Please Take the Time to Write an Hour of code.

[Howard_Casto]

I normally don't post political stuff but this goes beyond politics.  You are all smart people, you should know how to do some basic programming by now.  If you want your kids to have more opportunities, they should know as well.  Please take advantage of the "Hour of Code"! 



http://csedweek.org/

[lordnacho]

As I'm surrounded by H-1B's, I can only hope this works 

[pbj]

As I'm surrounded by H-1B's, I can only hope this works

Companies love H-1B's.  They can pay them peanuts, work them like slaves, and deport them if they complain.  Don't believe what you've heard about talent shortages in the US.

[lordnacho]

Companies love H-1B's.  They can pay them peanuts, work them like slaves, and deport them if they complain.  Don't believe what you've heard about talent shortages in the US.

The conspiracy theory I heard about the hour of code was just this.  Backed by corporations emphasizing non-existent talent shortage.
My company doesn't look for local talent, cubicles just fill up magically with accents and smelly lunches.

Any devs out there having trouble finding jobs?

[ChadTower]

We frequently have trouble finding anyone local to interview for tech positions.  Spots get posted on Monster, sent out through headhunters, we even have people personally networking.  Positions can take months to fill and the only resumes we see are total garbage.  Keep in mind this is a company inside the top 15 on the Fortune 500.  We end up forced to bring in people from overseas because we can't wait 9 months for someone decent to come along.

There may not be a talent shortage but there is a shortage of talent looking for work in this area.

[bleargh]

The conspiracy theory I heard about the hour of code was just this.  Backed by corporations emphasizing non-existent talent shortage.  My company doesn't look for local talent, cubicles just fill up magically with accents and smelly lunches.

Any devs out there having trouble finding jobs?

Constantly.

Got close to 30yrs experience as a dev, and have a weekly regiment of learning new things so that I'm staying on top of whats new and keeping up w/new tech.

But, for the last two years have had the most frustrating time trying to find new work (or something to at least replace the full-time contract I do have).

Businesses keep telling me I'm exactly what they're looking for, but then balk when they find out I can't be had for the same measly price as an offshore worker (which barely amounts to minimum wage here).  Highest wage I think I've seen offered for "Senior Developer" and "Team Lead" positions the last year isn't even half of what I'm making now (and even where I'm working now is a 40% cut from where I was a few years ago before the economy tanked).

There is a LOT of local talent out there, companies just aren't willing to pay people standard wages for it.  $40-50k for "senior" and "lead" positions just doesn't cut it.

[Slippyblade]

Part of the problem of the "talent shortage" is that companies are wanting a laundry list of experience and skills and are then wanting to pay peanuts for said experience and skills.  It's not uncommon in my area to see ads wanting 5-10yrs field experience, mutliple certs, and a degree for a part-time, no benefits, $9/hr position.  That's the kind of ad that gets placed purely so HR can say, "We place ads, but there's no applicants!" so they have an excuse to outsource or bring in work visas.

[ark_ader]

Well Howard, as it is Grace Hopper's 107 birthday today.  I shall write an hour of code in honour of this great lady and pioneer of computing, who's accomplishments in co-authoring programming language COBOL, provided my first programming job as a COBOL migration technician.

RIP Grace, and thank you for all your accomplishments in the the field of computing.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper

[pbj]

That's the kind of ad that gets placed purely so HR can say, "We place ads, but there's no applicants!" so they have an excuse to outsource or bring in work visas.

Also a way for them to do salary research.  I had a job that pulled that BS - listings perpetually open for jobs that didn't exist.  Just so they could resume fish and tell people, "we're paying competitively."  After a non-stop exodus of employees they did finally give us all a "cost of living" increase.  I still cited salary as the primary reason I left.   

[Malenko]

I used to do IT for a company that did job placement. They would routinely apply the H1Bs over others because they make more on a placement when they pay the worker less.  One of the reasons I left. They'd lie and say they would find the best person for the job when all they did is find the most profit for the job. Their rep is starting to catch up with them though. Pretty sure Id be unemployed soon if I still worked there, lol

[ed12]

and then they  scream buldy blue muder they cant find coder's...
gee i wonder why.huh?
i am teaching my self rasberry..using chopped linux..
it equates to time and money..why should i give it away for 12.00 phr ?
explain that 1 to me bean-counters

ed

[lordnacho]

Constantly.

Got close to 30yrs experience as a dev, and have a weekly regiment of learning new things so that I'm staying on top of whats new and keeping up w/new tech.

But, for the last two years have had the most frustrating time trying to find new work (or something to at least replace the full-time contract I do have).

Businesses keep telling me I'm exactly what they're looking for, but then balk when they find out I can't be had for the same measly price as an offshore worker (which barely amounts to minimum wage here).  Highest wage I think I've seen offered for "Senior Developer" and "Team Lead" positions the last year isn't even half of what I'm making now (and even where I'm working now is a 40% cut from where I was a few years ago before the economy tanked).

