Help Understanding order of Configurations

[theillest]

Hi All,
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.  I somewhat understand all the tools that are used but not necessarily the order in which to run the tools.
Hardware:
i5 processor
16GB Ram / 80GB OS Drive / 1TB Data Drive will all emulator and gaming stuff
HD 4350 PCI Express 2.0 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129149
Crescendo TC1600
Sony TV KV-32FS120 https://docs.sony.com/release/KV32FS120-36FS120rev.pdf
DVI-I to VGA Adapter http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119041
Windows 7 64-bit
 
Order of installations.
-had existing schmupmame and all roms worked great.  Renamed the mame.exe since i now wanted to set-up Grooveymame
-Downloaded Groovymame and renamed groovymame to mame.exe to override schmup executible.  Renamed old mame.ini Created new mame.ini via commandline
-Removed existing video drivers > installed CRT emudrivers via Setup.exe as administrator
-Ran VMMAker.exe as administrator > Set desktop while LCD connect to 600x480 @ 60hz. > Rebooted> disconnected LCD
-Connected Sony TV via VGA port on video card which is converted via tc-1600.
-Am able to get a picture on screen > Position of screen is off / cut off about 1inch on the left
-Launch groovymame as administrator along with some games and position is cut off on the left for everything. the resolution on the switchres matches the game resolution of the games.
-Mortal Kombat games bounce up and down which is what i assume you guys call (Vertical overscan?) much of the display on these games are missing about 3 inches of the game on the bottom.
-Did alot of research for the past couple weeks but not too sure what the order is supposed to be.

Questions:
-How do i know i'm using the right display port?  i bought the dvi-i to vga just in case i needed it.  I've actually attempted to use the DVI port as well with the same results as above.
-I can launch OSD and with some resolutions i can adjust the geometry on the resolutions but not sure how to transfer that into mame.  But also some resolutions, no matter how much i adjust the geometry (Horizontal) doesn't budge a bit.
-What is the process to test different settings to get my games pictures and settings up to par.

Sorry for the long list but i've noticed the more information that people can post, the better the response. I really want to get this going but am having issues understanding the orders of troubleshooting / tweaking.

here's what i assumed.
- play with arcade osd with resolutions and notate when i find a good setting for H-center front,back porch and add that to the monitor_spec line in vmmaker.ini and then run vmmaker.exe again and test.  But there are so many resolutions i'm not sure this is right. 
Help.

THANKS!!!!

[haynor666]

In most cases DVI is primary port. That's why I plug DVI-VGA converter and then VGA cable to UMSA and from UMSA to SCART typical RGB cable.

Cutting out some line from edges is typical for those TV. My Sony KV 29'' (don't remember exact model, it's on the back of TV) also cuts some lines, mostly upper part of screen when you can see test lines (that's 3 color line red, blue, green). But my Thomson 21'' 21MX17E does do this as well but rarely (resolution for toaplan2.c games is trimmed by 1 or 2 lines on right side). Service menu will not help, even if you removed overscan some resolutions will get missing lines.

There is however simple trick - instead running default resolution for example 1942 256x240 you may use 272x240 (thougt groovy on my configuration starts to stretch image, I was forced to use ddraw instead d3d).

Second option involves mod existing resolutions in VMmaker/ArcadeOSD I'm afraid.

[theillest]

There is however simple trick - instead running default resolution for example 1942 256x240 you may use 272x240 (thougt groovy on my configuration starts to stretch image, I was forced to use ddraw instead d3d).

Second option involves mod existing resolutions in VMmaker/ArcadeOSD I'm afraid.

Thanks for the response.  How exactly do I tell Groovy to choose a different resolution for a game?

Also if want to mod existing resolution in VMMaker/ArcadeOSD, what are the steps in order to do this and have Groovy use the modifications that I've done? 
Thanks

[haynor666]

You can set it in folllowing section of ini files. Right this only makes sense for ddraw because d3d automatically enabling stretching even if I set cleanstretch to 1 (which I'm trying to understand and set correctly).

