Author Topic: Pinball Emulators (Read 6317 times)

aeroflott · « **on:** December 24, 2003, 07:14:45 am »

Can anyone give me a steer with this?
I'm running MAMEWAH in a 28 inch cabinet, and I'm thinking it would be cool to run some sort of Pinball emulator, so I can play authentic reproductions of classic pinball tables on my cab. I've found something called "PinMame" and "visual pinball", but there seems to be little support/FAQs - so I'm not really sure what I should be downloading or what is available.

Is this even possible at the moment? WHat do I need to download?

Anyone help?

Thanks and merry Xmas to everyone.

Tony

TalkingOctopus · « **Reply #1 on:** December 24, 2003, 12:17:50 pm »

Yes it is very possible. Check out this site: http://www.vpforums.com/

The setup process for pinmame and visual pinball is very annoying. But there are definately some great recreations of tables out there.

namzep · « **Reply #2 on:** December 24, 2003, 12:48:33 pm »

I downloaded the setup instructions to my computer but only after I had spent several hours trying to get it to work without success. If I can find the instructions I'll add to my post and let everyone know where I found them. They proved quite helpful and I had everything set up in only a few minutes.

Jakobud · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2003, 03:19:34 pm »

i've never tried visual pinball or pinmame (is this the same thing) although i have looked into it in the past. Is it actually fun? I mean playing pinball on a monitor just doens't sound that exciting. I don't know how it could ever be anything close to the real thing...

TalkingOctopus · « **Reply #4 on:** December 24, 2003, 11:28:26 pm »

Quote from: Jakobud on December 24, 2003, 03:19:34 pm

i've never tried visual pinball or pinmame (is this the same thing) although i have looked into it in the past. Is it actually fun? I mean playing pinball on a monitor just doens't sound that exciting. I don't know how it could ever be anything close to the real thing...

I didn't like it all that much, but it is they are good as far as PC pinball goes. I did not end up putting it on my cab.

Dave Butler · « **Reply #5 on:** December 25, 2003, 12:12:21 pm »

If you want to run pinball tables. You will need
VPinMAME 'for running pinball ROMS'
and Visual Pinball 'This is the program for running the graphics'.

Goto http://www.vpforums.com/vptables/tables.php
You need to signup to VPForums to download.
Download the following files.

Font Collection 3.8
VBS Scripts v3.10
Visual Pinball TB6.1 (Full install)
VPinMAME 1.30
VPinMAME Samples

Also download a table and the ROM file to test the program.

Now install VPinMAME 1.30 then Visual Pinball TB6.1

You will need to unzip The fonts and VBS Scripts into the tables folder in the Visual PinBall install dir.
And unzip the VPinMAME samples into the samples dir in the VPinMAME install dir.

You now need to unzip the table zip file into the 'TABLES' folder in the visual Pinball directory. And place the ROM zip file into the 'ROMS' folder of VPinMAME.

Now run Visual Pinball and load the table you downloaded, then press F5 to run the table. After Visual Pinball has rendered everything VPinMAME should start and the pinball should be shown on your monitor.

If you want to run Visual Pinball from MAMEWah you will need a wrapper program to run the tables. This can be found here.

http://www.oscarcontrols.com/lazarus/#

Click on wrappers and download Visual Pinball Wrapper 3.0.
In MAMEWah set the wrapper as your emulator. ROM directory as the tables folder in Visual Pinball dir and set the file extention to 'VPT'.

Hope this helps.

aeroflott · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2003, 09:14:20 am »

Thats a big help - thanks. The wrapper is proving a bit of a problem - MAMEWAH can't seem to find it - any ideas on what settings to use in MAMEWAH and where to install the wrapper?

Thanks

T

Minwah · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2003, 11:07:13 am »

Quote from: aeroflott on December 29, 2003, 09:14:20 am

Thats a big help - thanks. The wrapper is proving a bit of a problem - MAMEWAH can't seem to find it - any ideas on what settings to use in MAMEWAH and where to install the wrapper?

