wifi video streaming

[SavannahLion]

My wife is asking me to install, what is basically, a media center in our camper trailer and van. In the house I just use a PC hardwire onto my LAN and direct connected to the big screen for video storage and playback.

However, the camper needs to be WiFi because of the tablets and well... it's a camper. She is sick and tired of DVDs and frankly, so am I.

I was thinking of getting a WiFi router, installing OpenWRT, tossing in a solid state? HDD, convert the movies from whatever format to 720p or less (for the rooted Kindles running a mix of stock Kindle OS and CyanogenMod) and moving my wifes collection of music to keep her and the 13yr old happy. All tied together with.... what?

If I figure five tablets all playing different movies (worst case scenario) or two playing movies, two playing music (more likely) what compact computer can keep up? I would be saturating the WiFi if I figure half of the estimated bit rate just by streaming two movies. N is supposed to be faster, I can get what? Another movie stream or two out of that? And that's just be very optimistic.

Any hardware ideas?

Compact is the goal here.

[Howard_Casto]

Well let me ask you this... what video format are we talking about here?  Also do you mean to stream movies from a centralized computer (I'm guessing so by your wording). 

Long story short, so long as you use "N" you should be good to go.  The major throttle with streaming video is the speed of your internet connection, NOT your LAN... so if you are streaming from computer to computer you should be ok. 

[SavannahLion]

Well let me ask you this... what video format are we talking about here?  Also do you mean to stream movies from a centralized computer (I'm guessing so by your wording). 

Long story short, so long as you use "N" you should be good to go.  The major throttle with streaming video is the speed of your internet connection, NOT your LAN... so if you are streaming from computer to computer you should be ok.

No this setup won't have access to the outside world unless it's "home". Even then there wouldn't be amy point, this isn't meant as a replacement to the home network anyways.

That's a good question about the media format. The music will obviously be mp3. No sense in changing it. But I forgot what the Tablets/Kindles support. I did my guesstimates based on an unpacked video stream, like from a DVD (I'm not 100% sure I'm right e en then) or m2ts. A packed video file like MKV would be much smaller... I wonder if the onboard controller on some of those newer routers are beefy enough to do multiple video streams? Can't see why not, how much additional overhead can disk access be?

[SgtSlaughter]

I'd stick with a wireless N as well.  The AC standard requires 5Ghz and not all devices support that (not to mention you'll get less range).  I personally got an Asus RT-N66U and love it, its got both 5ghz and 2.4Ghz so you're covered either way.  It got some excellent reviews when I bought it a year or so ago.  You can install 3rd party firmware on it as well.

In terms of how many devices... can't tell you, I've at most had a 1080p mkv video streamed, while my wife was watching a 480p stream on youtube and that worked, but as for 5 devices I'm not sure.

[knave]

On the cheap I would suggest just a basic N router that can accept a USB drive.

Spending a bit more, I'd get a Small NAS and plug it in to the router via Ethernet. I like the options and reliability.

In any case I would think that having a dedicated PC is overkill. (but could be a cool project or would be good use of some odd hardware you already have laying around.

I've had pretty good results playing files off of the NAS over wifi with my tablet

[Howard_Casto]

Well let me ask you this... what video format are we talking about here?  Also do you mean to stream movies from a centralized computer (I'm guessing so by your wording). 

Long story short, so long as you use "N" you should be good to go.  The major throttle with streaming video is the speed of your internet connection, NOT your LAN... so if you are streaming from computer to computer you should be ok.

No this setup won't have access to the outside world unless it's "home". Even then there wouldn't be amy point, this isn't meant as a replacement to the home network anyways.

That's a good question about the media format. The music will obviously be mp3. No sense in changing it. But I forgot what the Tablets/Kindles support. I did my guesstimates based on an unpacked video stream, like from a DVD (I'm not 100% sure I'm right e en then) or m2ts. A packed video file like MKV would be much smaller... I wonder if the onboard controller on some of those newer routers are beefy enough to do multiple video streams? Can't see why not, how much additional overhead can disk access be?