There is a LOT of local talent out there, companies just aren't willing to pay people standard wages for it.  $40-50k for "senior" and "lead" positions just doesn't cut it.

30 years, reminded me of this article
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/team-building-and-staffing/are-you-too-old-for-it/d/d-id/1006268?print=yes

Which got me worrying about if I should stay coding.  Have about 14 years now, pay has definitely leveled off.  I have to constantly keep up with tech too, inventing side projects just to tinker and put on the resume/portfolio in case I get canned from here. 

Part of the problem of the "talent shortage" is that companies are wanting a laundry list of experience and skills and are then wanting to pay peanuts for said experience and skills.  It's not uncommon in my area to see ads wanting 5-10yrs field experience, mutliple certs, and a degree for a part-time, no benefits, $9/hr position.  That's the kind of ad that gets placed purely so HR can say, "We place ads, but there's no applicants!" so they have an excuse to outsource or bring in work visas.

I can't stand the laundry lists.  If I listed all the languages asked on some posts, I'd look like a complete liar.  it's refreshing to see some posts say experience in one of these languages and who are open to learn their stack. 

[ark_ader]

Constantly.

Got close to 30yrs experience as a dev, and have a weekly regiment of learning new things so that I'm staying on top of whats new and keeping up w/new tech.

But, for the last two years have had the most frustrating time trying to find new work (or something to at least replace the full-time contract I do have).

Businesses keep telling me I'm exactly what they're looking for, but then balk when they find out I can't be had for the same measly price as an offshore worker (which barely amounts to minimum wage here).  Highest wage I think I've seen offered for "Senior Developer" and "Team Lead" positions the last year isn't even half of what I'm making now (and even where I'm working now is a 40% cut from where I was a few years ago before the economy tanked).

There is a LOT of local talent out there, companies just aren't willing to pay people standard wages for it.  $40-50k for "senior" and "lead" positions just doesn't cut it.

30 years, reminded me of this article
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/team-building-and-staffing/are-you-too-old-for-it/d/d-id/1006268?print=yes

Which got me worrying about if I should stay coding.  Have about 14 years now, pay has definitely leveled off.  I have to constantly keep up with tech too, inventing side projects just to tinker and put on the resume/portfolio in case I get canned from here. 

Part of the problem of the "talent shortage" is that companies are wanting a laundry list of experience and skills and are then wanting to pay peanuts for said experience and skills.  It's not uncommon in my area to see ads wanting 5-10yrs field experience, mutliple certs, and a degree for a part-time, no benefits, $9/hr position.  That's the kind of ad that gets placed purely so HR can say, "We place ads, but there's no applicants!" so they have an excuse to outsource or bring in work visas.

I can't stand the laundry lists.  If I listed all the languages asked on some posts, I'd look like a complete liar.  it's refreshing to see some posts say experience in one of these languages and who are open to learn their stack.

The problem is most of us are getting older.  We have the experience, and the technical knowledge, but we are nearing our expiry date.  We can think that we have upwards of 25 years of future service (maybe more if you factor in the ever moving retirement age) but our skills are being replaced with dumbing down management practices.  I can only think of three possibilities:

1) Teaching - If you have a degree you can get on the ladder but grade schooling is rough and has many disadvantages.

2) Self Employment - Contracting and establishing a consultancy - but you better like getting more certifications and their associated cost.

3) Retraining - Using your skill set and branching in another direction, such as management, research, education (getting a PHd) or government positions.

I'm focused on the PHd and looking forward to working in academia.  If you can afford starting out on your own and setting up a shop is the better bet.  I see the re-emergence of mom and pop stores due to the poor customer service you get with large corporations.  The same goes with small software houses and tech shops.  I prefer to buy from them as they speak my language, and not like at Best Buy, who memorise scripts and/or have no clue with that vacant expression when you say something vaguely technical. 

I think we are living in a specialised world where specialists get the more money.  Figure out what you can do the best and capitalise on it.

[bleargh]

30 years, reminded me of this article
http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/team-building-and-staffing/are-you-too-old-for-it/d/d-id/1006268?print=yes

Which got me worrying about if I should stay coding.  Have about 14 years now, pay has definitely leveled off.  I have to constantly keep up with tech too, inventing side projects just to tinker and put on the resume/portfolio in case I get canned from here.

While I can't say that I've been discriminated because of my age (like crap, I'm only in my early 40s, I'm not that old), I think its more that employers are wanting to have their cake and eat it too.  They want someone with all the experience that only a few trips around the block can give you, but they only want to pay a starter/junior salary for it.

Like come on... how many job postings have we all seen where they're asking for years and years of experience, but are only willing to pay ~$30k salary for it.  I see those everywhere, so much so that its not the exception but the norm.

I've been a "career contractor" for over 20yrs, and while I've kept the business in the black, the last four or five years have been pretty tough.  I just see companies wanting more, but being willing to pay less for it than they did last year and the year before.  And not just "a little less", but "substantially less".