Thanks

T

Here's what to do:

1) Set the Emulator Executable to VP-LAUNCH2.EXE (Howards wrapper, in the tables folder)

2) Set the ROM Path to your tables folder

3) Set the ROM Extension to VPT

4) Set the List Generation Method to ROM Folder Only

5) Refresh the list

Make sure at step 1) you place the wrapper in the \tables folder and include the full path to the wrapper.

Auntie MAME · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2003, 05:56:38 pm »

Quote from: namzep on December 24, 2003, 12:48:33 pm

namzep, I love your signature. Care to share the code? Thanks

namzep · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2003, 11:07:53 pm »

You can grab the sig line from here.

AJ · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2004, 05:13:17 am »

Hey everyone... I'm AJ and I run the VPForums site (http://www.vpforums.com) and found this thread through my HTTP Referrers tracking (I like to see what sites are talking about VP/VPinMAME).

I do understand your frustration of trying to setup Visual Pinball (VP) and Visual PinMAME (VPM). It is not the easiest program set to get running! I have created a VP/VPM Installation Guide at http://www.vpforums.com/modules.php?s=&name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=2#5 which helps about 98% of our visitors to get everything running smoothly (the other 2% usually have other issues with their computer and no amount of guidance can help them

).

I haven't had any experience with MAMEWAH and the wrapper of which you're talking about above, but it's things like this that I like to add to VPForums to help make things easier. If anyone can guide me to the site for MAMEWAH (the link for the wrapper is above so I don't need that), I can see about putting a Guide for the procedures to get these running.

As far as the 'experience', it's about as close as your going to get mechanically (physics) and graphically without standing in front of a real 300 pound machine! In most pinball simulators, when you hit the ball with the flipper, it goes wherever it wants. In VP, you can 'guide' the ball just as you would on a real machine! The ability of VPinMAME to emulate the ROMs which contain the scoring, rules, display, and sounds of the actual pinball machines is really astounding. Those of us that recreate the tables just do some Visual Basic coding to link the VP table to the VPinMAME ROM emulation. Additional coding is required for special toys (like the gun in T2 or the ferris wheel in Cyclone). Some of the tables have had thousands of hours of time spent to recreate them so close to the original it's scary! The screenshots at AJ's VPinMAME (http://www.vpforums.com/vptables) don't do the tables justice. I have to save bandwidth as much as possible so I save the images with high compression.

Along with the 400+ recreations of tables that used ROMs (mostly post-1975 tables), another 400+ pre-1975 tables have been recreated using only VP and can be found at IRPinball (http://irpinball.ztnet.com/). If you love (or even like) pinball but can't afford $1,000 - $4,000 for the real machines, check out VP/VPinMAME!

Thanks for your time.

BTW... I created my own cabinet back in 1998 which was listed at arcadecontrols.com . It's still running strong (had a few upgrades since then). You can see it at http://mgm.vpforums.com

aeroflott · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2004, 09:40:20 am »

An update from me as the originator of this thread - I have spent the last week or so sorting out VPMame on my cab running under MAMEWAH after starting this thread - and all I can say is it is fantastic! The recreations of the tables is spot on. A lot of work is required to things up and running, but it is well worth it. For anyone thinking of diving in and giving it a go - do it, you won't be dissapointed.

The only thing I would say is to echo the comments above - a lot of work has obviously gone into most tables on the site, so if you are going to download tables and ROMS as I have done, make a donation to the guys running and hosting all this stuff for our benefit.

AJ - would it not be possible for VP and PinMAME to get their acts together and mould the two programs into one? Surely this would make life easier, and generate a lot more interest in the program?