Most tablets and the internet at large use some form of mp4 format.  It isn't my favorite format, but it's specifically designed for low bandwidth situations.  I believe underneath all the flash youtube videos are mp4 format.  Disc access is probably the only overhead you'll have to worry about actually... think of how slow your computer gets when a disc scan is being run.  That being said disc access is going to be minimal.  DVDs are mpeg2 that should be fine as-is... it's a tiny format.  Mp3s are pathetically small, we are talking kilobits per second, not megabits.  According to Blu-rays website the native video format streams data at 54 Mbit/sec.  Your typical wireless N router is rated for around 300 Mbit/sec but with degradation will probably be more like  200-250 Mbit/sec. So worst case scenario you could stream only 4 raw dumped Blu-ray discs at once instead of 5?  Of course this is assuming you don't do any compression, which you might have to do regardless... some tablets simply can't handle uncompressed 1080p video. 

Like I said, more than enough bandwidth. 

A pc isn't really a deciding factor, you don't necessarily need one, but I will warn you that if you are going the router with a harddrive plugged in route, make sure the router has a decent processor and some decent memory to actually serve all of that data without issues.  Aka don't buy a 10 dollar piece of crap... spend some actual money on it. 

[SavannahLion]

You're more optimistic than I am. I fully cut the wifi bandwidth down by half and used full bluray (in error) 720p bitrates. None of the tablets I own are capable of 1080, all but one are rooted Kindles 7" HD 2013 editions capable (according to Amazon specs) of 720p playback. By the time I upgrade those tablets, my requirements will have changed of course.

Been looking over the OpenWRT hardware list and it makes my poor WRT54G look a geriatric dinosaur. of course, I still have my antique Barricuda

[Ond]

I use two N routers at home and stream MP4s to VLC all the time.  Wireless N can degrade up to 50% especially at the fringes of the link i.e. down the far end of our place, But 720 MP4s are no problem at all.  Occasionally I also stream DVD format but this is more cumbersome.  I use the Cisco based linksys routers, they seem a bit more sturdy than others, I have had Netgear and Dlink fail after a 12 months or so.

[SavannahLion]

I use two N routers at home and stream MP4s to VLC all the time.  Wireless N can degrade up to 50% especially at the fringes of the link i.e. down the far end of our place, But 720 MP4s are no problem at all.  Occasionally I also stream DVD format but this is more cumbersome.  I use the Cisco based linksys routers, they seem a bit more sturdy than others, I have had Netgear and Dlink fail after a 12 months or so.

Yeah. I'm a bit surprised at all the negative reviews on the D-Link hardware. But I don't recall ever buying wireless D-Link hardware. I think I might have a bunch of the really old serial port ethernet cards or they might be 3Coms. Not sure.

I'm not stressed about the fringe problem. This is intended to go into the car while driving or into the camper while "camping". My wife is terrified of the woods to go any distance from me and I'm too lazy to move far from my campfire even if a bear decides to investigate our camp.

[ark_ader]

Use 802.11A

Should cut down the interference and while you are at it, encode everything at 720p or less.

[Howard_Casto]

You're more optimistic than I am. I fully cut the wifi bandwidth down by half and used full bluray (in error) 720p bitrates. None of the tablets I own are capable of 1080, all but one are rooted Kindles 7" HD 2013 editions capable (according to Amazon specs) of 720p playback. By the time I upgrade those tablets, my requirements will have changed of course.

Been looking over the OpenWRT hardware list and it makes my poor WRT54G look a geriatric dinosaur. of course, I still have my antique Barricuda

Well I was assuming some things so your mileage may vary. 

Wifi interference is typically caused by physical obstacles and other signals in the same range mucking up the data transfer.  These are your two main reasons for signal degradation.   Assuming you are in the woods and parked at some sort of clearing neither of these things would be an issue.  I guess what I'm trying to say is the main thing that makes your wifi slow are the walls in your home/ nearby houses and other people's wifi.  You shouldn't have either of those problems. 

[kahlid74]

Late to the party, so what has been said before is a good starting point for venturing forth.  The more devices you have connected the more contention will occur.  Theoretical rates should always be taken with a grain of salt, which has been done here.  I've deployed about 800 AP's in my time as a Net engy to date (B, G, N and now AC) and I'm still no expert, but do remember the technology connecting.  I found far more issues with access devices than AP's.  Make sure to research into after-market antennas.  They can make a world of difference depending on the AP.

[knave]

Whatever router you choose, Choosing one that can run DD-wrt or another flavor of aftermarket firmware gives you options. Myself...I like the Linksys routers. I've installed a few cheapo's in the past and their failure rates are higher and they can be more quirky.