When the economy dropped out a few years back, the market was flooded with people desperate for any job they could get, and employers took advantage of that and hired them up at 25c on the dollar.  I knew several people that were making $100k+ before the bottom fell out, then got hired back into the same job but at ~$30-35k because the company could get away with it.  After a few years of hiring like that, they now appear to have settled into that now being the standard salary for those positions.  Couple that with kids rolling out of college and that are willing to take on a 60-80hr work week for low wages, and it makes me wonder some days why I even bother any more.  I can out-produce those college kids and their 80hr work weeks in my regular 30-35hr work week, but employers don't see that; they don't measure productivity in "getting ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- done", but by how far you're willing to bend over.

There's a lot of good coders out there in the US+Canada, but finding employers who are willing to treat their people with respect and pay them well for the experience and skill they bring to the table is a hard find nowadays.   

[pbj]

I would stay far, far away from academia unless you're studying something with a highly marketable reach.  We're in the worst funding environment in modern history and colleges are going to violently implode in the near future. 

[shponglefan]

Learning to write code is an admirable thing.  But getting a degree in programming and then watching the tech industry implode was a sobering experience.

[RayB]

I keep hearing "they don't teach programming in university comp sci anymore". True? All I know is that C++ coders are rare and come at a premium up here. Too many kids in the last decade graduating with only javascript and Flash Actionscript under their belts.

[ed12]

where this is true >no c++ teaching<
it is hard coded in now as shells
so simple we open a scrpit like winexplorer >just as it sounds<
load a :vb: file and edit away,u can then just cross compile :this takes learning:,
u have to rember to syntiax ie '/:/}/{/[/]...
this is called work..what do u expect from 2013 ?

ed

[Slippyblade]

Drives me nuts that Java is the intro language in the CS programs at my local Uni.  Never understood teaching Java as an intro language...

"Here's a simple 'Hello World' program.  Ignore almost every line that you see since none of it will make sense till half-way through the semester."

[ed12]

yes Slippyblade
which in its self lends its self to a full line of crap
u see what mfg's are missing here is the smarts to stop thinking about there dam budget $$$ and think. i need brain power here
they have themselfs become yes ppl to the boss

ed

[ark_ader]

Drives me nuts that Java is the intro language in the CS programs at my local Uni.  Never understood teaching Java as an intro language...

"Here's a simple 'Hello World' program.  Ignore almost every line that you see since none of it will make sense till half-way through the semester."

Java and C# mostly as it is the language in demand.  More so than Visual Basic for Applications.  I can get more ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- done in C# than C++ and Vanilla C (more so when working with C++) where Java was THE language to learn before Sun went down hill.  Most object oriented languages are taught today than elemental languages.  If you could get VB under your belt then you could get a good job writing applications for custom office facilities. 

Teachers like Java or C# as they are easy to present to students.  Try throwing a curve ball like asking them to explain how pointers work - and watch them squirm. Or give them some Math problems and watch their heads fall off.   

Now that is not enough for employers.  You need to have the full suite for web programming, C# and Java, Powershell (easy), MS SQL etc.  Though you learn it and then forget it when away from the environment, but employers want you to be Websters.  You are not supposed to remember everything, just to know where to look for it when the need arises.  That is why I'm going for my doctorate. 

Hopefully this madness will stop and by the time I graduate, I will end up on top.  BTW US colleges are a waste of time.  Better to go to a UK college or University and get a better education on line.   They are cheaper too.   

[ed12]

where i am a fan of java code
i like vb better for the simple reason i can and do cross-compile
like this is not a hard line to enter 'ed
that will get remed in vb
and get skiped over if u cross compile
where in java it is a not a cmd >'< and will error every time

ed

[ChadTower]

That's the problem right there.  There is a glaring fundamental difference between learning languages and learning programming.  Each type of algorithm is best taught in a specific language.  We studied recursion in LISP.  We studied pointers in assembly.  We studied procedural structure in C and object orientation in C++.  You can't use the same language to truly teach all of those concepts.  Each language does some things well and some things poorly for a reason. 

A good coder can pick up any language within a few weeks because they know how to code.  Someone who was taught Java is rarely going to be capable of doing anything other than Java without starting over.

[stu33]

That's the problem right there.  There is a glaring fundamental difference between learning languages and learning programming.  Each type of algorithm is best taught in a specific language.  We studied recursion in LISP.  We studied pointers in assembly.  We studied procedural structure in C and object orientation in C++.  You can't use the same language to truly teach all of those concepts.  Each language does some things well and some things poorly for a reason. 

A good coder can pick up any language within a few weeks because they know how to code.  Someone who was taught Java is rarely going to be capable of doing anything other than Java without starting over.

I agree completely.  I learned PASCAL first, which was basically the mother-hen of all languages.  You couldn't do anything stupid without the compiler saying "Hey dummy, you can't do that".  It really was a great way to learn.  Then C and finally C++.  Most of my development where I work now is C++, with bits of Java here and there.  Having never seen Java, I was still able to learn it in no time.  I credit learning PASCAL first for that.