Also the link to MAMEWAH's site is: http://mamewah.mameworld.net/

Cheers

Tony

Minwah · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2004, 09:51:30 am »

Quote from: AJ on January 02, 2004, 05:13:17 am

I haven't had any experience with MAMEWAH and the wrapper of which you're talking about above, but it's things like this that I like to add to VPForums to help make things easier. If anyone can guide me to the site for MAMEWAH (the link for the wrapper is above so I don't need that), I can see about putting a Guide for the procedures to get these running.

http://mamewah.mameworld.net

The post I made above with the instructions to setup VP with MAMEWAH should be pretty straightforward, just assuming the user has VP up and running, and is familiar with setting up MAMEWAH. I can make it a bit more precise if that would be helpful...

Thanks for dropping by

AJ · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2004, 01:24:19 pm »

Quote

AJ - would it not be possible for VP and PinMAME to get their acts together and mould the two programs into one? Surely this would make life easier, and generate a lot more interest in the program?

These two programs are designed by two different groups of people. I'm sure they would work together if they could, but with VPinMAME using ROMs, the VP creator wanted to keep it separated should any legal recourse come to VPinMAME for using ROMs. This is the main reason for not combining the programs. Another reason is the creator of VP eventually wanted to make it a commercial pinball construction program. So the two programs have different agendas, but we're happy they work together!

Thanks for the link and instructions Minwah.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2004, 01:42:35 pm »

Quote from: TalkingOctopus on December 24, 2003, 11:28:26 pm

Quote from: Jakobud on December 24, 2003, 03:19:34 pm
i've never tried visual pinball or pinmame (is this the same thing) although i have looked into it in the past. Is it actually fun? I mean playing pinball on a monitor just doens't sound that exciting. I don't know how it could ever be anything close to the real thing...

I didn't like it all that much, but it is they are good as far as PC pinball goes. I did not end up putting it on my cab.

That is an incorrect statement. I don't use visual pinball because the physics suck. Case in point, Theater of Magic is MUCH hard in real life than in VP. It is a very cool idea though.

the best pinball simulators would be M$ Pinball Arcade and the Pro-Pinball series, Big Race in particular. I still play Big Race. It has got to be one of the best sims ever.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2004, 09:19:27 pm »

agreed....

I happen to like visual pinball and think it's a cool diversion, but it's crap on a stick compared to the real thing or even other pinball software out there.

For a "real" pinball simulation I reccomend m$ pinball arcade. The physics can't be beat.

arcadecab · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2004, 10:55:18 pm »

Howard,

Do you have a link to find "m$ pinball arcade"? I have not heard of it before, wondering what it is all about. I have vpinmame and visual pinball, but maybe time for an upgrade. Thanks.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2004, 11:48:52 pm »

m$ = microsoft

there isn't a link as you have to pay for it.

It's very old though so you might have a time tracking it down.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2004, 01:19:11 am »

http://www.microsoft.com/games/pinball/downloads.htm

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2004, 02:31:44 am »

doh! that site is still up after all these years? mad bad, I stand corrected. Thanks sirp.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2004, 11:52:49 am »

btw. the physics doesnt suck. Its the tables aren't 100% correct.

The physics are pretty good. You do get the feeling that its pretty real...

but..

Bug... The ball goes through the flippers if the flipper is going down. This is a MAJOR pain in the butt with multiball... and on real machines I like to 'catch' the ball coming down and flip it at something else.... But not with vpinball.

Anyway... Real pinball games have had all of their ramps places where just being a little left or a little right (or wider) makes a HUGE difference.

Also, knowing the EXACT strength of the flipper, length, ect makes a HUGE difference...

IE... its not VPinball. Its the table setup....

But after all that..

VPinball is still a lot of fun to play. Even though most of the tables are easier then the original.

RetroBorg · « **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2004, 05:23:54 pm »

I like visual pinball, unfortunately I only have a PIII 450 so I struggle to play some Visual PinMame tables. My favourite PC Pinball game is Pro Pinball Timeshock!

