it's awesome when working so I am dedicated to getting my guns back lol

[BadMouth]

accuracy shouldnt really be the comparison here as much as tracking speed. there is a lag onscreen that isnt so noticable when configuring on the windows desktop but is in certain games. while the lag is there in varying degrees no matter what games like hotd 2 & 3 (which originally used sensor guns) arcadeguns are fine. its also awesome to play turret-style games like revolution x and terminator.

Did you try increasing the sensitivity setting for the game in MAME?
(it's in MAME's in-game "TAB" menu under analog options)

When I set up positional guns, the crosshairs lagged until I increased the sensitivity.
I was only messing with positional gun games though since I had act labs guns for the regular gun games.

[burn_654]

In my experience setting up guncons with wingun, I didn't need a sync separator circuit, perse. Granted I was using a 15khz monitor with a J-PAC. I just wired up a small protoboard with a female rca connector on the jamma sync wire (coming from the J-PAC, it is composite sync) with the sync still going into the monitor. Plugged guns into that and was ready to go.

[mikeybionic]

i've encountered problems with the guncon2 project.
but first shout shouts to,
sammywi, good issue to bring up! one of my roommates is pretty short and hes always complaining about the calibration!
badmouth, u a badman on the forum! thx for the tip about lg sensitivity!
flippn, i've already seen squirelness from the arcadeguns. rebooting has fixed it for me so far.
concerning guncon2, i made the circuit zeropoint described and i get no results!
i'll try cap-coupling it but its a long shot.
wingun says i have a rolling-x gun (which is what the circuit is trying to remedy) :[
smogs drivers yield a little portion of the tracking onscreen but are still too jumpy to be usable.
so far guncon2's got me stumped.
i'll be back w some oscilloscope pics

[Toasty833]

When you say you get rolling X issues with Wingun, does that mean it works aside from that?

The circuit is supposed to just get it working, rolling X is something that all official guncon2's have because they're stuck on 100hz mode. Pick up a PS2 clone gun, one with a USB port, to get rid of that. If the guns are jittery, what resolution are you trying to run them at? Given they're designed for 480p, it's not surprising they go a bit mad at higher resolutions.

I'm also interested in this, I've gotten Guncons working no problem on a regular TV over S-video with an old PC, but it'd be nice to have them on an old PC CRT instead, because you can still run them with new PCs. I'm thinking getting lucky on the Act-labs guns that pop up once in a blue moon might be the only choice, because I've never seen anyone get one of these circuits working.

[Endprodukt]

But then as you've found, getting CRT based guns working can be a major challenge.  I've never tried setting up a CRT based system but I do remember the original Nintendo Duck Hunt and that CRT gun was very accurate with no calibration issues.

The Nintendo Zapper works a little different to real Lightguns. It's a different layout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3tBk-LYyzo&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dc3tBk-LYyzo&has_verified=1