[bleargh]

That's the problem right there.  There is a glaring fundamental difference between learning languages and learning programming.  (..... snip .....)

A good coder can pick up any language within a few weeks because they know how to code.  Someone who was taught Java is rarely going to be capable of doing anything other than Java without starting over.

ChadTower++

Couldn't have said that better myself.

Running gag here is that I've used (and forgotten) more programming languages than I've got fingers and toes.  While I've been using Perl for much of my work over the last 15yrs, I've learned and used over 30+ different languages on projects over the years.

Back in the 70s when I started to code nobody taught Comp Si, but when I finally got to college (mid 90s) I was pleased to see that each class introduced us to a new language, that specialized in whatever the topic was we were learning; Modula for style, Assembly for pointers, C++ for object orientation, etc.  I'd already used several variations of Basic, written Assembly for four different processors, and was using C/C++ and Rexx regularly, so "learning a new language" wasn't that alien a concept for me (unlike some of the class, who thought we should just use one language and stick with it for the 3yrs we were there)

Compare that to when my younger brother went to University (post-millenium), and he was taught "Microsoft Visual Studio".  Didn't teach the language, taught the tool.  And while he excelled in class, the minute you put him outside of that tool he was useless.  Completely useless.  As in... couldn't even code in the same damned language, but with a different compiler suite.

Personally, I think that Comp Sci courses should go back to teaching programming on Unix/Linux boxes, with a whole suite of compiler tools and languages at their disposal.  Let those students see that there's choice out there, and that any given tool is not always the right tool for the job.  Each language has their own specialties and things that they're awesome at, and a good programmer will know that and will build their larger projects using multiple languages/tools.

[pbj]

Here we go again... programmers trading war stories about all their coding victories.

 

It was hell there in Pascal until Borland unleashed Turbo on us.

[lordnacho]

Turbo tastic

[ark_ader]

I would teach kids C# in the 6th grade and start out with game development for the PC and Xbox 360, with the kids creating a game they could publish on Xbox Live.  Make it an all year event, and start looking at project management, documentation and design, system analysis with debugging classes at the onset.  Then teach them C++ in the 7th grade with mathematics (algebra and basic linear Math) to solve problems.  In order to solve a problem the child then looks at physics, trig and graphic design.  Finding out the child's speciality early on is far better than throwing subjects like history and environmental science at them. 

Math and English is core but it is more interesting to a child when they have to compete with other kids, not to be left behind.  Khan Academy touches on this principle, and it has shown an increase of ability in each child in the class. 

I mean what child doesn't like to play computer games?

Also I think the US degree system should stop the general education modules and focus on more course specific classes. Why do you have to learn maths, English and history again when you have paid to learn a specific subject?

[danny_galaga]

10 PRINT "BITE ME!"
20 GOTO 10
RUN

There yar!

[ark_ader]

10 PRINT "BITE ME!"
20 GOTO 10
RUN

There yar!

That took you an hour? 

[SavannahLion]

10 PRINT "BITE ME!"
20 GOTO 10
RUN

There yar!

That took you an hour? 

He needed to insert a line and renumber.

[ed12]

here

'Thanks to Microsoft - MSDN Library
'
'--
'Ramesh
OPTION EXPLICIT

DIM ICSSC_DEFAULT, CONNECTION_PUBLIC, CONNECTION_PRIVATE, CONNECTION_ALL
DIM NetSharingManager
DIM PublicConnection, PrivateConnection
DIM EveryConnectionCollection

DIM objArgs
DIM con

ICSSC_DEFAULT         = 0
CONNECTION_PUBLIC     = 0
CONNECTION_PRIVATE    = 1
CONNECTION_ALL        = 2

Main( )

sub Main( )
    Set objArgs = WScript.Arguments
'    WScript.Echo( "running enable" )

    if objArgs.Count = 1 then
        con = objArgs(0)

'        WScript.Echo con

        if Initialize() = TRUE then
            GetConnectionObjects()

            FirewallTestByName(con)
        end if
    else
        DIM szMsg
        szMsg = "Invalid usage! Please provide the name of the connection as the argument." & chr(13) & chr(13) & _
                "Usage:" & chr(13) & _
                "       " + WScript.scriptname + " " + chr(34) + "Connection Name" + chr(34)
'        WScript.Echo( szMsg )
    end if

end sub


sub FirewallTestByName(conName)
on error resume next
    DIM Item
    DIM EveryConnection
    DIM objNCProps
    DIM szMsg
    DIM bFound

    bFound = false
    for each Item in EveryConnectionCollection
        set EveryConnection = NetSharingManager.INetSharingConfigurationForINetConnection(Item)
        set objNCProps = NetSharingManager.NetConnectionProps(Item)
        if (ucase(conName) = ucase(objNCProps.Name)) then
            szMsg = "Enabling Firwall on connection:" & chr(13) & _
                    "Name: "       & objNCProps.Name & chr(13) & _
                    "Guid: "       & objNCProps.Guid & chr(13) & _
                    "DeviceName: " & objNCProps.DeviceName & chr(13) & _
                    "Status: "     & objNCProps.Status & chr(13) & _
                    "MediaType: "  & objNCProps.MediaType