Side note: Did you guys know that Belkin bought Linksys from Cisco? I just read that in an article yesterday...They are releasing a new router with the look of an Wrt54 but entirely open. They have piqued my interest...though the price is more than I want to pay. Link to article.




Linksys WRT1900AC

[SavannahLion]

Just a small update.

I'm a little pissed at this point at this project.

First thing I did was set up a HDD with some sample movies with a few different codec options. If I copy these files direct to either the Kindle OS or Android I find there's some finicky issues. Some tweaking in the settings and I eventually find a happy compromise where either variant can lay the video without complaint. This is where I find differences between video players despite the claim they all use standard codec. Oi. 

So I focus on the stock TP-Link firmware TL-WDR4300 v1.7 Here I can create servers such as SMB or something that Windows Media Player actually likes. Using the Win8 laptop (which, for some damn reason, is now "blind" to 802.11n, another ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- altogether ) via ethernet, I can connect to either the SMB or media and play movies just fine with WMP (except WMP thinks all my files are music files. I see hints it's how I organize the folders so it's low on the priority list). VLC, however, now has a bug which prevents it from seeing media servers ,apparently as of 2.1.1? I discovered this last week so I had to think up a slew of new curse words. If anyone has ever had sex with a camel, I apologize to the camel's mother. 

The tablets, using ES File Explorer, can connect to, read directories and download files on the SMB share but is completely blind to the media server. For some unfathomable reason, every single damn so-called "media streaming player" I can find on Google Play requires its on specific media streaming server on a PC. Seriously? WTF is there nothing standard out there??

I'm really hesitant to go out and install DD-WRT or OpenWRT or whatever because if I can't get a grip on the default software and have a working system in place (so I can swap out each component in turn for better or more capable software) there's no way I can get such a system running from the ground up without jumping in front of a moving truck.

This isn't one of those projects where I wasn't just procrastinating (like Starfish), it's one of those projects where I bang my head against the problem from 9 PM to about 1 or 2 AM. Then my body gives out and I become non-functioning and sick for two or three days, only to repeat the whole damn process all over again. This happens because, unlike my other projects, it was prompted by my wife and she expects results. 

Then today I had a sort of epiphany. All of my searches were something like "Streaming Media Player" or similar. 99% of the results were either "custom" streaming players or media servers. The small 1% I could find sucked or just didn't work with my set up. So I popped in "uPnP Client". Client being the only word I didn't think of searching for. Boom! First hit back was "Slick uPnP", an application I haven't seen before.

I shoud mention that at this point in the project, I was about to start doing some drastic ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and already started researching the specific media streaming packages available for DD-WRT and OpenWRT. This was going to add an entirely different element where I was going to have to go through the entire process of getting the router converted, working, hardened, and running before I would even think about looking at the media server. Given my work habits and schedule, I was looking as no less than two more months. Uggh...

So I installed Slick uPnP on Android #1 and....WOAH! There's the server? Is it the SMBA server? Nope, it's the media server! Bitchin!!! So I get a media file up and running and start work on Kindle #1. Boom! It works! Now onto Android #2...Uh Oh... Looks like there's a technical glitch. While the router is streaming two video streams, it's unable to send out its directory tree to #3. ---fudgesicle---..... At least it's a step forward. I certainly hope I can overcome this detail without killing myself.

[RayB]

I believe underneath all the flash youtube videos are mp4 format.

h.264 codec to be uber-exact.

[SavannahLion]

Yesterday, I managed to get five Android devices streaming from the router.

Today, the router is refusing to "appear" on the network sometimes. I worked out the exact circumstances.

As long as none of the devices are streaming any video, the router will appear on all clients. All directories can be browsed.

As soon as one of the clients starts streaming video, then no updates are sent to any of the other clients. In other words if we have a directory structure of Server\Main\Videos\ then if any client finds themselves in Videos before the first client starts streaming then all of the clients can start streaming. However, if any of the clients find themselves in any other directory other than video, then that client will be unable to navigate to the Videos folder in order to start streaming. There won't be any listing at all or an error in the client will appear but in both cases, the server disappears.

As soon as the first client quits streaming, not just pause or stop the video, but actually quits out of the video application then all clients will suddenly see the server and be able to browse again.

I'm wondering if this is a deficiency in the stock firmware and wondering if any of the 3rd party firmware solutions exhibit the same behavior or is it a problem with the hardware?