Dreamcast questions

[Grasshopper]

Hi,

I'm toying with the idea of buying a second hand Dreamcast, mainly because I've heard good things about them here.

Can someone tell me how much I should expect to pay? I've looked on Ebay but that is not always a good guide. I live in the UK.

I've built a control panel for running MAME on a PC and I'd also like to be able to use it with the Dreamcast if possible. This factor could affect whether or not I actually buy a Dreamcast as I'm not really keen on the standard Dreamcast controllers.

I hacked a ps/2 keyboard to make my panel. My second yet to be built panel will use an Ipac that I've already bought.

So I'm wondering whether there is a converter available to enable a ps/2 keyboard (or Ipac, Keywiz etc) to be used with the Dreamcast.

Thanks in advance.

[Dave_K.]

I see used Dreamcasts at GameStop stores (in the US) for $29.99 without a game...and $39.99 (online) with one game.  Maybe they will ship to the UK?

http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&keyword=&platform=5&lookin=title&range=all&genre=31&searchtype=adv&sortby=title&strAscDesc=1000&OrderAscDesc=Asc&imageFlag=show

You will not be able to use a dreamcast keyboard with an Ipac...sorry.  You will either have to go the molex connector route (or any other style connector to hookup to your control panel), or try the diode method to hook both up at the same time (this has been discussed at length many times please do a search for more info).  FYI, going the connector route is easier.

Personally I think its worth the $40 and added work to hookup a dreamcast to your cab (in contrast to the amount of time you probably took trying to hookup a computer/mame/ipac).  But hey, to each his own.

[TalkingOctopus]

try the diode method to hook both up at the same time (this has been discussed at length many times please do a search for more info)

I have searched for more information about the diode method and have never found anything on it.  Could someone please show me where this has been discussed?  (I am sure it has been but I just cannot find it).

Thanks!

[Grasshopper]

I see used Dreamcasts at GameStop stores (in the US) for $29.99 without a game...and $39.99 (online) with one game.  Maybe they will ship to the UK?

http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&keyword=&platform=5&lookin=title&range=all&genre=31&searchtype=adv&sortby=title&strAscDesc=1000&OrderAscDesc=Asc&imageFlag=show

You will not be able to use a dreamcast keyboard with an Ipac...sorry.  You will either have to go the molex connector route (or any other style connector to hookup to your control panel), or try the diode method to hook both up at the same time (this has been discussed at length many times please do a search for more info).  FYI, going the connector route is easier.

Personally I think its worth the $40 and added work to hookup a dreamcast to your cab (in contrast to the amount of time you probably took trying to hookup a computer/mame/ipac).  But hey, to each his own.

Thanks for the link. $30 is pretty cheap. However, by the time I've factored in the cost of having it shipped across the Atlantic it will probably be cheaper for me to buy one locally.

With regards to using a PC keyboard/Ipac/Keywiz with the Dreamcast, I've seen a number of convertors on Lik-Sang's site. Here's a link to one of them:

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=29&products_id=517&

Could one of these do the trick, or will it only work with games specifically designed to be used with the Dreamcast keyboard.

Thanks

[Dave_K.]

try the diode method to hook both up at the same time (this has been discussed at length many times please do a search for more info)

I have searched for more information about the diode method and have never found anything on it.  Could someone please show me where this has been discussed?  (I am sure it has been but I just cannot find it).

Thanks!

Hmmm...it looks like search may be broken.  I can't seem to pull up posts past this month searching with "diodes dreamcast" or "diodes ipac".  Even with max date range set to 9999 days ago.  I tried some searches across all forums, and get nothing, and then try against just "consoles" and got one hit.  So something definately not working right with search.

Anyway, this is all I could find so far:
http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=15;action=display;threadid=10451;start=msg82741#msg82741

Basically for every button on your hacked psx/dc pad you will need a diode before connecting to the arcade button (or ipac strip).  

Now there is one other major sticking point in my mind a lot of people miss.  And that is that you should not mix your grounds between two different circuits.  All grounds are not the same.  The Dreamcast uses a 2 prong AC cord, so its ground is only relative to the Dreamcast circuit.  A PC typically uses a 3 prong chord and depending upon if you plug that into a 3 prong wall outlet or not, you could have a voltage potential between the two grounds.

There are just to many things that could go wrong in this setup in my mind.  Sure you could say I will absolutely make sure I don't power my DC when my PC is powered up...but it could happen.  Sure you could check ground on both systems against a common earth ground to make sure there is no difference, but what if you change your power strip, and forget to use a 3 prong chord.

This is why everyone says its not worth all the hassel of soldering up all those diodes.  Its just easier to use a molex connector or something to isolate each circuit from the other.  Sure it may be a pain to open the cab coin door and flip a switch or unplug/plugin a connector...but you are garunteed the two systems won't interfere with each other.  Just my opinion.

[Dave_K.]

Thanks for the link. $30 is pretty cheap. However, by the time I've factored in the cost of having it shipped across the Atlantic it will probably be cheaper for me to buy one locally.

With regards to using a PC keyboard/Ipac/Keywiz with the Dreamcast, I've seen a number of convertors on Lik-Sang's site. Here's a link to one of them:

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=29&products_id=517&

Could one of these do the trick, or will it only work with games specifically designed to be used with the Dreamcast keyboard.

Sorry, there aren't any DC games specifically designed to be used with the keyboard (outside Typing of the Dead, and something like Phantasy Star Online...and these are for typing, not game movements and funtions).

[jr76]

Here is a quick explenation of what I just built and it seems to work, I haven't hooked up to a PC yet, but it should work fine.