You can download a demo from here.

http://www.empireinteractive.com/propinball/timeshock/

aeroflott · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2004, 06:49:41 pm »

This is probably one for Minwah (sorry mate!)

I'm runnng Visual Pinball and PinMame on my Mamewah Cab - and occasionally, when a table loads up it leaves the folder window on the screen from where it loaded up - thus making the table unplayable - i.e. you can't see it! Doesn't happen every time, and not with all tables. All that's visible is the display (PinMame) - to remove the folder in the way, I have to open up, grab the mouse and minimise the folder, then I can play.
Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

Tony

Minwah · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2004, 12:06:09 pm »

Quote from: aeroflott on January 03, 2004, 06:49:41 pm

This is probably one for Minwah (sorry mate!)

I'm runnng Visual Pinball and PinMame on my Mamewah Cab - and occasionally, when a table loads up it leaves the folder window on the screen from where it loaded up - thus making the table unplayable - i.e. you can't see it! Doesn't happen every time, and not with all tables. All that's visible is the display (PinMame) - to remove the folder in the way, I have to open up, grab the mouse and minimise the folder, then I can play.
Any advice appreciated.

I'm sure I read something about this from Howard (maybe in a thread here somewhere?). I think the just of it was that this sometimes happens - and there's nothing you can do about it

I seem to remember having this problem once or twice, but I no longer have VPinball set up.

mrhowell · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2004, 06:03:51 pm »

The Addams Family ver. 6.5. Great table

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2004, 12:48:06 am »

what minwah said.... these tables are scripted inside their code to bring the proper windows to the foreground upon startup. Bad coding means they won't pop up. My wrappers do a good job of fixing it 90% of the time but as they really aren't designed to fix that it still happens occasionally. The solution is to hold down escape to exit the table and relaunch. This time the stuff should show up properly.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2004, 12:53:25 am »

i'm sorry... I promised myself I wouldn't start an argument over this but regarding the things lilwolf said:

Visual pinball does indeed have poor physics AND poor tables. Vp doesn't even properly simulate the acceleration of gravity on the ball nor the proper "bounce" ratio of the ball when it hits a totally solid object. Take that and the fact that the tables aren't perfect and density isn't simulated at all (very crucial for when the ball hits stuff) and you could say it's the most inaccurate 3d pinball simulation program ever.

Keep in mind it's still fun, but I hated to see misinformation spread. Don't blame the table developers as they do a really good job with what they have, let's spread some of the blame over to the program devs too.

pmc · « **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2004, 07:17:45 pm »

Quote from: DBut on December 25, 2003, 12:12:21 pm

Goto http://www.vpforums.com/vptables/tables.php
You need to signup to VPForums to download.

What's up with that site? No matter if I use IE or NetScape, I cannot download because I'm not "logged in" even though I am. I have tried blowing away cookies, changing privacy settings, etc but to no avail. Is it me? Grrrrr..... it's driving me nuts!

Zombie · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2004, 03:16:16 pm »

im loving this emulator

i agree some of the tables dont have that good psysics, while others are simply amazing.
as AJ says some of the tables have had thousands of hours time spent to recreate them and it really shows.

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #29 on:** January 08, 2004, 03:02:40 am »

Quote from: Zombie on January 07, 2004, 03:16:16 pm

im loving this emulator
i agree some of the tables dont have that good psysics, while others are simply amazing.
as AJ says some of the tables have had thousands of hours time spent to recreate them and it really shows.

All tables have the exact same physics... those are generated by the core program, not the tables themselves.

Some tables are more accurate than others. (in terms of layout)That is the difference you are seeing.

And that's why even the most accurate vp table will never be as accurate as the orignal, because the core physics need fixed.

Amazing=!Accurate

I challenge you to play any vp table, go play the real table and say that they are even close to each other, hard work aside.

Again, I'm not knocking the program, I like it, I just want to keep mis-information from spreading.


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