'            WScript.Echo(szMsg)
            bFound = true
            EveryConnection.EnableInternetFirewall
            exit for
        end if
    next

'    if( bFound = false ) then
'        WScript.Echo( "Connection " & chr(34) & conName & chr(34) & " was not found" )
'    end if

end sub

function Initialize()
    DIM bReturn
    bReturn = FALSE

    set NetSharingManager = Wscript.CreateObject("HNetCfg.HNetShare.1")
'    if (IsObject(NetSharingManager)) = FALSE then
'        Wscript.Echo("Unable to get the HNetCfg.HnetShare.1 object")
'    else
        if (IsNull(NetSharingManager.SharingInstalled) = TRUE) then
            Wscript.Echo("Sharing isn't available on this platform.")
        else
            bReturn = TRUE
        end if
'    end if
    Initialize = bReturn
end function

function GetConnectionObjects()
    DIM bReturn
    DIM Item

    bReturn = TRUE

    if GetConnection(CONNECTION_PUBLIC) = FALSE then
        bReturn = FALSE
    end if

    if GetConnection(CONNECTION_PRIVATE) = FALSE then
        bReturn = FALSE
    end if

    if GetConnection(CONNECTION_ALL) = FALSE then
        bReturn = FALSE
    end if

    GetConnectionObjects = bReturn

end function


function GetConnection(CONNECTION_TYPE)
    DIM bReturn
    DIM Connection
    DIM Item
    bReturn = TRUE

    if (CONNECTION_PUBLIC = CONNECTION_TYPE) then
        set Connection = NetSharingManager.EnumPublicConnections(ICSSC_DEFAULT)
        if (Connection.Count > 0) and (Connection.Count < 2) then
            for each Item in Connection
                set PublicConnection = NetSharingManager.INetSharingConfigurationForINetConnection(Item)
            next
        else
            bReturn = FALSE
        end if
    elseif (CONNECTION_PRIVATE = CONNECTION_TYPE) then
        set Connection = NetSharingManager.EnumPrivateConnections(ICSSC_DEFAULT)
        if (Connection.Count > 0) and (Connection.Count < 2) then
            for each Item in Connection
                set PrivateConnection = NetSharingManager.INetSharingConfigurationForINetConnection(Item)
            next
        else
            bReturn = FALSE
        end if
    elseif (CONNECTION_ALL = CONNECTION_TYPE) then
        set Connection = NetSharingManager.EnumEveryConnection
        if (Connection.Count > 0) then
            set EveryConnectionCollection = Connection
        else
            bReturn = FALSE
        end if
    else
        bReturn = FALSE
    end if

    if (TRUE = bReturn)  then

        if (Connection.Count = 0) then
'            Wscript.Echo("No " + CStr(ConvertConnectionTypeToString(CONNECTION_TYPE)) + " connections exist (Connection.Count gave us 0)")
            bReturn = FALSE
        'valid to have more than 1 connection returned from EnumEveryConnection
        elseif (Connection.Count > 1) and (CONNECTION_ALL <> CONNECTION_TYPE) then
            Wscript.Echo("ERROR: There was more than one " + ConvertConnectionTypeToString(CONNECTION_TYPE) + " connection (" + CStr(Connection.Count) + ")")
            bReturn = FALSE
        end if
    end if
'    Wscript.Echo(CStr(Connection.Count) + " objects for connection type " + ConvertConnectionTypeToString(CONNECTION_TYPE))

    GetConnection = bReturn
end function

function ConvertConnectionTypeToString(ConnectionID)
    DIM ConnectionString

    if (ConnectionID = CONNECTION_PUBLIC) then
        ConnectionString = "public"
    elseif (ConnectionID = CONNECTION_PRIVATE) then
        ConnectionString = "private"
    elseif (ConnectionID = CONNECTION_ALL) then
        ConnectionString = "all"
    else
        ConnectionString = "Unknown: " + CStr(ConnectionID)
    end if

    ConvertConnectionTypeToString = ConnectionString
end function

ed

[ed12]

that is an hours worth of code..right there
it will take u a month to fig it out...
hints here,winexplorer-set to xvb...copy paste to .txt,then rename to .xvb
from there point winexplorer to it
from there open the scroll boxs u will see it in tools
turn on  gutter lines..
compile away once u are happy

ed

[danny_galaga]

10 PRINT "BITE ME!"
20 GOTO 10
RUN

There yar!

That took you an hour? 

Well, 58 minutes, but I rounded up 

[degenatrons]

Here's a simple Python program to calculate the value of pi.  Increase the number of cycles to increase the accuracy of the result. 
I based this on the Leibniz formula/infinite series.

cycles = 3000000
pi_val = 0.00

for i in range(1, cycles):
    if i % 2 == 1:
        pi_val += 4.0 / (i * 2 - 1)
    else:
        pi_val -= 4.0 / (i * 2 - 1)
print pi_val

It takes ~3,000,000 cycles to get to an accuracy of 6 decimal places i.e. 3.141592
Increase the cycles to keep going but be careful not to overheat your CPU.

