Just4fun: buggy boy setup

[gurbzs]

Hi,

Generating a triple screen setup here with groovymame.
Here in europe crt 's are easy to get.
Buggy boy on three 29" inch is the challenge here.
Let me know if you have this kind of setup.

For now I need an extra monitor, 2 down 1 to go.

Grtz,

Gurbz

[gurbzs]

Got my hands on two 28" crt monitors , I pick em up in two days.
A brand I don't know yet: Ibero-Shon from spain.

Does anybody know this manufacturer?
Can't find anything on the net.

Model:

Ibero-Shon Zend, model Z-MFJ28, series screen, produced dec. 1997.

Grtz,

Gurbz

[Calamity]

Hi gurbzs,

This is very cool indeed!

I'd say you're going stumble upon a problem when you try to attach your third screen. For doing this you need a video card that has 3 CRTCs (CRT controllers). Don't trust the number of outputs you see on the card. The actual number of independent heads is determined by the number of CRTCs in a video card. Most older Radeons have only 2 CRTCs, it's only starting from the Evergreen chips (HD 5xxx) that can have up to 6 CRTCs (http://www.botchco.com/agd5f/?p=50). Unfortunately we can't use Evergreen chips yet with GroovyMAME. However, if your motherboard has two PCIe slots, you can add a second video card to achieve the third output.

Notice that only the primary output will have v-sync turned on. This is by design, as GroovyMAME bases on v-sync for timing it wouldn't be possible to synchronize emulation with 3 CRTCs at once.

Regarding Ibero-Shon, even if I'm from Spain I had never heard from that manufacturer 

[gurbzs]

Thanx Calamity for the thinking ahead, before I get to these situations.
A while ago I bought two great Asus 4890 cards and a cheap q6600 system.
Sounds like I need another system with 2 pci-e slots, I needed a core I7 anyway.
Suggestions are welcome!

I attached a picture of the monitors

Grtz,

Gurbz

[gurbzs]

About adding another card: will an old ati radeon 7000 PCI (!) card work?

[Calamity]

About adding another card: will an old ati radeon 7000 PCI (!) card work?

I'm afraid it won't work, because that will require installing an older version of Catalyst (6.5) to deal with that card, and because you need the newer one for your HD 4890 (9.3) they will conflict, they can't coexist. An Nvidia PCI card might work however, provided you manage to use custom modes with it.

[gurbzs]

I also have an older system with a Ati 9250 win xp using the older drivers.
Maybe use that for testing?

[Calamity]

I also have an older system with a Ati 9250 win xp using the older drivers.
Maybe use that for testing?

With that one it should work. Just make sure your 9250 has 2 real analog outputs (the ones I have only have VGA and DVI-D, not DVI-I).

[gurbzs]

That would be this 256 mb version I have (picture)
This one doesn't work with linux but it does with xp.
Funny: I 'm visiting a town tomorrow to get the monitors, already spotted an pci 7000 there.

Is there a manufacturer I should stay away from?
I think sapphire isn't that compatible

[Calamity]

That's a DVI-I, you're lucky. That card should work with Linux too. As for problematic manufacturers, we've seen some cases but it was with later cards (4350s that weren't real 4350s). FYI there're 9250 PCI cards too.

[gurbzs]

So if I load a few cheap pci cards in the system I could have vsync on all screens?
I'm planning a groovy videowall (5) because the monitors I seek will be harder to get eventually.

[Calamity]

So if I load a few cheap pci cards in the system I could have vsync on all screens?

No, only on the primary one. It's not a matter of using independent cards. It be achieved by rewriting part of GroovyMAME but there hasn't been demand for such setup till now 

[gurbzs]

Hmm, I'm hitting a wall with the old system here: desktop won't expand to second screen.
Things I tried: reinstalling drivers, completely uninstalled them, arcade vga (radeon 7000) card, etc
Looks like a driver problem or xp gets somehow freaky.

I can see the second display but when I activate it doesn't expand (desktop setting)

somebody any clues ?!

[Calamity]

So how is your current setup? One Radeon 9250 AGP + one AVGA 7000 PCI? Is all hardware properly recognized?

[gurbzs]

This my old setup: xp32, changed the 9250 for another 9250 with dvi-i, no 7000 installed yet.
Under xp32 I can't get two monitors working on the ati 9250 vga/dvi or the ultimarc vga/vga.
All hardware is recognized, I see two screens in desktop properties but one is vague (screen 2) and stays that way
That's the first problem

On the other machine (4890) two monitors are easy, that's win7 64bit.
No problems there but I need another mobro there with 2xpci-e

So: I started with the xp32 agp/pci option

[gurbzs]

To be clear: I ordered a old pci 7000.
The ultimarc is AGP and used as spare or alternative

[Calamity]

It sounds like a display detection issue. Try this: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116790.msg1237609.html#msg1237609

[gurbzs]

Thanx, that worked great!!
Allright: tomorrow I'm picking up unknown spanish monitors and perhaps a pci radeon 7000.

I 'll keep ya posted.

[gurbzs]

Plugged my ati 9250 in (removed AGP ultimarc dual vga radeon 7000 for being to slow) and graphics are e total mess. Xp is very slow, works only in safemode. This keeps repeating itself after installing or uninstaaling drivers.
I'll try a fresh xp install when I get back

[Calamity]

It could be the old driver from Ultimarc being taking over instead of the Emudriver (not sure though). If you are going to fresh install XP the problem might solve.

[gurbzs]

So... Conquered snowstorms in a 2x2 hour drive to get these monitors manufactured in Spain in 1997.
I don't think these are multisync like my NEC XM-2950 or Mitsubishi XC-2930C.

