Need insight on purchasing a CRT PC monitor to display games.

[Dungeonsdeep]

Maybe someone can provide me with some of their experience.

I am building a cab, and was originally planning on putting a SONY WEGA Trinitron tube inside my cab, with a RGB-Component transcoder along the way.

Right now on Craigslist there is a Compaq "Trinitron" 21" PC monitor. From what I read, the Trinitron means there is a Sony tube inside, and there were a lot of other companies that used the same components. Compaq being one of them.

The model# reads: "PE1040" (Compaq P1100)

Here is a link to the .PDF: ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/supportinformation/forum/Desktops/Monitors/P-series/P1100/325603-291.pdf

Stated herein: "Automatic scanning of all horizontal frequencies between 30 and
121 kHz, and vertical frequencies between 50 and 160 Hz"

It takes a lot for my mind to wrap around all these "frequencies" and refresh rates...What is right, what is bad...I can't keep up with it. I have read something about 15hz being optimal for Arcade display. This does 30hz thought, does that mean since 30 is dividable by 15 I will get a good image with no flickering?

Any information would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[SailorSat]

Your classic games use a frequency of about 15.7kHz. This monitor starts synching at about 28kHz (though 30kHz in the docs).
Unless you have a scandoubler (which doubles your 15.7kHz to 30.4kHz) this monitor cannot sync.

[happyfunball]

if its a pc monitor you don't have to worry about anything. mame will automatically re-sample the game to work on it, just like an lcd. you don't need to even think about frequencies unless you are trying to hook up a genuine arcade monitor to play games in mame.

[Dawgz Rule]

My guess is that your original goal in using the Sony TV and transcoder is to display your games in native resolution.  If that is the case, the monitor isn't going to work. 

[happyfunball]

not for that, no, but it will run if he just plugs it in, just not at the native res.

I've been tinkering with an arcadevga 5000 and a real arcade monitor and so far its not been a simple and fast process to get it working at the right res and sync.

[Dungeonsdeep]

if its a pc monitor you don't have to worry about anything. mame will automatically re-sample the game to work on it, just like an lcd. you don't need to even think about frequencies unless you are trying to hook up a genuine arcade monitor to play games in mame.

This monitor runs in 640x480. Is that native arcade res?

As far as syncing goes, you are saying MAME will resample...can you expand on this a bit? I would really like to avoid screen flickering and syncing issues. Native resolution I am not too concerned with however.

So would the SONY TV/transcoder method be superior?

Thanks guys/gals.

[happyfunball]

well, you said it was a pc monitor. most pc monitors are autosycing. not down to 15khz unless its a really old pc monitor. but typically mame will resamaple up to whatever resolution you have set.

but 640x480? are you sure this is a pc monitor? can you provide any more details? pictures? model number?

is this a monitor or an old television set?

[Dawgz Rule]

the native resolution varies for each game.  the benefit of running games in their native resolution is that you will be playing the game at the resolution that was original to the game.  Some people don't care but others (myself included) like the authentic look of the game at the native resolution.   

if you are going to go the trinitron/transcoder route, you could potentially run games in their native resolution (depending on what model of trinitron). 

Alternatively, you could go the trinitron monitor route and eliminate the need for the transcoder altogether.  Simply plug in your VGA cable and let mame scale it for you. 

It really comes down to personal preference and cost. 

For me, my first build was with an arcadevga and arcade monitor.  I chose that route because the ease of the build (I found the arcadevga to be very easy to set up) and my ability to get an arcade monitor at a reasonable cost.  I am in the process of gearing up for another build and I will use a trinitron TV and transcoder at native resolution.  I chose that route because I have more knowledge now and TV's can be found for $20 on craigslist.   

For the cost, you may want to try both and simply see what you prefer.

[Dungeonsdeep]

well, you said it was a pc monitor. most pc monitors are autosycing. not down to 15khz unless its a really old pc monitor. but typically mame will resamaple up to whatever resolution you have set.

but 640x480? are you sure this is a pc monitor? can you provide any more details? pictures? model number?

is this a monitor or an old television set?

The monitor Model number, and link to PDF manual were both stated in the original post 

the native resolution varies for each game.  the benefit of running games in their native resolution is that you will be playing the game at the resolution that was original to the game.  Some people don't care but others (myself included) like the authentic look of the game at the native resolution.   

if you are going to go the trinitron/transcoder route, you could potentially run games in their native resolution (depending on what model of trinitron). 

Alternatively, you could go the trinitron monitor route and eliminate the need for the transcoder altogether.  Simply plug in your VGA cable and let mame scale it for you. 

It really comes down to personal preference and cost. 

For me, my first build was with an arcadevga and arcade monitor.  I chose that route because the ease of the build (I found the arcadevga to be very easy to set up) and my ability to get an arcade monitor at a reasonable cost.  I am in the process of gearing up for another build and I will use a trinitron TV and transcoder at native resolution.  I chose that route because I have more knowledge now and TV's can be found for $20 on craigslist.   

