Can groovymame display Galaxian how I want it > sharp and integer scaled.

[jimmer]

Following previous advice:
I've created mame.ini
and set "monitor lcd" and the "aspect 16:10"

Galaxian fills the screen, probably as you'd expect, but that's not what I want.

Can I get it to use just a central column of screen? I'm not too fussy anything around 3:4 would be good. And I'd prefer black borders top and bottom to non-integer scaling.


Note: my actual arcade machines will either be 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 or 1920x1080.  I'm assuming I'll be able to adapt any advice to those.

[Calamity]

Hi jimmer,

By reading your post I understand that the picture just fills the screen without respecting the aspect ratio. That's not what you'd expect unless your setup is wrong.

This is what I get here (2560x1600):

[jimmer]

That's what I'm after !

Something seems to have gone wrong then.

It's a windows7 64bit compilation.
I downloaded the files fresh, mame0153 and 0153_groovymame_015b.diff and hi_153.diff

did the patches
patch -p0 -E <hi_153.diff
patch -p0 -E <0153_groovymame_015b.diff

then compiled as usual.

my mame64.exe is 97560064 bytes. Anyone confirm that's correct?



edit:
my 32bit exe is 84060160 bytes

it gives same result (fills screen) on winXP / Dell dual core / 1920x1080

[Calamity]

Did you create mame.ini as it is supposed to:

groovymame.exe -cc

[jimmer]

Yes.
here is my mame.ini

[jimmer]

PS.
My executable is not called groovymame.exe   
Just mame.exe or mame64.exe 
That doesn't indicate a problem does it?

[Calamity]

Your mame.ini is fine.

What about other vertical games?

Have you tried deleting all .cfg files?

[jimmer]

config files deleted.

same result (filled screen) with DonkeyKong, Pengo.

[Calamity]

Post a log please:

groovymame.exe romname -v >romname.txt

[jimmer]

This is the 32bit version run from windows7

[machyavel]

hello, try this

lcd_range                 49-61

I need it even though my lcd is 60Hz only, else I get full stretch.

edit: hum strange, this seems not true anymore. 

[Calamity]

It looks like GM is not able to access your mame.ini for some reason, so it's not reading your "monitor lcd" option. Try to figure out what the reason for this can be. What folder have you placed groovymame.exe and its ini in? Anyway, GM must be run with ADMIN RIGHTS.

[jimmer]

Calamity.   ooops that log was from a version that was missing the mame.ini   

Machyavel,  49-61 produces the correct shape.  But it runs chronically slow. It says 33% but feels slower.

here is the log and  mame.ini

[jimmer]

PC is i3 3.3GHz with old video card: GEForce 7300LE  SLI Disabled.


just going to try it on my Dell dual core arcade machine

[Calamity]

My advice is to set the desktop to 60 Hz instead of 59 as you have it now.

Apart from that, the card might be slow for prescaling, which is quite odd, try forcing a lower prescale value from command line (-prescale 2) to see if it makes any difference.

[jimmer]

Just back from the garage. It runs full speed on the Dell dual core.

It's fuzzy though.
Is it  integer scaling I want to cure that ?

[jimmer]

My advice is to set the desktop to 60 Hz instead of 59 as you have it now.

Apart from that, the card might be slow for prescaling, which is quite odd, try forcing a lower prescale value from command line (-prescale 2) to see if it makes any difference.

For some reason 60Hz won't stick, it changes back to 59 right away.

prescale 2 doubles the speed. 49% instaed of 26%

I'm not bothered about my win7 desktop. If it's a different problem then let's not worry about it. The arcade machine is the important one.

[Calamity]

Just back from the garage. It runs full speed on the Dell dual core.

It's fuzzy though.
Is it  integer scaling I want to cure that ?

Is that an LCD? Depending on the LCD's native resolution compared to the game GM may decide to use integer scaling or not. Post a log so I see what's going on.

[machyavel]

My dell u2312 1920x1200 is actually set (and stuck) @59Hz as well.

Noted your win7 doesnt bother you much anyway it seems like prescale 1 would give something about 98-99%, meaning correct speed since galaxian runs @60.6. Just give it a try for the record...

[jimmer]

My dell u2312 1920x1200 is actually set (and stuck) @59Hz as well.

Noted your win7 doesnt bother you much anyway it seems like prescale 1 would give something about 98-99%, meaning correct speed since galaxian runs @60.6. Just give it a try for the record...

Got 88% like that, but doesn't look so good. I need me some integer scaling

[jimmer]

Just back from the garage. It runs full speed on the Dell dual core.