#
# OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen                    auto
aspect                    auto
resolution                auto
view                      auto
screen0                   auto
aspect0                   auto
resolution0               auto (chnange to desired res for example 272x240, freq will automatically calculated)
view0                     auto
screen1                   auto
aspect1                   auto
resolution1               auto
view1                     auto
screen2                   auto
aspect2                   auto
resolution2               auto
view2                     auto
screen3                   auto
aspect3                   auto
resolution3               auto
view3                     auto

[Calamity]

-I can launch OSD and with some resolutions i can adjust the geometry on the resolutions but not sure how to transfer that into mame.  But also some resolutions, no matter how much i adjust the geometry (Horizontal) doesn't budge a bit.

In order to transfer the values to GroovyMAME, you need to create a custom crt_range:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.0.html

The values you're interested are H Front Porch and H Back Porch.

If you noticed one resolution that didn't update with Arcade OSD it's probably because that was the current desktop resolution (that one's read only).

If you're getting video through that output and you don't need to do something strange like plugging an LCD first each time you boot then that's the right output.

[theillest]

Progress!! Thanks for the information guys. I was able to take a crt_range line from Calamity's post and then in ArcadeOSD I used resolution (384x240) and notate the H Front and H Back Porch settings that centered the screen.  I changed the crt_range0 line and added my values for H Front and H Back Porch and the games I've tested so far have been centered.   
Some other hurdles that I'd like to know how to overcome.
- My Desktop Resolution is set to 640x480 and the everything is jittery and is off-screen vertically.  What settings must I adjust in order to fine tune this.
-Mortal Kombat games are bouncing (vertical overscan?) and not too sure where exactly to tweak to stabilize the image.
-Also noticed that a lot of the roms that worked for schmupmame aren't working in Groovymame.  Is GM more secure? is this normal,

Posting my files and some pictures to show what I'm working with, let me if you see anything that I can optimize.  Thanks in Advance!!!

[Calamity]

Hi theillest,

The problem with mk is that it runs at 54 Hz, which is somewhat half way between PAL and NTSC. Please check if rtype is showing ok. Depending on this I'll tell you what to do.

[haynor666]

theillnest have Sony KV serie so it must support 55 Hz though it needs to set picture in service menu.

[theillest]

rtype seems to be working fine.. aside from having a little of the screen off on the bottom. 

[haynor666]

You need use vertical size or slope in service menu to correct this.

[Calamity]

Ok, so set the VfreqMin in your custom crt_range to 55.00. This will force mk to run a bit too fast, but should fix the vertical sync problem. Anyway, you may try fixing it through the service menu first, maybe there's some vfreq adjustment in there (vertical size is a separate issue to fix).

[haynor666]

In my TV's slope option shrink picture by taking lower part higher (sorry for my bad explanation and my bad english) but this also involves stretching picture horizontally a bit. Judging from screenshot You are missing large part from the bottom only.

I know, Calamity does not recommend using bigger resolution but using 384x264@55 should give better results. Personally I prefer tweak options in service menu.

[Calamity]

I know, Calamity does not recommend using bigger resolution but using 384x264@55 should give better results. Personally I prefer tweak options in service menu.

What I don't recommend is to use particular settings for different games unless it's strictly necessary. If you get better results by artificially increasing the vertical resolution (adding borders) then why not use the GM's logic and create a crt_range that adds the required borders for you as padding lines? This way you get the same result but you generalize it for all the required cases by means of a timing formula.

I'd say that with TVs you're anyway forced to use the service menu for anything above 240p, unless the refresh is close enough to the PAL standard.

[stellarola]

-Also noticed that a lot of the roms that worked for schmupmame aren't working in Groovymame.  Is GM more secure? is this normal,

It's probably due to the differences in the version of shmupmame that you're running. Romsets and their names can change in any build, really. Newer builds of MAME can be much pickier than older versions.

[haynor666]

Latest shmupmame is based on mame 148 from beginning od 2013. That's almost 2 years 

[theillest]

Latest shmupmame is based on mame 148 from beginning od 2013. That's almost 2 years 

What mame version is GroovyMame based on? 
What tools can i use to update my roms to be compatible with GroovyMame?

