No...an actual Barcade!

[Maximus]

As part of my upcoming Garage-to-arcade renovation I'll be building a freestanding bar unit that will go in the middle of the room, something along these basic lines...



Building on the experience I got from the Barrel of Kong idea, I'd like to take that concept and flush it out a little into a full size bar format. Same idea with the monitors under the glass bartop, but this time instead of emulated arcade games, I was thinking of putting in some classic consoles.



I think I'd have room for about 3 setups. I'd like to be able to house the consoles, monitors and controllers all within the bar top itself and also have drawers for the console cartridges/disks etc. It would be nice if the screens were CRT, but heat may be an issue, it would be bitchin' if I could get smaller screens so they are more personal/dinky/cute as the player would be sitting really close.

I'm thinking something like a SNES, a Dreamcast and a PS1.

[Yvan256]

Get three PSOne LCD screens. 

[BadMouth]

In case you haven't seen this one: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/09/best-transformer-ever-the-home-bar-thats-an-arcade-machine/

I'm not sure about the ergonomics, but I'm not a fan of cocktail tables either.

[jdbailey1206]

I know giving ideas to you and Le Chuck likes throwing a Wacky Wall Walker anywhere and trying to make it stick, but it would be nice to see if you could some how make the monitors recess into the bar when not needed and getting them to pull up and out for when they are in use. 

[Maximus]

In case you haven't seen this one: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/09/best-transformer-ever-the-home-bar-thats-an-arcade-machine/

I'm not sure about the ergonomics, but I'm not a fan of cocktail tables either.

Nice idea, the ergonomics do look a little off though.

The big screen on the wall will be driven by an Optoma HD20 projector that I already own, it would be nice to be able to mirror any of the consoles up onto the big screen too, that would make for some fun game tournament style entertainment. Also, more for myself I'll have a new gen console hooked into the projector for playing from the couch. If I wire the old-gen console controllers properly then it should be easy enough to mirror the console to the big projector and just sling the controllers over the back of the bar into the couch area to play like that too.

[Maximus]

I know giving ideas to you and Le Chuck likes throwing a Wacky Wall Walker anywhere and trying to make it stick, but it would be nice to see if you could some how make the monitors recess into the bar when not needed and getting them to pull up and out for when they are in use.

LOL, I guess you're right. Well the monitors would be fixed at a nice angle under the glass, maybe not quite so James Bond but infinitely more reliable and less problematic.

[yotsuya]

I like this idea, Griff! However, I wouldn't make it so that people could change games- too much potential for trouble. You as host could set a game per console before the party, or set it up so that the consoles are running vie emulation if you want them to change games.

I wouldn't worry so much about ergonomics. I see these as a timewaster/something to do for a few minutes at the bar rather than people playing them all day. In that regard, I think these could function as a great idea.

[Maximus]

Yep Yot I think you nailed it right there. I was wondering if you could get a multi-cart for the SNES with a bunch of games on it (but we wont talk about those kind of things here).

If I did decide to emulate, I would still want to use the original controllers though. And I've yet to see a decent Dreamcast emulator that isn't a huge pain in the ass to set up.

[JDFan]

Sounds like you might need to take a trip to VEGAS to do research for the project !!!  -- (I've seen similar setups in a couple casinos in Vegas with video slot\poker machines built into the bar)

[Maximus]

Funny you should say that, I'm heading out there the weekend before Xmas with my younger brother when he arrives here in the states. But yeah I've seen those setups, that's pretty much the same format.

[rablack97]

 

Nice setup griff

[Maximus]

Nice setup griff

Thanks man, it's a long way off but at least I know the direction I want to head in. If all goes well I'll be able to purge the garage of everything except my cabinets this weekend as my workshop should be completed. Next stage is electrical upgrade to 200A, sub panel, oulets and then paint.

[pbj]

Less home theater, more pinball machines.

[Maximus]

Less home theater, more pinball machines.

and sandwiches

[pbj]

Life is too short for sandwiches.

[Maximus]

Looking on CL it seems that 13" CRT TV's are everywhere for next to nothing, I think these would make the perfect little monitors for that style of close up viewing, of course they take up less space too.

[BadMouth]

Looking on CL it seems that 13" CRT TV's are everywhere for next to nothing, I think these would make the perfect little monitors for that style of close up viewing, of course they take up less space too.

Those usually only have composite input.

There are usually 15" CRT VGA monitors for free around.
Lots of time people don't bother listing them, assuming nobody wants them.
Ask around.

[Maximus]

Those usually only have composite input.