I recommend Python to anyone who is starting out, it's free, cross-platform and good for scripting which comes in handy in this hobby.

[ark_ader]

Here's a simple Python program to calculate the value of pi.  Increase the number of cycles to increase the accuracy of the result. 
I based this on the Leibniz formula/infinite series.

cycles = 3000000
pi_val = 0.00

for i in range(1, cycles):
    if i % 2 == 1:
        pi_val += 4.0 / (i * 2 - 1)
    else:
        pi_val -= 4.0 / (i * 2 - 1)
print pi_val

It takes ~3,000,000 cycles to get to an accuracy of 6 decimal places i.e. 3.141592
Increase the cycles to keep going but be careful not to overheat your CPU.

I recommend Python to anyone who is starting out, it's free, cross-platform and good for scripting which comes in handy in this hobby.

If you like lists. 

[ChadTower]

that is an hours worth of code..right there
it will take u a month to fig it out...
hints here,winexplorer-set to xvb...copy paste to .txt,then rename to .xvb
from there point winexplorer to it
from there open the scroll boxs u will see it in tools
turn on  gutter lines..
compile away once u are happy

ed

Your name is Ramesh?

here

'Thanks to Microsoft - MSDN Library
'
'--
'Ramesh

[pbj]

He already posted that code, too...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,115417.msg1293991.html#msg1293991

[ed12]

Ramesh
is the nick that wrote the shell,the code in it is mine
compiled and ready to roll
i admit it is not my neatest work
because as a rule i line up to the gutter
but when i compiled the .txt over it is what came out
hence it is what it is
btw i love vb,once u are onto it
u will never look back

ed

[pbj]

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa364722%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Stop digging.

[ed12]

yes that is the main libary >example<
u can clearly see the header in the shell
that saves a full day of coding...and tell me pbj that u can do this ?
if so pony up pal..if not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- down and shut up..
i can post u 100 examples of vb..we use the base shell..
but hey do it yourself and find out what >'< means
or find out what >:< means
option explict..explain that 1 pbj

ed

[pbj]

yes that is the main libary >example<
u can clearly see the header in the shell
that saves a full day of coding...and tell me pbj that u can do this ?
if so pony up pal..if not ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- down and shut up..
i can post u 100 examples of vb..we use the base shell..
but hey do it yourself and find out what >'< means
or find out what >:< means
option explict..explain that 1 pbj

 

[ed12]

and i will add
i never have nor ever will take an authors name out of a script
this i am well known for ..>not doing it<,as i believe in respect
to the person whom put in the x-hour's to help me along
this even applys to my coding nick
i do not expect to ever see it removed

ed

[ark_ader]

and i will add
i never have nor ever will take an authors name out of a script
this i am well known for ..>not doing it<,as i believe in respect
to the person whom put in the x-hour's to help me along
this even applys to my coding nick
i do not expect to ever see it removed

ed

I do.  I don't think it is moral and completely unethical to take credit for someone else's work.

Just take the header off and replace it with your own.  We all stand on the shoulders of giants, so who cares which ones?

[ed12]

that is so true
very very true
but i tend to like to write my own code
and it ticks me when i find my name removed..as it has countless others in the past
so now days i hard code it right into  the running script
u would need to dig it out and then go from there
that to me means u
a=found a flaw
b=improved it

ed

[shmokes]

and i will add
i never have nor ever will take an authors name out of a script
this i am well known for ..>not doing it<,as i believe in respect
to the person whom put in the x-hour's to help me along
this even applys to my coding nick
i do not expect to ever see it removed

ed

I do.  I don't think it is moral and completely unethical to take credit for someone else's work.

Just take the header off and replace it with your own.  We all stand on the shoulders of giants, so who cares which ones?

Do you think this is why you are so bad at what you do?

[ark_ader]

and i will add
i never have nor ever will take an authors name out of a script
this i am well known for ..>not doing it<,as i believe in respect
to the person whom put in the x-hour's to help me along
this even applys to my coding nick
i do not expect to ever see it removed

ed

I do.  I don't think it is moral and completely unethical to take credit for someone else's work.

Just take the header off and replace it with your own.  We all stand on the shoulders of giants, so who cares which ones?

Do you think this is why you are so bad at what you do?

To you maybe as you lack any conviction.  I don't personally blame you though, for someone who has experienced failure of such magnitude, it doesn't surprise me that you are still cynical of others, their successes, and achievements.

[Vanguard]

Salaries in my area of expertise have never taken a hit.   I work in a niche area that requires a lot of math and OS knowledge.   There are only a handful of employers that would hire me too but luckily people that do what I do are in short  supply.

