Mirror Image Games

[EssexMame]

I'm sure the solution is simple but I've searched here and googled without success.

For Operation Thunderbolt - I have a mirror image (I understand the screen was shown via a mirror in the original cabinet).

It's not rotated, and I can't find options or dipswitches to make it a 'normal' image. Is it the Rom, and others are not mirrored or perhaps a setting in mame.ini othunder.cfg that I'm missing?

[Howard_Casto]

mame.exe romname -flipx  -flipy

Not every option is in the pretty menu. 

*edit* 

That being said, by default it is NOT flipped in mame, you shouldn't be getting a mirrored image.  So this means you have a stray ini file or something somewhere setting the flipx and flipy

[EssexMame]

Thanks Howard, it certainly is odd.

I don't have any ini files at present - it's all from the mame.ini. I had tried removing the cfg file but no improvement (as expected). Perhaps I have an old mame rom for this.

Not all games are flipped - only seems to be othunder and t2. I'll take a closer look tonight. If I can flip back though at least that's something - so thanks a lot.

[Malenko]

*edit* 

That being said, by default it is NOT flipped in mame, you shouldn't be getting a mirrored image.  So this means you have a stray ini file or something somewhere setting the flipx and flipy

The image is flipped because the games outputted a mirrored image by default. I am setting up a new MAME (.152) install and was baffled when I fired up lethal enforcers and everything was flipped, even the menu that pops up when you hit tab.

[EssexMame]

I'm mame 0.152 also - so, would seem to be the default in later mames to be flipped?

Makes sense, if the original was a mirrored game -as I belive othunder was.

Thanks both, I'll flipx/flipy back again for these games and all should be well.

[Howard_Casto]

WTF?  Surely this is an error or something.  I'm running 1.48 and it's still the right way around on it.  My guess is this will be fixed because honestly it's ridiculous to think they'd have it unreadable on a standard monitor by default. 

Then again the mame devs venture into crazy town every once in a while, so I dunno. 

[Malenko]

WTF?  Surely this is an error or something.  I'm running 1.48 and it's still the right way around on it.  My guess is this will be fixed because honestly it's ridiculous to think they'd have it unreadable on a standard monitor by default. 

Then again the mame devs venture into crazy town every once in a while, so I dunno.

just downloaded .152 to a new machine that's never had MAME ran on it, created a new MAME.ini , ran lethal enforcers and everything is mirrored even the internal MAME menu

[Haze]

they'll appear flipped / rotated if you run with -norotate, because that disables all rotation / flipping MAME applies to things to keep them the right way up...  (although i'm a little surprised by the direction they end up flipped in)

otherwise they appear just fine...

unless there was an actual bug in 0.152, but it's fine in SVN, and the recent screen flipping changes aren't related to this, but a longer term issue whereby it was really hard to support flipscreen in some games.

[pbj]

I got $20 cash in hand for someone that can reprogram Donkey Kong to flip the levels left to right but keep the text the same.

[Howard_Casto]

they'll appear flipped / rotated if you run with -norotate, because that disables all rotation / flipping MAME applies to things to keep them the right way up...  (although i'm a little surprised by the direction they end up flipped in)

otherwise they appear just fine...

unless there was an actual bug in 0.152, but it's fine in SVN, and the recent screen flipping changes aren't related to this, but a longer term issue whereby it was really hard to support flipscreen in some games.

Yeah I'm guessing if multiple people are having the issue it's a bug in 152.   I can't imagine why someone would have -norotate set unless they don't understand what it does.   

Now you've got me curious... what exactly was changed to the screen flipping stuff?

[EssexMame]

Pretty certain I don't have -norotate on the command line or set in the mame.ini so unless it is accidentally set I think it looks more like a 0.152 bug or deliberate mamedev decision. I did wonder if from Mame 0.152 the mamedev decided that was the correct setting for these games and that is why it is reversed/flipped by default? i.e. I assumed they were like that as that is the original setup for these games - they are shown via a mirrored screen. I don't know that for sure though. opwolf is fine though perhaps that wasn't a mirrored screen in the cab and othunder is?