For the cost, you may want to try both and simply see what you prefer.

Soooo...the Trinitron monitor, which will display resolutions as low as 640x480 would be better than the television with transcoder? TVs display lower resolutions though, correct?

Again, I am most concerned with syncing issues.

[happyfunball]

you are correct, sir. my apologies. I didn't think to look back at the original post.
unfortunately I can't get the pdf file to download. just gives me an error.

however, I think short of finding a SCART tv or a real arcade monitor, i'm not sure you'll have much luck getting the games to run at the original res with no resampling.

[Dawgz Rule]

however, I think short of finding a SCART tv or a real arcade monitor, i'm not sure you'll have much luck getting the games to run at the original res with no resampling.

Not correct.  See link below:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.msg1288832.html#msg1288832

[Dungeonsdeep]

however, I think short of finding a SCART tv or a real arcade monitor, i'm not sure you'll have much luck getting the games to run at the original res with no resampling.

Not correct.  See link below:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121491.msg1288832.html#msg1288832

This thread is what I am basing all of my current knowledge off of. So back to the old question.... Would the Sony TV be better than the moniotr? I just have a feeling it would but would like a definitive answer.

[Dawgz Rule]

I would be of the opinion that the TV with the transcoder would be the better picture quality.  The only caveat to that would be that you will need to ensure you have the correct model of each.  I have two 24" trinitron tv's (KF-24FV300 & KV-24FS100) for my next couple of builds.  Just ordered my TC1600 from Crescendo Systems.   The TV's were picked up for $20 each and the transcoder came to about $180 with shipping.  So, for an even $200 I should be able to achieve arcade monitor quality at a reasonable price.

Obviously, the PC monitor would be the cheaper (and easier) route but I prefer to invest in the display (and controls) over other things.

[happyfunball]

I would be of the opinion that the TV with the transcoder would be the better picture quality.  The only caveat to that would be that you will need to ensure you have the correct model of each.  I have two 24" trinitron tv's (KF-24FV300 & KV-24FS100) for my next couple of builds.  Just ordered my TC1600 from Crescendo Systems.   The TV's were picked up for $20 each and the transcoder came to about $180 with shipping.  So, for an even $200 I should be able to achieve arcade monitor quality are a reasonable price.

Obviously, the PC monitor would be the cheaper (and easier) route but I prefer to invest in the display (and controls) over other things.

for less than 200 you can find a working arcade monitor and get an arcadevga. 180 for a transcoder seems massive overkill, although I grant probably easier to set up.

[Dawgz Rule]

If the goal is to pass the native resolutions to the TV, it is important that you find a transcoder that will not upscale the signal.   The TC1600 is a proven transcoder that has been tested by others on this forum which is why I chose it.  rCadeGaming's post goes into more detail regarding this and if you check the specs on the "cheaper" transcoders you will find that they won't fit the bill. 

You might be able to find a 19" arcade monitor for $200 but good luck finding a 25" or larger a that price. 

Again, it goes back to personal preference and what you are trying to achieve. 

[happyfunball]

If the goal is to pass the native resolutions to the TV, it is important that you find a transcoder that will not upscale the signal.   The TC1600 is a proven transcoder that has been tested by others on this forum which is why I chose it.  rCadeGaming's post goes into more detail regarding this and if you check the specs on the "cheaper" transcoders you will find that they won't fit the bill. 

You might be able to find a 19" arcade monitor for $200 but good luck finding a 25" or larger a that price. 

Again, it goes back to personal preference and what you are trying to achieve.

true, I don't begrudge your choice, just seemed really expensive.

and you can find arcade monitors for way less than 200 bucks, I have 15 working ones in my garage and i didn't pay anywhere close to that for any of them.

[Dungeonsdeep]

If the goal is to pass the native resolutions to the TV, it is important that you find a transcoder that will not upscale the signal.   The TC1600 is a proven transcoder that has been tested by others on this forum which is why I chose it.  rCadeGaming's post goes into more detail regarding this and if you check the specs on the "cheaper" transcoders you will find that they won't fit the bill. 

You might be able to find a 19" arcade monitor for $200 but good luck finding a 25" or larger a that price. 

Again, it goes back to personal preference and what you are trying to achieve.

true, I don't begrudge your choice, just seemed really expensive.

and you can find arcade monitors for way less than 200 bucks, I have 15 working ones in my garage and i didn't pay anywhere close to that for any of them.

Interested in selling a smaller one? I can't find them around my city.

[happyfunball]

all my monitors are 19 inches. the only 13 inch one I have is a vector in my asteroids deluxe cocktail and I won't be selling that one.
I was planning to sell a few. I don't need that many, I just grab them when i find them. I've been recapping and searching for compatible tubes to swap out when I can.
didn't realize you were so close.

if you're interested, PM me and we can hash out some details.