Pacdrive freezing issue

[boxerman]

A while back I rebuilt a DDR machine retrofitted with a PC with an ATX motherboard and 64-bit XP to run OpenITG, a variant of Stepmania, which is a free DDR-like program with tons of extra features. OpenITG has the ability to control the cabinet and dance pad lights, so I wired up a relay array to control a bunch of 12v LED's and the bass neon lights. The Pacdrive only serves to fire the 12v relays, so it provides no power to the lights. It has worked flawlessly for the last year or so until I decided to swap the ATX mobo for a MicroATX so I could fit the whole thing in a case inside the cabinet (there's not much room). The swap went perfectly except for one thing: randomly after anywhere between 10 seconds and 5 minutes, the Pacdrive will either freeze on whatever light was on before the instance of error or will appear to turn off entirely. It will not disconnect from the entire computer though, so whenever OpenITG is restarted the Pacdrive works fine again until the next freeze. I've tried everything from a new MicroATX mobo to different slots and programs and registry edits to making deals with the devil.

I worked really hard on this whole array and light system and I would really hate to have to compromise the safety of my computer by reinstalling the old mobo. Has anyone else had this kind of freezing issue with a Pacdrive before? Perhaps a power issue?

[twistedsymphony]

I'm actually working on getting PacDrive functioning within (non ITG) SM 3.9... I haven't run into this issue before.

I would start by checking the log file (or if you don't have one turn on logging) the OpenITG PacDrive Lights Driver has code in there to dump error messages to the log file if it loses communication with the pac drive.

Other things that might lend insight:
Are you still running XP 64 or did you change to a different OS?

Are you using the same USB cable as before? the PacDrive uses USB for power so you'll want to use a heavy gauge USB cable designed for high power draw.

Have you made sure that the USB drivers for your new Mobo are Installed correctly (sometimes there are specific chipset drivers that work better than the generic driver that Windows Uses by Default)... are you sure that your new Mobo properly supports your chosen OS?

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I'm also curious why you're running XP 64... SM was designed for 32-bit Windows, and Open ITG was designed for Linux.  The PacDrive SDK was also designed for a 32-bit system as well. You might have better luck changing your OS.

[boxerman]

Thank you SO much for the reply.

I believe I have logging turned on, but there could be a seperate log to turn on I don't know about. Is it an option in StepMania.ini?

I installed Windows 7 to test but no dice yet. I'm going to install the USB 3.0 drivers tonight and try a new cord too.

The mobo supports XP 64 bit and Asus has the corresponding drivers available on their website, all of which I've installed. I chose to go with the 64 bit OS to maximize the amount of processing power so I would never run into performance issues with foreground effects, background videos, or anything. I know that SM can be a bit of a power hog. Like I said, everything is working flawlessly otherwise so I'm not too keen on changing the OS when it doesn't seem necessary.

[twistedsymphony]

I don't know where you got the idea that SM is a power hog... it's probably one of the least resource intensive games you'll fine.

You can typically run it on a 1GHz P3 without breaking a sweat.... no joke

My SM box uses an:
ASUS P5G-MX (MicroATX)
E2200 Core Duo Cpu @ 2.20Ghz
1GB PC2-5300 Ram
GeForce 7200 GS 256MB PCIe  (low profile/half height)

I bought the mobo+cpu+ram as a used pre-assembled kit for about $50... the graphics card I bought for a whopping $15 shipped 

I probably could have run it on the on-board Graphics but I heard that it really like GeForce based cards (especially old ones) so I picked one up to be on the safe side.

I'm running 32-bit Win XP SP2 (because that's what my install disc had and it works so why bother updating).

With this setup the game plays ROCK SOLID I haven't run into any issues yet.

----------------------------

As for the log file, I'm not sure where you turn it on but it should create a .log file in the root SM folder... I'm pretty sure there's only one file. during all the boot-up initialization you should see it mention loading the PacDrive Light Drivers... that will be the same file that it ouputs any errors too... (I'd start by searching for "lights" or "PacDrive")

[boxerman]

Oh yeah, I know stepmania itself isn't that power hungry, but certain simfiles exist out there that generate quite the load on the program itself. Building an OP box was my answer to any and all potential things my machine could.encounter that would produce lag, including hi def background videos.

Tried the cord swap, didn't work. Tried installing the usb 3 drivers and windows kicked back the "system is insufficient" error. Weird. Would Asus have some kind of 3rd party usb 3 chipset on this board?

I did find the log AND the instance of error. Here's the relevant line:

01:37.442: WARNING: PacDrive writing failed, returned -5: usb_control_msg: sending control message failed, win error: A device attached to the system is not functioning.

01:37.442: WARNING:
/////////////////////////////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////
01:37.442: WARNING: Lost connection with PacDrive.

Lots of good info there. I guess "win" error means it's an OS-side error? Maybe I should try a 32 bit OS...

[twistedsymphony]

USB 3.0 drivers wont work unless you have a USB 3.0 compliant chipset... if you're running an Asus motherboard then you should check out their website for the proper, chipset specific, drivers.

I'd try that before changing out your OS.

Based on the error message you received it does indeed sound like a problem with your OS or USB Driver setup.

[boxerman]

Absolutely. I wouldn't look anywhere else for drivers, but the installer simply didn't want to go through with it. No big deal, it doesn't work even with the normal 2.0 slots with the proper chipset drivers anyway.

Going back to what you said about the Pacdrive SDK being made for a 32 bit system, I'm going to try loading 32 bit XP back on tonight. It just seems strange to me that that's what would be the issue. Generally if something isn't compatible with the system it simply doesn't work at all, but in this case it works until it craps out at a random time. Ever heard of any other issues of that nature relating to the difference in architecture bit-wise?