[haynor666]

Groovy is right now 156 just like MAME.

[adder]

What tools can i use to update my roms to be compatible with GroovyMame?

groovymame uses the same roms as regular mame, so you just need a regular set of official mame roms.

[theillest]

theillnest have Sony KV serie so it must support 55 Hz though it needs to set picture in service menu.

Which option is it exactly that i Need to tweak for to adjust the Vfrequency to keep the MK image from bouncing?  I was able to the Service menu in my TV but didn't see a VFrequency label on any of the menus.

[theillest]

Ok, so set the VfreqMin in your custom crt_range to 55.00. This will force mk to run a bit too fast, but should fix the vertical sync problem. Anyway, you may try fixing it through the service menu first, maybe there's some vfreq adjustment in there (vertical size is a separate issue to fix).

I modified the VfreqMin to 55.00 and got a switchres error at launch of mame, and launch of game which kept the game at my desktops native resolution. 

[theillest]

Groovy is right now 156 just like MAME.

Do i need to re-download all my Roms?  is there a tool that will convert them to be compatible with the latest version of mame?

[haynor666]

Here is examples of service menu for Sony KV TV:

http://download.qrz.ru/pub/hamradio/schemes/tv/sony/FE1.pdf
Look from page 20

http://diagramasde.com/diagramas/televisores/KV-29CL11B_E_K%20Ch.FE-2.pdf
Look from page 22

Use v slope to move lower edge of screen higher or if you don't have vslope use v centre and vsize.

But that's for geometry, this won't help you with bouncing. Personally I didn't see Sony KV that can't work with 55 Hz picture and 256 lines.

[Calamity]

I modified the VfreqMin to 55.00 and got a switchres error at launch of mame, and launch of game which kept the game at my desktops native resolution.

You must have done something wrong, but without a log it's impossible to say.

[theillest]

I modified the VfreqMin to 55.00 and got a switchres error at launch of mame, and launch of game which kept the game at my desktops native resolution.

You must have done something wrong, but without a log it's impossible to say.

Here's my Mame.ini file and the errors.  Thanks Calamity, yes i'm sure I'm missing something here.

[theillest]

Here is examples of service menu for Sony KV TV:

http://download.qrz.ru/pub/hamradio/schemes/tv/sony/FE1.pdf
Look from page 20

http://diagramasde.com/diagramas/televisores/KV-29CL11B_E_K%20Ch.FE-2.pdf
Look from page 22

Use v slope to move lower edge of screen higher or if you don't have vslope use v centre and vsize.

But that's for geometry, this won't help you with bouncing. Personally I didn't see Sony KV that can't work with 55 Hz picture and 256 lines.

okay.. Thanks i'll tweak those settings.

[Calamity]

Change progressive lines max ro 256.

[haynor666]

Ok, I think I see the problem now. You posted manual for Wega series which might me 100/120 Hz TV. This might be first problem. Your manual is US/CA version so are you live in USA and/or have USA version of this TV? If yes then your TV probably won't support below 55 Hz. In EUR all KV TVs have support for PAL as well for NTSC 4.43 (but usually through input on the front of TV). This allows to put range 49 - 62 Hz through SCART.

Just like Calamity wrote you need limit prog. lines to 256 lines and freq range from 55 to 62. Try to edit default arcade_15 range because your TV will probably support that range.

[theillest]

Ok, I think I see the problem now. You posted manual for Wega series which might me 100/120 Hz TV. This might be first problem. Your manual is US/CA version so are you live in USA and/or have USA version of this TV? If yes then your TV probably won't support below 55 Hz. In EUR all KV TVs have support for PAL as well for NTSC 4.43 (but usually through input on the front of TV). This allows to put range 49 - 62 Hz through SCART.

Just like Calamity wrote you need limit prog. lines to 256 lines and freq range from 55 to 62. Try to edit default arcade_15 range because your TV will probably support that range.

Okay. Yes i live in the US and i don't have scart.   I'll keep you guys posted.  Thanks