96,000 bitcoins or 100 million dollars stollen

[CoryBee]

Ridiculous....



http://hackaday.com/2013/12/03/stealing-100-million-in-bitcoins/

http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2013/12/theres-%C2%A360m-bitcoin-heist-going-down-right-now-and-you-can-watch-real-time

[Slippyblade]

Bwahaha!  I'm a pretty serious supporter of Bitcoin, but this is hilarious.  I almost guarantee that someone is going to die over this.  I love the tracking method, too.   

[CoryBee]

Bwahaha!  I'm a pretty serious supporter of Bitcoin, but this is hilarious.  I almost guarantee that someone is going to die over this.  I love the tracking method, too.   

Yea, I have been following this and....just wow. This is ridiculous....

Already has bountys on his head. 100million and can't touch a dime of it or he would most certainly be killed..... ---fudgesicle---.....

Frantically trying to wash his money and being caught every time, 100s of wallets and these 2 ninjas are following him like mad.

[yotsuya]

Over this last weekend, it was revealed this bug in the Sheep Marketplace site wasn’t responsible for the loss of 5,400 coins, but instead 96,000 BTC, or $100 million USD, making this one of the largest thefts of imaginary money of all time.

Fix't it for them.

[hypernova]

I so hope they get away with it.  Imagine the backlash this faux currency will endure. 

[Slippyblade]

About the same backlash the govt gets for losing 12 trillion dollars.  None what so ever.

[CoryBee]

About the same backlash the govt gets for losing 12 trillion dollars.  None what so ever.

This 

[thehammer12]

I think he will get away with it.

[pbj]

This is one VERY elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons.

[yotsuya]

[shponglefan]

I thought Bitcoins were supposed to be mostly untrackable.  So how is it that this person would get ID'd the minute they try to spend any? 

edited to add:  Okay, spent a bunch of time reading through the stories and understanding how (some) of it works.  Quite fascinating; it's got the makings of a real-life cyber thriller.

[thehammer12]

I thought Bitcoins were supposed to be mostly untrackable.  So how is it that this person would get ID'd the minute they try to spend any? 

edited to add:  Okay, spent a bunch of time reading through the stories and understanding how (some) of it works.  Quite fascinating; it's got the makings of a real-life cyber thriller.

In a way you can only see the address via blockchain that received the bitcoin,  thats pretty much it. IMHO the only way he can get caught is if he tries to swap for cash in person or for trade and even then he would have to launder with someone who would know about him and or his bitcoin address....

Once that happens the person/s who is tracking him would be following transactions on the new person who accepted the bitcoin and on and on.  As a blockchain user myself, I think to be truly untraceable they would have to hide the transactions feature and maybe keep generating new addresses and mask it.

[danny_galaga]

Some years ago an Irish gang stage the largest robbery in UK history. I think it was tens of millions of pounds in cash. Because the government was certain it was going to be used for terrorist activities, you know what they did? Cancelled ALL notes in circulation! Anyone who wanted to keep any cash they had under the bed had to bring it in to the bank to be swapped with a new run of notes. Those robbers ended up with tens of millions of nothing. This reminds me of that some how...

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not sure how considering, these "thieves" essentially stole absolutely nothing.  At least real money had some initial value. 

Bitcoins.... kids today and their crazy fads. 

[CoryBee]

I'm not sure how considering, these "thieves" essentially stole absolutely nothing.  At least real money had some initial value. 

Bitcoins.... kids today and their crazy fads.

Really?

[Slippyblade]

I'm not sure how considering, these "thieves" essentially stole absolutely nothing.  At least real money had some initial value. 

Really?  Seriously?

I somehow gain access to a major corporation and download their entire customer database.  I then offer it to their competitor.  I didn't steal anything right?  It has no "initial value" by your definitions.  Just because you don't see the value of something doesn't mean it has no value.

[Howard_Casto]

Well that's an example that just doesn't apply.  A customer database is worthless, but one's privacy isn't.  It's an entirely different argument and topic. 

A better example would be someone stealing a bunch of coke rewards points.  They aren't real currency and have no value, they are prize points.  In other words like the others have alluded to it's like stealing monopoly money.  Yes, of course you can convert bitcoins into actual money, but so long as they are still in bitcoin form, which is trackable.... they are worthless.  It's like stealing travelers checks....  an inconvenience to the victims and a waste of time for the thief.

And actually if we are getting into the philosophical aspect of business yes, if I don't see the value of something it is worthless, at least to me, and as a consumer that's all that matters.

But to rebuke, just because you  don't understand how currency works doesn't mean you are right. 

[yotsuya]

All these recent posts on Bitcoin are really the first I had heard of them, so it's been interesting reading about them.

I like the analogy of Bitcoins to Coke rewards points.

[pbj]

A customer database is worthless

LOL wow. 

Keep ---smurfing--- that chicken, Howard.

[JDFan]

I'm not sure how considering, these "thieves" essentially stole absolutely nothing.  At least real money had some initial value. 

Really?  Seriously?

I somehow gain access to a major corporation and download their entire customer database.  I then offer it to their competitor.  I didn't steal anything right?  It has no "initial value" by your definitions.  Just because you don't see the value of something doesn't mean it has no value.