It's fuzzy though.
Is it  integer scaling I want to cure that ?

Is that an LCD? Depending on the LCD's native resolution compared to the game GM may decide to use integer scaling or not. Post a log so I see what's going on.

1920x1080 LCD. Just off to get a log. 

here is the log:

[Calamity]

It looks like you have the desktop set at a wrong resolution (1280x1024), you should be using the native one (1920x1080).

[jimmer]

I just spotted that in the log myself.  Doh!  I was in a rush when I put the arcade cab together.

Just corrected the resolution. Mame runs OK, using ddr option Galaxian is too small (my original problem).

groovymame doesn't work. I can hear the game running, but I get a few jagged white triangles only on screen.
log for that:
 

[Calamity]

What if you force -prescale 1 or 2?

[jimmer]

What if you force -prescale 1 or 2?

No difference, just white triangles on black.

[Calamity]

What if you force -prescale 1 or 2?

No difference, just white triangles on black.

Did you try it from command line? (I mean not from mame.ini)

[jimmer]

yeah, I only tried it command line.

I'm going to set up some more machines to see what they do:

Dell optiplex745 core2 duo, winXP, Asus 1920x1080 (this is what I'm using at the moment)
Dell optiplex745 core2 duo, winXP, Dell 1600x1200
Dell optiplex745 core2 duo, winXP, Dell 1280x1024

Would it help if I added the optional video cards?  256MB ATI Radeon™ X1300 Pro

[jimmer]

update:

It isn't a groovymame problem.  mame0153 just doesn't work at 1920x1080 on my Dell for some reason.
mame0148 does work. 

[Calamity]

Hi jimmer, sorry for the late answer. I read about problems with MAME and Intel cards, this was some time ago in the mameworld forums, maybe you'll find more information there.

[jimmer]

I'm about to compile groovymame0148 and then I'll be back with more questions.

regular mame:
Since last post I have discovered d3d -nofilter. That gives me the crisp picture I like in normal mame. So with Galaxian it fills the screen vertically. But I still have this urge for integer scaling, knowing there are extra lines in there just bugs me. I want Galaxian to be 256x4 = 1024 high on my 1920x1080 lcd.


groovymame:
I discovered when rotating my 1280x1024 lcd that vertically groovymame gives a switchres warning and then displays a crisp image. but horizontally gives no error popup and a fuzzy image.

So, how do I force a crisp image in groovymame?

And I think you said before that I couldn't choose my own integer scale factors? But can I force integer scaling and keep aspect ratio?

[ZeroPoint]

Hi,

Have you tried this:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,113151.msg1413508.html#msg1413508

If you merge hlslpath, hlsl, resolution and aspect ratio settings from vertical.ini into your galaxian.ini it may work. Also copy the folders and artwork.

I will try this myself later. 

[jimmer]

Calamity:
I'm ready for help   groovymame0148 up and running.
It's doing the same as before, filling the screen vertically(1080), correct aspect, fuzzy.
I'd like either a) 1080high crisp  or preferably b) 4x256=1024high and crisp.

ZeroPoint:
Im on groovymame0148. Are you saying that I'll be able to get what I want using that vertical_mod ? I can see it does all sorts of things I don't want, and it looks like overkill, but if it will work I'll have a go at understanding it all.

[ZeroPoint]

I tried groovymame 0.153 on my Dell 1920x1200 monitor and have no problem getting a crisp image.

From the default installation the only changes I made in mame.ini was :

keepaspect 1
modeline_generation 0
monitor lcd
resolution 1920x1200@60

-------------

If you want to try the mod, I have attached the files (only a test for galaxian) for 0.153 and made it simple to use.

Just copy "hlslgalaxian" to your mame folder and copy galaxian.ini and galaxian.cfg to their respective folders.

This mod is for 1920 x 1200 resolution. (Can't get "switchres 1" to work for some reason, so you should set your desktop resolution to this first.)

I made this mod to get a larger image on horizontal LCDs. (Just like an arcade monitor tilted back.)