I've worked for 2 major recognizable companies and both are heavily populated with foreign nationals.   As I hiring manager, I find it very hard to find qualified American students.   Most kids today are learning web development skills and not true engineering.   I've interviewed PHD students who don't know what interrupts are or even how to explain the inner workings of a linked list.   They use a Java class and are oblivious to how the data structure is implemented.

It's very hard to find people who understand the gritty details of OS/computer architecture, assembly language and increasingly, even pointers.

[pbj]

So we should train legions of college students to work in a niche area with only a handful of employers?

[ChadTower]

It's very hard to find people who understand the gritty details of OS/computer architecture, assembly language and increasingly, even pointers.

These are not niche aspects of coding.  They're intermediate level concepts in a good Computer Science undergrad program.  Late Sophomore/early Junior year classes.

[ark_ader]

It's very hard to find people who understand the gritty details of OS/computer architecture, assembly language and increasingly, even pointers.

These are not niche aspects of coding.  They're intermediate level concepts in a good Computer Science undergrad program.  Late Sophomore/early Junior year classes.

Which we were taught back in 1985 during our O Level Computer Studies in High School.  I cut my teeth on 6502 Assembler and we were encouraged to code in Modua-2.  Now it is all Microsoft Office and basic computer usage, which in this day and age, is the requirement of 90% of employers.  Like I said you need to start early and introduce advanced algebra/calculus/differentials early in the academic year, as it is a important aspect of modern day system design and analysis.

[Vanguard]

So we should train legions of college students to work in a niche area with only a handful of employers?

No you teach real engineering skills.   I'm in a niche area that requires c, linear matrix algebra, and specialized types of CPU architecture.  The basic tools I learned in college gave me the tools I needed to learn the skills I'd need to write operating system components and to work on hardware design.   Most everything I learned for my niche came from my job.

However, if all I learned in college was Java, I'd never had gotten the job I have.   My niche is a specific skill in developing part of the OS and hardware.   There's hundreds of companies that do similar work, just not on the type of hardware I work on.   Companies, like Apple, Google, Broadcom, AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Qualcomm, Samsung, LG, Panasonic, etc, etc, etc all need skills that are becoming harder to find because colleges are churning out Java, C# and HTLM5 coders.

[Vanguard]

It's very hard to find people who understand the gritty details of OS/computer architecture, assembly language and increasingly, even pointers.

These are not niche aspects of coding.  They're intermediate level concepts in a good Computer Science undergrad program.  Late Sophomore/early Junior year classes.

I never said those were niche skills.  Those are basic skills that are needed to get your foot in the door at companies that need people for lower level engineering.   The problem is you take a course in assembly or data structures and it's a one time deal.   You get your grade and move on.   Then the remainder of your degree is spent learning web based stuff so you can work for Google.   I don't think a lot of these students even understand that the classes you choose to take for web dev is far different from the classes you take if you want to work on hardware or operating systems.

Colleges are still chasing the internet wave and pumping out web programmers.  Colleges have changed their curriculum to fill that market.  Some colleges have split their degree into a Comp Sci and Comp Systems.   Comp Sci is now web programming and Comp Systems is what Comp Sci was when I was in college.   OS, Hardware, digital design, AI, Graphics, Vision, (low level stuff).   The Comp Sci path these days is less rigorous with the math so it's also more popular. 

We have such a hard time finding enough people to fill jobs building low level OS components that we ship people from all over the world to the U.S. and pay them $90k a year straight out of college.

It's not hard to find students with C on their resume who can't code up a linked list or simple sort.   They took a C class in college and that's the last time they used it.

[ark_ader]

I got a distinction on all my C programming classes and I don't see the point of adding it on my CV.  It is just a tool box you use when you land a job and have the ability to create rather than operate.  If you come out of college with STEM degree and you cannot code, then you are an idiot in my opinion. 

What was the point in doing the degree in the first place if you cannot come out of the gate prepared for the industry?

[ed12]

i guess i am very old..as i understand
6500/6800/6802/z80/6808/z82..the full 9 nine yards
lord i even rem jakeupslater..1+1=? 1-1=? hex to decmial/etc
oh well

ed

[ChadTower]

I never said those were niche skills. 

So we should train legions of college students to work in a niche area with only a handful of employers?

He did.  I quoted you because you were the one who itemized the skills.  I wasn't clear enough in what I was responding to, I guess.

[pbj]

Well at least no one has claimed they learned assembly by using punch cards, so we've moved the goalposts slightly into modernity.

Specific skills needed only by a few result in smaller applicant pools and higher salaries.  If the market needs 90% Google programmers, I fail to see the point of wasting student time and money teaching students low level programming.  It sounds like the market has already corrected the situation and created alternative degrees for those 10%.

But, hey, I've been there.  When I was getting my bachelor's, they dropped the "here's how to assemble a computer" class.  I was completely appalled.  Student reaction was joyous, "screw that, I don't need to know how to plug in a hard drive!  I'm gonna write java code for Anderson Consulting!"  I couldn't wrap my head around the notion of people getting a "computer degree" and not having a basic knowledge of how the damn things worked.