That's one of the problems with a new form of currency that has no govt. backing it - if it is stolen there is no real crime committed -- from the looks of it it was most likely the entire reason the "SHEEP.COM" website came into existence, I mean come on the name gives you all the clue you need !! The guys that set it up saw the original site get closed down and decided if they showed up with a new site the "Sheep" would flock to the site and give them all of the info they needed to make off with all of those bitcoins and no government is going to do anything to try and get them back since they don't get any revenue from any transaction using them and would prefer if the virtual currency just disappeared so they could get back to collection their tax revenue from the transactions.

[Xiaou2]

That's one of the problems with a new form of currency that has no govt. backing

 With your current currency, the govt. matters very little.. because the Fed (a PRIVATE non-govt accountable bank/agency) can choose to devalue it at any time it chooses... making it worth less and less.   And thats exactly what they have been doing.

 The idea behind BC may have been to stop such a thing..   On the other hand, it could have been created by the very same people whom really control things.  A 100% Digital currency, with paper & coin abolished.. it would create a 100% NSA/IRS  trace on everyone.  Meaning, you couldnt ever work 'under the table', and possibly lead to things like having to pay taxes on selling used games/items.  It also means ultimately means that if you create an uproar, they can just lock or zero your account.  Look to China, where activists are being caught even without this step... and you can imagine how far it could be taken.

 Theres also the whole computer farming aspect which has always mads me wonder.   As far back as the distributed computing efforts of protein unfolding...   Ive considered that the work being done could ultimately be for something completely unrelated..  such as for rendering CGI in the latest propagandist movie..  or for figuring out some massive super-bug they want to unleash.   It could be to figure out all the answers, then hide the solutions.. or patent them so that nobody can use them without a life savings worth of money.  Point being.. if you have no way to verify it, you simply dont know for sure whats really going on.  Same way some people have donated money to churches and of foundations... only to realize that the money was being used for personal gain, or that only a fraction of your donation actually gets put to its intended purpose.

 FYI - The FED currently has been asked by reps in our govt. to account for a missing Trillion dollars.  That was over a yr ago I believe.  At the time of asking, none of the Fed was able to reply with an honest informative answer.   And AFAIK, quite simply put.. it doesnt have to... as theres no law that says the Fed has to be audited, and or that we have any power over them period.

 This all just one part of the massive corruption..  which includes insider trading, stock market manipulation tactics...etc.


 

[SNAAKE]

wtf is a bitcoin

[pbj]

possibly lead to things like having to pay taxes on selling used games/items.

Oh great, another one of those "you have to pay taxes on the money you make on a garage sale" people.  If you sell something for less than you paid for it, you have lost money, you have not generated income.


I bet you think felons can't vote.

[danny_galaga]

I'm not sure how considering, these "thieves" essentially stole absolutely nothing.  At least real money had some initial value. 

Bitcoins.... kids today and their crazy fads.

Might be a first, but I actually agree with you 

[SavannahLion]

possibly lead to things like having to pay taxes on selling used games/items.

Oh great, another one of those "you have to pay taxes on the money you make on a garage sale" people.  If you sell something for less than you paid for it, you have lost money, you have not generated income.

Depending on where you live, there is something akin to a tax. I wouldn't really call it tax per se though. Some cities or counties require permits in order to do a Garage or Yard sale. Here is Pasadena's Permit page on the matter. City of Salinas requires it as well.

Interestingy, San Francisco and Vallejo, two cities notorious for the number of things requiring a permit or the number of ---uvulas--- insisting that you get a permit actually don't require Garage Sale permits unless you exceed some threshold.

One thing I see a lot of is people citing you need the California Sellers Permit from the Board of Equalization. The BoE permit isn't actually required for garage sales unless you have more than two (or three?) per year or you already have a business of some sort (at which point, it's already a wash. You should already have a permit anyways.)

[Slippyblade]

Regarding California taxes...  I live in Arizona and make and sell stuff at Farmer and Flea markets and occasional medievel themed events.  I MUCH prefer doing business in California than Arizona.  CA's sales tax system is sooooo much more streamlined than AZ.  In Arizona you need a state tax license (which is dirt cheap, $12, never expires) then you need a separate license for each city you do business in (which varies in price, but averages about $50 annually per city).  Then you need to file a sales tax for for the state each month and a separate form for each city.  So if I've done a market in four different cities in AZ over a month, I have to file 5 different forms.

CA...  One license.  One form.  LOVE it.

[ChadTower]

Funny... last time I bought a used car I paid sales tax... lots of used items, sold at far less than retail, carry a sales tax.

[pbj]

Funny... last time I bought a used car I paid sales tax... lots of used items, sold at far less than retail, carry a sales tax.

That's nice but the topic is "if you sell something at a loss do you have to pay income tax on it."  I sold my truck Saturday.  I will not pay income tax on what I got for it. 

The reason you need a business license at a certain threshold of sales is because nobody believes that you would intentionally sell thousands of dollars worth of items at a loss.

Garage sale permits are just the crown taxing everything, though I imagine it helps cover costs of taking down abandoned signs and sets up penalties for people that run permanent flea markets out of their yard.