If you don't like the curviness, just set "pincushion" to 0 in galaxian.ini

[Calamity]

Calamity:
I'm ready for help   groovymame0148 up and running.
It's doing the same as before, filling the screen vertically(1080), correct aspect, fuzzy.
I'd like either a) 1080high crisp  or preferably b) 4x256=1024high and crisp.

a) GM forces -filter on when fractional stretching is applied. All you need to do is forcing -filter off, but you can't do this from mame.ini as the SwitchRes patch has higher priority. Either use a game specific ini file or the vertical.ini file for that.

b) GM is already doing that, at least here

Ok, I've downloaded GroovyUME 0.148u2 Windows 64bit from here. I've created ume.ini and edited the roms path, "monitor lcd", and "aspect ratio 16:9". I've set my monitor resolution at 1920x1080 to match yours. Now when I launch galaxian I get two nice borders up and down and a crisp picture. I've attached my ume.ini, log, and a picture

The important bit is here:

Code: [Select]

SwitchRes: [galaxian] (1) vertical (224x256@60.61)->(1920x1080@60.00)
   rng(0): 1920 x1080_60.000p 67.080 [integ] scale(4, 4, 1) diff(0.17, 5.10, -0.6061) ratio(8.571, 4.219)
As you see [integ] means integer scaling, 4 is the scaling factor, etc.

[jimmer]

If you want to try the mod, I have attached the files (only a test for galaxian) for 0.153 and made it simple to use.

Just copy "hlslgalaxian" to your mame folder and copy galaxian.ini and galaxian.cfg to their respective folders.

This mod is for 1920 x 1200 resolution. (Can't get "switchres 1" to work for some reason, so you should set your desktop resolution to this first.)

I made this mod to get a larger image on horizontal LCDs. (Just like an arcade monitor tilted back.)

If you don't like the curviness, just set "pincushion" to 0 in galaxian.ini

Well I got this working straight off. On my desktop PC video card combo it runs at 20% speed though. I'll keep this in the back of my mind, but it's not what I'm after at the moment.

[jimmer]

I'd like either a) 1080high crisp  or.......

a) GM forces -filter on when fractional stretching is applied. All you need to do is forcing -filter off, but you can't do this from mame.ini as the SwitchRes patch has higher priority. Either use a game specific ini file or the vertical.ini file for that.

Got this working by the vertical.ini method.

[Calamity]

Got this working by the vertical.ini method.

The idea was to get it working without that (method B)

In other words: I need no special setup to achieve that in my system. It's the default behaviour.

[ZeroPoint]

Well I got this working straight off. On my desktop PC video card combo it runs at 20% speed though. I'll keep this in the back of my mind, but it's not what I'm after at the moment.

Yes. HLSL needs some GPU-power. (Nice to see you reached your goal on integer scaling.)

If you want, you can try to lower the hlsl_prescale_x and hlsl_prescale_y in galaxian.ini to 2 or 0 (auto).

Not sure it will help you much because I can run a prescale value of 10 at 100% speed on my six year old computer.

And about the resolution: I found that SwitchRes does a good job selecting this, so it should be no problem using 1080 and 1024 lines also. Just change the resolution to "auto" and aspect ratio to whatever works best.

[jimmer]

The idea was to get it working without that (method B)

In other words: I need no special setup to achieve that in my system. It's the default behaviour.

I'm working on it

I've managed to compile groovymame0148u2 now.

Using your ume.ini  renamed to mame.ini :

This gives me x4 integer scaling on my arcade rig  (dell 745 / 1920x1080).    But it's fuzzy. 

If I copy it and name it vertical.ini  I'm back to crisp but full screen (even after putting in lcd_range 49-61).

I'll check everything and try again from scratch, then post a log if I can't work it out.


Note: these are the only differences I could see in the ini file to what I was using already. Is that the integer scaling bit? or is that just coincidence (the 4)
#
# VECTOR POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_time_scale         0.0
vector_time_period        0.1
vector_length_scale       0.9
vector_length_ratio       4.0

[Calamity]

I've managed to compile groovymame0148u2 now.

May I ask why are you compiling your own binaries? Maybe something you need to add?

This gives me x4 integer scaling on my arcade rig  (dell 745 / 1920x1080).    But it's fuzzy. 

It shouldn't be fuzzy. Maybe it's related to the Intel drivers. ATI drivers won't produce a fuzzy picture when integer scaling is used. Please post a log with the exact situation so I can see if we're missing something.

If I copy it and name it vertical.ini  I'm back to crisp but full screen (even after putting in lcd_range 49-61).

Oops, you can't do that. In vertical.ini you must only add the options you want to modify. If you place the whole set of options then GM won't be able to adjust the configuration properly.

[Calamity]

Note: these are the only differences I could see in the ini file to what I was using already. Is that the integer scaling bit? or is that just coincidence (the 4)

No, that's only related to vector games.

[jimmer]

grrrrrrr lost all my post when it disallowed .ini attachment 

anyway.....IT WORKS     



I was deleting big chunks of the vertical.ini file and either it suddenly worked because of that (maybe because of what you said about not repeating everything)

or by coincidence I had just been into control panel and re-applied the setting (no change)


I'll go back out to the garage and try some more controlled experiments. I need to get Defender displaying integer scaled as well.

