ume.ini setting "monitor custom" not working

[kendjet]

Hi all,



I'm trying to set the arcade_osd settings in ume.ini but for some reason it's not working.  When I leave the monitor as "generic_15", I can see groovyUME picking the right resolution but I cannot see a part of the bottom of the screen (I cannot fix this using the TV's v amp setting)

When I copy-paste the arcade_osd values into mame.ini, and I start groovyUME, I can see in the game information screen that the switchres line is not there and the games show tearing.


So my vmmaker.ini looks like this:
MonitorType =             "CUSTOM"
crt_range0                15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448


And this is what I'm trying to set in ume.ini:
monitor                   custom
monitor_specs0            15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448


The TV is a Loewe Contur 2070



Did I forget something?

Thanks in advance!

[Calamity]

GroovyMAME/UME and VMMaker use different formats for custom timing lines, read this: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.0.html

[kendjet]

Thanks for the fast reply!

OK so I tried this in ume.ini and now I can see the switchres screen again under "game information", although the bottom is still chopped :-(
monitor                   custom
crt_range0                15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576


I also tried setting the monitor to

GENERIC_15: screen is chopped off at the bottom, game runs at 100%                           
ARCADE_15: screen is chopped off at the bottom, game runs at 100%                             
ARCADE_15EX: screen is chopped off at the bottom, game runs at 100%
PAL: I can see the full screen, the game only runs at 83% and the sound stutters     
NTSC: screen is very dark


Also, should I start by using Arcade_OSD and then copy settings into both vmmaker.ini and ume.ini or should I copy-paste the settings from GENERIC_15 in the link you provided and copy those to vmmaker.ini?

When should I run vmmaker and restart the pc? Every time I make a change in vmmaker.ini?

I've been reading http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=116669.0 because the bottom of the screen is chopped off on the Loewe I have.

I tried adjusting the v back porch in arcade_osd but I could not get the entire grid on the screen, both the top and the bottom were not visible (I have black borders on the top and the bottom btw)... I am able to see the entire screen when I set the monitor to "PAL" in mame.ini. Maybe I should copy the VFP, VSP and VBP settings from the PAL settings into vmmaker.ini?

[Calamity]

Hi kendjet,

You only need to run vmmaker once to create the resolutions. After that you can apply the new timings into mame.ini and they automatically take effect as you load games.

The process is to get the timings from ArcadeOSD and put them in mame.ini, in the corresponding crt_range line.

Don't expect miracles with the vertical size, apart of what you get from your TV's service menu. You're limited by the total number of lines your TV is designed to show in NTSC. When using the PAL preset, your TV triggers its PAL mode which allows more lines (it internally changes V-AMP), that's all. These TVs have 2 modes, PAL & NTSC. Most arcade games are detected as NTSC signals (wrongly) so the TV configures itself for 240 lines, and you'll miss the top & bottom. What you should be able to achieve is to center the picture vertically, by modifying the relative sizes VFP & VBP, so the picture will be cropped equally at the top and bottom. Do not copy the values from PAL, that won't work. Enter ArcadeOSD and center a 60 Hz game, then use those values as a base for the crt_range line. If you get somewhat random results regarding vertical centering, you'll need to manually center each mode by using custom modelines in ini files (a lot of work, but still possible with GroovyMAME versions based on Switchres 0.015).

[kendjet]

Hi Calamity,

Thanks for the fast response!

1) I am able to see the top and the bottom of the test grid when I view some higher resolutions in arcade_osd or enter settings like these for 256x256@59p:

VFP: 1.278 ms
VSP: 0.192 ms
VBP: 2.172 ms
V (Hz): 50.011Hz (I need to unlock Vfreq for this)
H (kHz): 15.653kHz (I need to unlock Vfreq for this)

However, when I set the above, the left and right lines of the test grid are really nasty and curved and I can't seem to correct it using the TV's service menu. I guess this is normal and the only thing I can do, as you said, is to center 256x256@59p vertically (and have the top and bottom cropped) by adjusting the V back porch? (I'm not touching V sync pulse and setting V front porch to 1ln as you said in the other thread)

2) Is it the TV that detects the games as NTSC? This Loewe is a European one. Can I force PAL detection in a way?

3) Do all CRT TV's have this issue?

3) Why are games so so slow when I set the monitor to "PAL" in ume.ini?


Thanks again!

Kendjet

[Paradroid]

Not all TVs are this way. It's an issue with many Loewes. Try to find a Grundig. They're much better for this kind of thing.

[Calamity]

1) I am able to see the top and the bottom of the test grid when I view some higher resolutions in arcade_osd or enter settings like these for 256x256@59p:

VFP: 1.278 ms
VSP: 0.192 ms
VBP: 2.172 ms
V (Hz): 50.011Hz (I need to unlock Vfreq for this)
H (kHz): 15.653kHz (I need to unlock Vfreq for this)

Basically by changing those values you're converting the original 60 Hz mode into a PAL mode (50 Hz). That's why you're forcing your TV to switch to PAL mode, so more lines fit the screen.

2) Is it the TV that detects the games as NTSC? This Loewe is a European one. Can I force PAL detection in a way?

The TV assumes anything close to 60 Hz is NTSC (it doesn't know about arcade games and their custom refresh rates). Anything near 50 Hz will be detected as PAL.

3) Why are games so so slow when I set the monitor to "PAL" in ume.ini?

Because PAL is 50 Hz. And 50/60 = 0.83, so you're running your games at 83% of their original refresh (assuming this was 60 Hz). That's why forcing PAL is not a good idea in practical cases, even if it allows more lines to be visible.

[kendjet]

Not all TVs are this way. It's an issue with many Loewes. Try to find a Grundig. They're much better for this kind of thing.

Ok so I bought a Grundig today for 20 euros (a ST 70-602 NIC/TOP)... The image quality is MUCH worse compared to the Loewe Contur 2070... :-( I didn't expect the difference to be so big, gonna put it up for sale again... Grundigs were not so popular where I live, so a bit harder to find, I might wanna try a Philips instead I guess... Right now my favorites are: for horizontal games: Loewe Contur 2070 (E3001 chassis). For vertical games (TATE): Sony KV-X2131D (AE-1B chassis), excellent to rotate on its side, although I might like a bigger screen...

Thanks!

[kendjet]

1) I am able to see the top and the bottom of the test grid when I view some higher resolutions in arcade_osd or enter settings like these for 256x256@59p:

VFP: 1.278 ms
VSP: 0.192 ms
VBP: 2.172 ms
V (Hz): 50.011Hz (I need to unlock Vfreq for this)
H (kHz): 15.653kHz (I need to unlock Vfreq for this)

Basically by changing those values you're converting the original 60 Hz mode into a PAL mode (50 Hz). That's why you're forcing your TV to switch to PAL mode, so more lines fit the screen.

2) Is it the TV that detects the games as NTSC? This Loewe is a European one. Can I force PAL detection in a way?

The TV assumes anything close to 60 Hz is NTSC (it doesn't know about arcade games and their custom refresh rates). Anything near 50 Hz will be detected as PAL.

3) Why are games so so slow when I set the monitor to "PAL" in ume.ini?

Because PAL is 50 Hz. And 50/60 = 0.83, so you're running your games at 83% of their original refresh (assuming this was 60 Hz). That's why forcing PAL is not a good idea in practical cases, even if it allows more lines to be visible.

Awesome answers! :-) I will make a donation next week :-)