In graduate school, I was involved with an "IT mentor" group.  What did every damn one of them say?  Get a basic job doing tech support for 2-3 years while developing skills and looking for the job you actually want.  Make sure you know how to do basic repairs.

"Have you tried turning it off and on" indeed.

 

[Vanguard]

Specific skills needed only by a few result in smaller applicant pools and higher salaries.  If the market needs 90% Google programmers, I fail to see the point of wasting student time and money teaching students low level programming.  It sounds like the market has already corrected the situation and created alternative degrees for those 10%.

Again, these aren't specific skills needed by a few.   What's happened is that in the past 5 years 3 major OS's have come on the scene with all new hardware architectures.   There's a huge demand for low level work but colleges are still pumping out Java programmers.   As our devices become smarter, we are only going to need more and more of these types of engineers.

Ironically, India and China are still producing students with tradition CompSci backgrounds and they are getting the jobs in this country or we are setting up shop in those countries instead.

Both of the last two companies I've worked for have hired legions of EE and CS people in Shanghai, Bangalore and Mumbai.

[Grasshopper]

It's been very interesting (and slightly depressing) reading though this thread. With regards to the "skills shortage", we have exactly the same situation here in the UK. Companies will typically ask for ridiculously long lists of highly specialised niche skills, offer a salary less than a college leaver would expect to get in most comparable professions, and then bleat on about "skills shortages" when they fail to find anyone suitable.

It's even worse for people just staring out. There are practically no entry level positions in the IT industry anymore, and very few companies are willing to offer  in-house training to their IT staff. If you've got a good recent degree in an IT related subject, and the stuff you learned at university just happens to match the set of niche skills that the company is after, then you've got a chance. But for everyone else, forget it.

Another depressing feature of IT recruitment is how rapidly hard won skills become devalued. If an IT professional is made redundant and gets a non-IT job to tide himself over, then after about a year or so, his IT skills will be practically worthless in the jobs market. For some reason, companies only seem to care about recent experience.

None of this is actually new. IT recruitment practices have always been notoriously shortsighted and irrational. But at least in the past, for those people who could get a foot in the door, the salaries were high enough to (just about) make up for all the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.

These days, with salaries plummeting, and chronic job insecurity, IT is no longer really an attractive career option.

So getting back to the original thread topic, I'd say to anyone just starting out, by all means learn to code as a hobby. But if you're after a solid, well-paying career then you're better off looking elsewhere.

[Grasshopper]

I do.  I don't think it is moral and completely unethical to take credit for someone else's work.

Just take the header off and replace it with your own.  We all stand on the shoulders of giants, so who cares which ones?

Seriously? Are you the same guy who's always lecturing others around here about copyright/IP infringement, or has someone else hacked into ark_ader's account?

[ark_ader]

It's been very interesting (and slightly depressing) reading though this thread. With regards to the "skills shortage", we have exactly the same situation here in the UK. Companies will typically ask for ridiculously long lists of highly specialised niche skills, offer a salary less than a college leaver would expect to get in most comparable professions, and then bleat on about "skills shortages" when they fail to find anyone suitable.

It's even worse for people just staring out. There are practically no entry level positions in the IT industry anymore, and very few companies are willing to offer  in-house training to their IT staff. If you've got a good recent degree in an IT related subject, and the stuff you learned at university just happens to match the set of niche skills that the company is after, then you've got a chance. But for everyone else, forget it.

Another depressing feature of IT recruitment is how rapidly hard won skills become devalued. If an IT professional is made redundant and gets a non-IT job to tide himself over, then after about a year or so, his IT skills will be practically worthless in the jobs market. For some reason, companies only seem to care about recent experience.

None of this is actually new. IT recruitment practices have always been notoriously shortsighted and irrational. But at least in the past, for those people who could get a foot in the door, the salaries were high enough to (just about) make up for all the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.

These days, with salaries plummeting, and chronic job insecurity, IT is no longer really an attractive career option.

So getting back to the original thread topic, I'd say to anyone just starting out, by all means learn to code as a hobby. But if you're after a solid, well-paying career then you're better off looking elsewhere.

Looking for entry level positions? Checkout jobserve.com.  Plenty of them, but prepared to go in as a contractor at £15 p/h but even at that rate you would be just be breaking even after all that outlay.  Lots of money to be made, but you better know your ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, with certs to back you up.  Degrees no longer cut it, well maybe except mine...

I do.  I don't think it is moral and completely unethical to take credit for someone else's work.

Just take the header off and replace it with your own.  We all stand on the shoulders of giants, so who cares which ones?

Seriously? Are you the same guy who's always lecturing others around here about copyright/IP infringement, or has someone else hacked into ark_ader's account?

I don't worry about IP infringement anymore.  It is a losing battle.  Nobody cares. After I change code, it becomes mine, as long as I do not pass it off as the original coder, it is legal.  There is no actual copyright on code.  The documentation on the other hand....

So you are free to do whatchoolike