[jimmer]

May I ask why are you compiling your own binaries? Maybe something you need to add?

I add fixes to Robotron and add some more Robotron and Defender ROMs to my build.

mame153 includes the Robotron fixes now (mostly, I think) but that doesn't run yet on my Dell 755

[jimmer]

This gives me x4 integer scaling on my arcade rig  (dell 745 / 1920x1080).    But it's fuzzy. 

It shouldn't be fuzzy. Maybe it's related to the Intel drivers. ATI drivers won't produce a fuzzy picture when integer scaling is used. Please post a log with the exact situation so I can see if we're missing something.

Here is the log for just your ume.ini renamed to mame.ini   
Giving integer scaling but fuzzy.

[Calamity]

I think the -prescale option might be the problem.

Create a vector.ini vertical.ini file with only this content:

Code: [Select]

prescale 1
And try galaxian together with the mame.ini from your previous post.

[jimmer]

YAY that works.   (vertical.ini not vector)

So which options are giving the integer scaling?
Is my request difficult because integer scaling with custom resolution is the default design case?


oh yes,
I tried horizontal.ini = prescale 1   
gives Defender  full height and fuzzy.

[Calamity]

So which options are giving the integer scaling?

The option is -cleanstretch.
But -cleanstretch is enabled automatically by GroovyMAME when it judges it convenient (i.e. if doing so doesn't produce huge borders).

Is my request difficult because integer scaling with custom resolution is the default design case?

No, actually your request is the default behaviour, this is what I've been trying to explain

But GM also handles the -prescale option, to get a better (less blurry) result in the situations where integer scaling is not a reasonable option. I believe that the problem is your Intel card doesn't seem to like the -prescale option. This could be the reason why starting with v0.149 you can't get it working at all.

oh yes,
I tried horizontal.ini = prescale 1   
gives Defender  full height and fuzzy.

So you mean it doesn't work for horizontal games?

[jimmer]

Frogger, Q*Bert are what I want (integer)

Galaga, Asteroids, Defender, Streetfighter are all full height fuzzy.

I guess it's to do with what it considers a reasonable border to be. Can I just change my groovymame diff to allow 25% borders?

edit: going out now, but I think I see the 10% (5%?) border in the code. Will have a play later.

[Calamity]

Yeah you may try that from the source code, or maybe simply force the -cleanstretch & filter options in your vertical/horizontal ini files:

Code: [Select]

cleanstretch 1
filter 0

[jimmer]

I altered the groovymame diff like this (guessing, didn't have time to work out what the ratios mean yet):
if (!(y_ratio >= 1.0 && y_ratio < 16.0 && y_diff < 10.0))
to
if (!(y_ratio >= 1.0 && y_ratio < 60.0 && y_diff < 40.0))

On my desktop 1920x1200 This works for all games with just mame.ini

On my arcade Dell 745 / lcd 1920x1080. This gives the wanted integer scaling, but needs additional vertical.ini (prescale 1) to get the unfiltered crisp look.

Adding the same horizontal.ini doesn't get a crisp Defender.

However I discovered something odd: If I run groovymame and pick Defender (or SF2) from the gamelist it comes fuzzy, but if I then choose a vertical game (crisp), when I go back to Defender (or SF2) again it is crisp. So it looks like there is something sticky that once it gets set it stays set.

[jimmer]

Well, I've worked around most of the obstacles now.
 
My Dell optiplex745s with intel Q965 work fine with mame0153, it's the later optiplex755s with intelQ35 that doesn't like it.

horizontal.ini (prescale=1) doesn't give me a crisp defender, but I can use defender.ini (prescale=1)

[Calamity]

horizontal.ini (prescale=1) doesn't give me a crisp defender, but I can use defender.ini (prescale=1)

Hi jimmer, you need to use horizont.ini instead of horizontal.ini iirc.

[jimmer]

aha, great, I'm all good then (almost).

Next step looking into framedelay and whatever else to see if I can get rid of screen tear on Defender.

Is it possible to get Groovymame as a series of hacks still ? (like cabmame), because I probably want to ditch all the switchres complication. And maybe modify cleanstretch to give me the scaling options I want.

[haynor666]

I would also like to know how to force cleanstretch in source.

Right now I'm using groovymame with 21 '' TV and I can't enable cleanstretch for 25 KHz games. I prefer to play them with huge borders instead stretched to full screen. I did set cleanstetch to 1 even in [game].ini file. I was able to hack cleanstretch only in render.c but that's not enough for switchres.

