Arcade Cabinet Damages by the Kids

[APFelon]

I think it's hillarious and absurd to hear statements like, "the six most well adjusted kids I know..."  We're talking about periodic observations of a few people.  Try some science for a change.  There are dozens of studies with samples in the thousands from all kinds of demographics.  Many of these studies go on for decades.

All science is is anecdotal evidence in piles. It is periodic observations of a few people that work under the umbrella of "science" which seems to give them instant credibility for some reason. I could find thousands of people from all sorts of demographics that say spanking didn't hurt them in the least. Is that science?

Agenda, agenda, agenda.

APf

[Sasquatch!]

All I know is that the only reason I want to have kids is so that I can bust out the "I'll give you something to cry about!!" line.  

That sounds cool.

[nipsmg]

"I'll give you something to laugh aboot!"

*crowd falls over laughing*

"You guys are ---Deutsche Frankfurters---! Release terrance and Philip!"

Wow this thread got off topic..

[shmokes]

Now there's a BIG difference between "beating" and "spanking" your children.  I will tell you however, that almost no matter how young, spanking CAN and DOES work.  and it IS the cause and effect thing.  If a child touches something hot and burns his hand, he doesn't do it again because he gets hurt.  If a child does something he shouldn't and gets spanked, he tends to make the same association.

This seems kind of misguided to me.  I would not argue against the fact that one effect of spanking would be a reduction, in some cases, of the behavior that led to the spanking.  But there is no fundamental difference between beating and spanking aside from severity.  It's like the difference between walking and running.  Fundamentally they are the same thing, operate on the same premises and are carried out for essentially the same motives.  Most often the biggest difference between a beating and a spanking revolves around the size of the victim.  You can't spank an adult to change behaviors because it doesn't hurt or scare them so you have to intensify the physical punishment you dole out to have the same effect.  As far as a child is concerned, though, a spanking is a beating.  They cannot defend themselves, and it is as scary and painful to them as a beating is to an adult.

An end, though, does not necessarily justify a means.  Certainly the Gestapo was VERY effective in the industry of investigation and persuasion.  I would imagine that having your hands chopped off in Arabia for stealing has a decided chilling effect on thieves and the likelihood of them stealing.  Does that mean that we should give law enforcement virtually unchecked police powers?

Don't take that the wrong way.  I am not saying that people who spank their kids are nazis or anything of that sort.  Just trying to illustrate that spanking's effectiveness is not necessarily a good reason that it should be employed.  The fact that there are many other equally, or more effective non-violent methods of discipline readily available should simply give you pause before you decide to smack your kid.

[nipsmg]

I agree, to some extent..

I was trying to emphasize that there IS a difference between spanking and "beating", at least in the manner I'm talking about..  Children do get "beaten", closed fist hitting, using weapons, slapping to the point of major bruising, broken bones, burns etc.. it does happen, and it's called CHILD ABUSE.. I'm sick of the ---goshdarn--- P.C. LOSERS who have changed society to the point where the DCF can take your children away if you give them a spanking.

Now, are there other just as or MORE effective non-violent discipline tactics?  Sure, in SOME CASES.. But again, you seem to make a blanket statement, that everything will work for every child.. there are MANY different forms of discipline, and a balance between them work.

However, like I said, and for ME as an example -- Yelling didn't always work, taking things away didn't always work, and guilting didn't always work.. and when they didn't, spanking did.

I have a feeling it's that way for a lot of people.  It also seems that you're relating an endorsement of spanking as a disciplinary method with that person ONLY useing that method, and is constantly spanking their children.. I don't think that's true, and it's not what I'm talking about.  But I do know that it HAS BEEN for countless years, and IS STILL, in some cases, a very effective method of discipline for children.

Children who are "ABUSED" tend to become excessively violent.

Children who get a smack in the ass tend to grow up to be perfectly normal.

NEITHER of these happens in all cases.  I'm sure there are serial killers whose parents treated them fine, and there are well adjusted individuals who were abused, and got through it.

However I odn't think it's fair to totally discount a very effect method of discipline because of personal views on violence.

And i have to agree with APFelon's reasoning on the "science" and "Studies" issue.  Every 3 years "Science" reverses its view on something.  Black holes exist.. no they don't.
Eggs are good for you, Eggs are bad for you.
Carbs are good for you, Carbs are bad for you.
Apples keep the dentist away, Apples are high in natural sugar, they'll rot your teeth.
This drug is PERFECTLY safe, this drug will destroy your liver if you take it.

"Science" in cases like these, tends to be a farce. And "studies" tend to be influenced by whoever is conducting them.

--NipsMG

[RetroJames]

 *waaa*  Mommy, Daddy, PLEASE stop fighting! *sniffle*

(I want my thread back)

[shmokes]

Children do get "beaten", closed fist hitting, using weapons, slapping to the point of major bruising, broken bones, burns etc.. it does happen, and it's called CHILD ABUSE..

These methods are very effective means of reducing or eliminating behaviors, more so than spanking, but for the same reasons.  Kids who get the hell beat out of them are super obedient, generally speaking.  They are scared to death of setting their parent/parents off.  Kids who get spanked are obedient for the same reason, fear of physical danger, albeit to a much less extent.  Sure, they might turn out fine...Kids who get tortured might turn out fine, but why take the chance?  They're the most important thing you have...will ever have.  But they aren't property.  You are merely their stewards and caregivers and protectors until they can do that stuff on their own.  You feel like you can't smack the neighbor kids cos they aren't "yours".  I don't believe your children are "yours" either, anymore than saying "my brother" indicates ownership.  They are self aware, sentient beings, and ownership is tantamount to slavery, nomatter how well you treat your slaves.  

[shmokes]

(I want my thread back)

I want to give it to you  

I just love philosophy, and arguing....I can't help it  

[nipsmg]

Some people look at multiple points of view and consider all variables, some are set in their ways and see certain things as an absolute evil.. When a conversation goes into running in circles, no point further debating.. Plus this thread went SOO off topic!!!

 

sorry cadet  

**Hands thread back**