I wired my joysticks and buttons to wire blocks. On the opposite side of the blocks I wired up db25 connectors which I plugged into the output/input db25 of a parallel switch connector.

I then hacked a DC pad, a PS2 pad, and an Xbox pad each to it's own db25 connector. I plugged these into A,B, and C on the parallel switch. This leaves D open for a PC encoder.

This eliminates the need for diodes since you only have one connection at a time. All the grounds and voltage for the pads are run through the parallel switch.

I drilled a 1  1/8" hole that the switch sticks through so I don't need to open the panel to select a different system.

I'd post pics but this was my first attempt at a control panel and was just for practice. I learned a lot when it comes to wood working, so I have more confidence when it finally comes time to build my cab.

[jerryjanis]

Aww, man, I was at EB Games here in the 'States today and they had their used Dreamcasts for sale for $19.99 and they came with a free $7.99 (or less) used game of your choice.

I also picked up a native DC keyboard that looks brand new for $7.99.

[Grasshopper]

Thanks for the link. $30 is pretty cheap. However, by the time I've factored in the cost of having it shipped across the Atlantic it will probably be cheaper for me to buy one locally.

With regards to using a PC keyboard/Ipac/Keywiz with the Dreamcast, I've seen a number of convertors on Lik-Sang's site. Here's a link to one of them:

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=29&products_id=517&

Could one of these do the trick, or will it only work with games specifically designed to be used with the Dreamcast keyboard.

Sorry, there aren't any DC games specifically designed to be used with the keyboard (outside Typing of the Dead, and something like Phantasy Star Online...and these are for typing, not game movements and funtions).

I've just been looking at the Dreamcast section of the BYOAC site (http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_dreamcast.shtml). Apparently there is an adaptor available called "Total Control 2" which enables you to use a PC keyboard in place of a Dreamcast controller! So basically with this adaptor the PC keyboard can be used for all standard Dreamcast games and not just the few that use the Dreamcast keyboard. Unfortunately it appears that the keyboard can only be used for one player's controls however this is better than nothing, and certainly better than messing around with molex connectors, diodes etc. Another bonus for me is that the adaptor also enables the superior (IMHO) Playstation pads to be used with the Dreamcast, and I've got a couple of those lying around.

I'm wondering whether anyone has had any experience with one of these adaptors and whether there are better alternatives available.

They are listed on Lik-Sang's site:

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=29&products_id=149&

Thanks in advance

p.s. I've now bought a Dreamcast!

[Dave_K.]

I've just been looking at the Dreamcast section of the BYOAC site (http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade_dreamcast.shtml). Apparently there is an adaptor available called "Total Control 2" which enables you to use a PC keyboard in place of a Dreamcast controller! So basically with this adaptor the PC keyboard can be used for all standard Dreamcast games and not just the few that use the Dreamcast keyboard. Unfortunately it appears that the keyboard can only be used for one player's controls however this is better than nothing, and certainly better than messing around with molex connectors, diodes etc. Another bonus for me is that the adaptor also enables the superior (IMHO)

I'm not sure how else to phrase this but, nope, nada, noway, negative, it ain't going to work.  That page you referenced is a 3 year old dreamcast page with (obviously) some bad info.  I wrote the console faq to replace that page.  In fact, I don't even think that page ever saw the light of day until it got linked inside the the new FAQ (and its just there for historical reference only).

But if you'd like to waste your time and money seeing for yourself, go right ahead.

[Spaced Invader]

That thing only lets you use a PC keyboard in place of your dreamcast keyboard...like Dave said--bad info.

[Grasshopper]

Well I'm also a bit sceptical. However, what gives me some hope that this convertor may work in the way that I want is one of the pictures on Lik-Sang's website (attached).

The convertor has 4 modes. If you look at the picture, for one of the modes there is a digram saying Keyboard = Controller. This implies that the keyboard can be used in place of the Dreamcast's controller when the convertor is in that mode.

One of the FAQs says the keyboard can be used at the same time as the controller in that mode. But that doesn't make any sense because the keyboard only mode would then be redundant. So why not just have 3 modes?

Anyway, I might buy one just because the ability to use a Playstation controller would be useful to me. It's cheap enough. If it turns out that I can also use a PC keyboard then that would be a bonus.

[Sephroth57]

go for it man, make sure to let us know how it works. im interested =)



edit** i just found this on ebay, does anyone know if something like this is being sold cheaper somewhere? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3257901701&category=3945

and im assuming the jamma plug goes onto the board,and then the controllers plug right into DC? if thats all you have to do thats awesome

[Lilwolf]

I've seen them sell for a LOT more on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3265147768&category=13718

You take that and add a 25 buck dreamcast from any store and sell it with a single game or two and they go for a few hundred (or did).

But note:

Its not to hard to reproduce it though... but for 50 (if you can get it for that) it will be a nice clean solution...  But you DO get the ability to use arcade light guns... and that can be worth it!

[Dave_K.]

Actually it went for 50 GBP (which is $90 USD).  I've seen them go in the past around for around $100.   The $300 one on ebay was just seriously overbid by newbies.  If they only knew how easy it was to hookup a dreamcast to a cab by yourself, they would probably never pay that much.  Also on the lightguns, I'd rather stick to the $10 DC guns than pay $220 for a single timecrisis gun from happs...but just my opinion :-).

[BombProofPlane]

thats not a timecrisis gun

A time crisis gun looks and wieghs like a gun thats just the crappy happs gun you seen on atari and midway games.,