Also, I know that the libusb driver needed to run it has a 64 bit device filter installer I needed to use. Could there be a specific libusb driver for the system I'm missing?

I'll post any results later on.

[twistedsymphony]

I say designed for 32-bit systems because the SDK project files are all originally for Microsoft Visual Studio 6.0 (this is the same platform originally used for SM 3.9 development... OpenITG is based on SM 3.9)

MSVC6 was released in 1998 and wasn't replaced until 2002... that puts the target OS as Win98/Win2K/WinXP since Vista wasn't released until 2006, even XP-64 wasn't released until 2002.

Basically this means that 64-bit wasn't even relevant when this software was developed.

StepMania seems to run fine on my Win7 64-bit laptop but I honestly don't know enough about the 32-bit/64-bit quirks to say for certain if that's your problem... it's just speculation.

Personally I find that it's best to run software in it's native environment for best results...

You might also consider trying Linux... Try to find the latest Ubunu Live CD ISO... you can burn that and boot from disc, put a copy of the linux ITG build on a thumb-drive and you should be able to see how well it runs without having to actually reinstall your OS.

I debated using Linux for my build but there was compatibility issues with some of the other hardware I'm using.

[boxerman]

I would love to use Linux, it is the native OS like you said after all, but using Windows is just a matter of convenience IMO. I barely have any experience with Linux, just a little Ubuntu. Yeah, it is best to run the programs in what they were made to run in, I just figured installing the best architecture for my hardware would outweigh the importance of the native software aspect.

[twistedsymphony]

Generally windows is pretty good about supporting old software, however when they started switching to 64-bit architecture a lot of compatibility problems arose. I develop internal engineering software for an aerospace company we ran into a ton of compatibility issues that required fixes and re-writes when we moved to 64-bit... Generally people who went from XP-32 to Win7-32 didn't have any problems it was all the people moving from XP-32 to Win7-64 or even Win7-32 to Win7-64....

If you like once I've got PacDrive output working in SM 3.9 (currently I've got cab lights working but not platform lights yet) I can do a stress test on my own Win 7-64 machine and see if I run into a similar issue that you have.

------------

As for Linux... it definitely has a learning curve, but support for Ubuntu is fantastic, it's very rare that I can't Google a solution to whatever problem I'm having. Not to mention on something like an SM box you really only have to get it setup and once you're up and running you'll rarely, if ever, need to touch it.

[boxerman]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Doesn't want to work on the 32 bit OS, but I've made some headway. On my old P8Z68-V Pro the same issue occured until I updated to bios revision 3402, the changelog of which says "Enhance compatibility with some USB devices". Whatever enhancements were made, I think one of them did the trick. I'm going to see if I can't shoot an email to Asus or do some research and find out what the particulars were and what parts of the mobo were affected.

Definitely let me know when you get full support for 3.9, I'd love to integrate it into Beware's Extreme and give it to some people I know who would love having it. Awesome work and thanks for all the help so far.

[twistedsymphony]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Doesn't want to work on the 32 bit OS, but I've made some headway. On my old P8Z68-V Pro the same issue occured until I updated to bios revision 3402, the changelog of which says "Enhance compatibility with some USB devices". Whatever enhancements were made, I think one of them did the trick. I'm going to see if I can't shoot an email to Asus or do some research and find out what the particulars were and what parts of the mobo were affected.

Definitely let me know when you get full support for 3.9, I'd love to integrate it into Beware's Extreme and give it to some people I know who would love having it. Awesome work and thanks for all the help so far.

I actually just finished getting it all working a few minutes ago... more info here: http://zenius-i-vanisher.com/v5.2/viewthread.php?threadid=5076&page=6#p311584

funny you should mention Beware's Extreme because that's exactly what I use and why I was trying to get better light output in 3.9

That's actually Beware's latest thread and he had the source code and compile instructions for his r3 release... I would imagine his next release will include my improved light code.

[boxerman]

Holy crap. That's awesome. I'll keep my eye out for the next release. Psyched now! Now if only someone could port it to X3...

I did some reading and found that certain newer boards (primarily Asus boards) have issues supplying constant current without error to usb devices. The Pacdrive takes up 500 mA at all times according to Windows and I can't install any 3.0 drivers which would presumably up their maximum current to 900 mA. Gonna try using a 4 port hub with external power and I've had a dual usb header extension to provide 2 ports worth of power being shipped now. Fingers crossed

[twistedsymphony]

that sounds like it might be a viable solution.

an external hub with it's own power supply should be problem free, albeit a bit messy, an internal card might be a crapshoot toward getting it to work.

[boxerman]

The hub totally worked. Apparently some Asus boards have bugs in the bios that causes issues with devices that have high power draw. What a crock. I'm going to let them know somehow to fix that in the next bios update. That new dual-head usb cord I'm getting should provide a more permanent solution for now hopefully. Thanks so much for the help though! Anything I can do for you? I may not be able to code yet but I do have access to all sorts of hardware for dance machines and such.

[twistedsymphony]

That is a crock... glad you got it working though. 

It's king of a hack but something you could do to get around having to use an external hub:

if you use a port that connects via a pin header on the motherboard (as opposed to being built into the motherboard) you could cut the power wires out of the mobo side of the connector and tie them into a 5V line from your power supply...

this would mean the USB port would only connect to the mother board for DATA and the PacDrive could have all the power it wants from the PSU.

[boxerman]

Not a bad idea at all. Unfortunately the only header's behind some particle board. Hopefully no further modding will be required after they read my support email asking for a fix to be released in the new bios update. I'll keep that in mine for the future though.