The games I have that are affected are lethalen (needs -flipy to correct), term2 (needs -flipx) and othunder (also flipx). There of course may be others that I don't have in my cab.

[EssexMame]

To add, I am mame 0.149 (with highscore/nonag) and am experiencing these issues with flipx/flipy so the bug/change was introduced then it would seem - and not just 0.152.

I will experiment more tonight - I didn't get enough chance yesterday.

[Malenko]

To add, I am mame 0.149 (with highscore/nonag) and am experiencing these issues with flipx/flipy so the bug/change was introduced then it would seem - and not just 0.152.

I will experiment more tonight - I didn't get enough chance yesterday.

I dont think its a bug, it seems very deliberate.

[Haze]

To add, I am mame 0.149 (with highscore/nonag) and am experiencing these issues with flipx/flipy so the bug/change was introduced then it would seem - and not just 0.152.

I will experiment more tonight - I didn't get enough chance yesterday.

I dont think its a bug, it seems very deliberate.

The default for the games mentioned isn't flipped.

I suspect it's the dodgy hacks people are applying.

[Malenko]

well even the MAME menu is flipped (not the controls) and Im not using -norotate or anything like that, brand new set up on a newly formatted system. And its only for games that used a mirror, like Lethal Enforcers. That's why I said I believe its deliberate. Im using the vanilla mame exe. Does it on both mame.exe and the mameui.exe

[EssexMame]

I've downloaded mame 0.152 and run without any changes the othunder.zip ROM. However, it's not the SAME othunder.zip (that isn't available to me at present).

So, it's either 0.149, the higscore/nag patch of 0.149, or the options/ini/cfg I currently have, or the othunder rom I had before. I'll try 0.152 with the original othunder that was flipping later.

malenko - I was also getting a flopped MAME menu as you describe - it made the settings difficult to check! The TAITO logo onwards at startup in othunder was also flipped. I also see it only for games that used a mirror also.

[Haze]

it's certainly not deliberate and is being caused by something on your system..

[Malenko]

it's certainly not deliberate and is being caused by something on your system..

Cool. I just put MAME .152 on a surface , ran lethalenforcers and its flipped.   went to a desktop in the office, downloaded mame and the rom from a different place than what I have now. same thing happens.  My DNA must be doing it.

[Haze]

does it happen with -video ddraw,  if so maybe we've reached the point where gfx card drivers are so bad they can't flip an image properly..

[Malenko]

does it happen with -video ddraw,  if so maybe we've reached the point where gfx card drivers are so bad they can't flip an image properly..

I went to get a fresh MAME form mame.net

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EDIT: the version I got from http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/arcade/mame.html  DOESNT flip lethal enforcers . Also, I was using MAME .146 not .152  so 152 seems to have it fixed, whomp whomp.

EDIT2: I was using MAME copied from my house (without any ini, cfg, or NVRams) and it was .146 for when I was getting the mirrored screens on 146 but not on 152, so I guess the bug was fixed?

[Haze]

0.146 is almost 2 years old, I really can't remember what bugs it had ;-)

[Malenko]

0.146 is almost 2 years old, I really can't remember what bugs it had ;-)

believe it or not I dont play MAME/MESS (or even games in general) much. I wouldnt have even known about his if I didnt just buy an AIMTrak from Ginsu. I was secretly hoping you were gonna say "yeah Aaron was high and decided to mirror the image on mirror imaged games" or something to that effect.

[EssexMame]

I've tried a fresh 0.152 install and othunder was not flipped
Tried in same directory with my 0.149 mame.exe and still not flipped
Tried with my 0.149 mame.ini and it was flipped
mame -cc in sets rotate=1 and discovered rotate=0 in my mame.ini
othunder then not flipped

So, it seemed that rotate=1 fixed the problem EXCEPT term2 in this same setup is STILL flipped ?!

[EssexMame]

lethalen also correct now, so it's just term2

[EssexMame]

and, removing term2.cfg has resolved that also

So, for me its resolved with the rotate=1 (it had somehow gone to 0). All working now then. Although the mame0.152 and clean ini file setups with the problem of others above are still odd