These monitors have 4 BNC's instead of 5.
Can I connect with a 5 BNC cable?
Does anybody know?

They do have scart input.
Pictures attached

[cools]

Expect they're the same as my old PVM, use a BNC t piece to combine H and V sync

[gurbzs]

Thanx Cools,

Something like this (netherlands)?

http://www.allekabels.nl/bnc-kabel/76/883/bnc-splitter.html?gclid=COzEpYCa58ICFTHMtAod6UcAaQ

[gurbzs]

Ah, no splitter but a combining t piece.
Found a webpage about the monitors:

http://www.europro.com.ar/Productos/vmonitores/vidwall.pdf

[gurbzs]

Which is a follow up model from 1999

[PL1]

Thanx Cools,

Something like this (netherlands)?

http://www.allekabels.nl/bnc-kabel/76/883/bnc-splitter.html?gclid=COzEpYCa58ICFTHMtAod6UcAaQ

Looks like a good choice.   


Scott

[gurbzs]

Uh, on the web a I see BNC T piece splitters and adapters.
Or are both compatible?

I connected the h and v sync from the 5 bnc cable but that didn't work suprisingly  😄

[PL1]

Uh, on the web a I see BNC T piece splitters and adapters.
Or are both compatible?

I connected the h and v sync from the 5 bnc cable but that didn't work suprisingly  😄

The "Y" you linked to and the "T" splitters should be electrically the same.

As long as it has the right number of Male/Female connectors and you can physically connect your cables and the monitor to it, you should be good.

I forgot to mention one other thing -- match the impedance of the adapter to the cables.

Many of the video BNC cables out there are made from RG-59 coax which has a 75 Ohm impedance like the adapter you linked above. (it's not marked as such, but everything else in that section is 75 Ohm)

There are some RG-58 coax cables and adapters that have a 50 Ohm impedance commonly used for test equipment like signal generators and oscilloscopes.

Mis-matched 50/75 Ohm impedance will usually cause signal attenuation of about 2-3 dB. (3 dB = half the signal)


Scott

[gurbzs]

Thanx for the input Scott.

So everything should be 75ohm?

About splitting and combining signals.
When I read 'splitter' I think that the signal will be split where H/V has to be combined in one BNC.
(5 BNC to 4 BNC with T-piece). that maybe my lack of understanding.
I am not a electronic genius so I'm gonna order a bunch of BNC T-Pieces (not expensive) and try them out.

I'll let you kniw the results

[PL1]

So everything should be 75ohm?

That is the standard impedance for video cables and the switch positions on this panel of your monitor all appear to agree.   

About splitting and combining signals.
When I read 'splitter' I think that the signal will be split where H/V has to be combined in one BNC.
(5 BNC to 4 BNC with T-piece).

As long as the three center pins are all connected, and they should be on these simple T's or Y's, you can use it as a splitter or a combiner.

In on one connector and out on the other two = splitter.

In on two connectors and out on the other one = combiner.


Scott

[gurbzs]

Ok, the xp32/radeon9250 system is up and running again and I wait voor a pci radeon 7000 and some bnc t-pieces to arrive.
When configuring three monitors, knowing that two are multisync and have remote controls to adjust the screen: the other monitor(s) don't have that screen adjustment possibility or multisync.

The plan for now is: run vmmaker at preset pal, ntsc or generic arcade setting.
Seems like I have to adjust the system to the 'lowest bid' - monitor.

Is that correct?

[Calamity]

Seems like I have to adjust the system to the 'lowest bid' - monitor.

Yes, bear in mind that you can only use an instance of the same modeline per mode at once, so all three monitors will be running with the same modeline. I'd leave the VMMaker settings as "CUSTOM" just like it is by default when you download it. Then use GroovyMAME to apply the actual settings, and "generic_15" would be better than PAL or NTSC which are too limited.

[gurbzs]

Hmm, first try out with a RGBHV cable and the 4 BNC monitor.
Connected the BNC T- piece with H/V and the RGB connectors.
Rolling colors as a result, not quite right.

The left BNC (picture) takes also composite video alone.
Sounds familiar to anyone?

[gurbzs]

Wait! Works!

I took the wrong approach, used my xbox1 vga breakout box as a reference

[gurbzs]

Testing, testing!!!!

[Calamity]

That looks good, I'm eager to see if it can actually handle three screens fine.

[gurbzs]

Eager and curious, yes, yes!
Today or tomorrow a ati radeon7000 will arrive but with little luck I'm able to pick up a radeon 9000 PCI today.
Xmas holiday days well spend

[gurbzs]

Allright, you're gonna like the results.
It is possible, all generated vmmaker resolutions available on 3 screens.
The system is slow - speedtips are welcome!!

System
This is a compaq evo w6000, 2 gb rdram
Ultimarc AGP 7000 radeon double vga
Pci radeon 7000

Installation of the cards and drivers took patience.
I'm glad I ordered 2 pci 7000's. One was crap (sapphire), the other one worked but not with the ati AGP 9250 vga/dvi.

Here are some pics, I 'll line the monitors up, have to make room for THAT!

[gurbzs]

Checked the specs of my w6000, turns out it's from the stoneage
Xeon prestonia 2x2.4ghz
Seems I need a system upgrade, buggy boy at 60% speed is not good enough

Options:

Go cheap:Is it reasonable to expect an AGP/PCI /xp32 system to do the trick?
Go pci-express; i then need a desktop for my 2 ati 4890 cards

Any recommendations?

[Calamity]

Hi gurbzs, that looks good!

May you check how fast can it run if -syncrefresh & -waitvsync are disabled? For this test you need to force those disabled from command line, not mame.ini.