[Calamity]

I would also like to know how to force cleanstretch in source.

Right now I'm using groovymame with 21 '' TV and I can't enable cleanstretch for 25 KHz games. I prefer to play them with huge borders instead stretched to full screen. I did set cleanstetch to 1 even in [game].ini file. I was able to hack cleanstretch only in render.c but that's not enough for switchres.

It's wiser to use a custom crt_range for that rather than forcing cleanstretch in code. If GM is opting to apply fractional scaling despite your forcing of cleanstretch is probably because the resulting vertical borders are not acceptable. In order to judge whether borders are acceptable or not it uses the progressive_lines_min & interlaced_lines_min values in your crt_range.

[haynor666]

I really don't understand. Those parametrs says how min and max lines my TV can generate using progressive modes and again min i max lines that can generate using interlaced modes. I don't see any connection to cleanstretch option.

What I like to set for example:

Hot Rod is 496x384@57,524 aspect 1,292, that 24 Hz mode that my TV cannot set so decides to use instead 640496@57,524 aspect 1,29 or even switchres choice 656x512@57,524 aspect 1,281 BUT with black border around picture forcing scale 1:1.

Another example:

Argus 256x224@54 I would like to put in 272x240 instead 256x240 but then groovymame tries to stretch 256 lines to 272 I don't know hot to force cleanstretch.

[Calamity]

What version are you using? Make sure to use the last one. I'll comment the rest in a while.

[haynor666]

156

I think I've found bug:
If I manually choose resolution in specific .ini file stretching is enabled to full screen.

Examples:

1942 is 256x224 and I set 256x240 in ini file then game is stretched to 256x240 but if I set resolution through command line -resolution 256x240 when ini for game is not present then game starts with black borders on both sides.

Argus is 256x224 and I set 288x240 in ini file then game is stretched to 288x240 but if I set resolution through command line -resolution 288x240 when ini for game is not present then game starts with black borders on all four sides.

Just to make sure I've made screens using PrtScrn key and after paste result to Paint.

[Calamity]

Please create a log to see what's going on:

groovymame.exe 1942 -v >1942.txt
(do this with and without the game's .ini)

BTW, when you create a specific game's .ini, make sure NOT to copy the whole mame.ini! Put ONLY the options you want to override from mame.ini.

[haynor666]

Ok, so I was doing wrong by copying whole mame.ini as [game].ini a then changing resolution0 option.

When I set only one line in 1942.ini resolution0 256x240 then game starts with black borders.

But still groovymame stretches 24kHz games. Hot Rod still plays in full screen. Oh well, with filter enabled doesn't look so bad.

Another problem. I'm planning to play 8080bw and mw8080bw with 256x240 (all of those games does not draw anything important in first 4 lines counting from either left (or sometimes right (phantom2, steelwkr) side).
With normal mame and applied cleanstretch diff from cabmame I always played with d3d and 256x240. All I have to do was position in mame those games a bit. But again after I force groovymame to use 256x240 stretching is applied and is shrinked from 260x224 to 256x240. Hopefully this method works in groovymame but only with ddraw. Any advise Calamity? Should I stay with ddraw for those games or there is some solution?

[Calamity]

But still groovymame stretches 24kHz games. Hot Rod still plays in full screen. Oh well, with filter enabled doesn't look so bad.

For this you really need to trust me regarding the progressive/interlaced line limiters I mentioned above. Bear in mind 384p is actually OUT OF RANGE for arcade_15 because it doesn't fall between either 192-288 or 448-576. That's why it's virtualizing the resolution. So try using 384-576 as your interlaced min max values respectively.

Another problem. I'm planning to play 8080bw and mw8080bw with 256x240 (all of those games does not draw anything important in first 4 lines counting from either left (or sometimes right (phantom2, steelwkr) side).

One of GM's modeline engine premises is that it does NOT crop games. If you force it to run with a resolution below native it will use fractional scaling. In other words, integer scaling requires a scaling factor equal or above 1.

Honestly I don't see a reason for what you're trying to do, nor for using 272x240 instead of 256x240. Those tricks may make sense with baseline MAME but not with GroovyMAME. If you want to play with borders size, just use the desired values in a custom crt_range instead of messing with the resolution itself. Everything is ready to be fully customizable, but you need to learn the way things work.

[haynor666]

Thanks Calamity for explanations. I must say it was already explained in VMMaker doc I somehow I forgot about this. Setting 384 in interlaced range indeed disabled stretching was resolution that switchres choose. Now I have to play with different resolutions.