 I've seen plenty with the little Yellow RCA jack, I didn't think those consoles had anything fancier as far as video out

[BadMouth]

Those usually only have composite input.

 I've seen plenty with the little Yellow RCA jack, I didn't think those consoles had anything fancier as far as video out

didn't realize you had settled on consoles.  carry on.

[Maximus]

didn't realize you had settled on consoles.  carry on.

I think I am most likely to go down that road as I've yet to find an idiot proof solution to emulation to be honest.

[opt2not]

I am jealous of your free-time and space. Neither of which I have anymore...

[rCadeGaming]

I've seen plenty with the little Yellow RCA jack, I didn't think those consoles had anything fancier as far as video out

You can get 15kHz RGB from almost everything after the NES without any internal modification, only the appropriate cabling is needed.  That being said, while I'm normally all about RGB from my consoles, the problems of composite won't really be distinguishable on a CRT that small.

[Maximus]

yeah the free time is rapidly depleting, but I do have some space for the hobby now we are in the new place.

A quick question about emulation. I know I can easily run up to 4 monitors on a cheap kepler based video card, with these emulators running very light code and not taxing the CPU too much for something like a PS1 or SNES emulation, I wonder if I could run 3 emulators simultaneously on one PC, each one on a different screen with USB controllers in the original style all mapped to their dedicated EMU.

[matsadona]

I just love the idea of this concept of a true “bartop”, and would love to do something similar one day.
If the positioning of the CRT’s in the desk aren’t optimal, maybe some clever use of mirrors might do it?

If it was me, I would put in some 60-in-1 boards since they have a lot of classics and are quite convenient to install and maintain.
They can be changed to output either 15kHz RGB or standard VGA, so either cheap TV’s or computer monitors can be used.

[yotsuya]

I just love the idea of this concept of a true “bartop”, and would love to do something similar one day.
If the positioning of the CRT’s in the desk aren’t optimal, maybe some clever use of mirrors might do it?

If it was me, I would put in some 60-in-1 boards since they have a lot of classics and are quite convenient to install and maintain.
They can be changed to output either 15kHz RGB or standard VGA, so either cheap TV’s or computer monitors can be used.

He wants to run console games on them, not arcade games.

[thomas_surles]

I hope it is somewhat spill proof.

[Locke141]

I love clasic consul emulators and use them often. I also have a very large collection of classic original systems.

I would go with original hardware  (Except for the NES I would use the special edition top loaded version of the system that came out years later) and use a multi cartage. You just fill a sim card with roms and they play on the original hardware and you can find them for lots of cartage systems. I can't find the one I almost buy every time I look at it right now, I'll post when I do. Here are to links to give you an idea. I would also have it so one could see my sweet original hardware behind glass under the CRT on a shelf by there knees .


You could also buy some three in one consuls. Note: there are lots of models and not all are as good as others. Here is one picked at random from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperkin-Retron-System-GENESIS-Nintendo-Entertainment/dp/B003O3EFY2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1383760026&sr=8-3&keywords=snes

[Maximus]

Thanks for the info, I did see the multicarts, although you may not want to link them here as I think you may be getting close to violating some of the forums rules. Not sure, but just to be safe.

[Locke141]

Thanks for the info, I did see the multicarts, although you may not want to link them here as I think you may be getting close to violating some of the forums rules. Not sure, but just to be safe.

links removed, just incase.

I think the links were OK. The ones I linked to don't come with roms, you have to get your own and put them on a SD card.

 
 

[Maximus]

I'll have plenty of time to think about what systems I want put in, the only ones I know for sure right now are...

- SNES with MultiCart
- Dreamcast with Soul Calibur, Jet Grind Radio, Powerstone 2, Crazy Taxi & Sonic Adventure, Skies of Arcadia.

For the next generation system I may be leaning toward PS4. Karaoke is a big deal in our house, and we love the Singstar line of games from Sony. Xbox tried to make their own version but it just sucks balls requiring you to constantly swap disks, can't download the songs to the hard drive, all kinds of issues. So that could be enough to sway us to PS4 rather than XBone

My other ALLLLLLL time fave retro console game is the original Parappa the Rappa from PS1, but the thing is that it's about the only PS1 game that I would care to run, so I'm not sure that I want to take up a 'console slot' with one that only runs one game. (To be honest I've considered building a full-size dedicated Parappa Cab with special button layout and big speakers, if any console game deserved a dedicated cab, for me it was Parappa)

[Nephasth]

Thanks for the info, I did see the multicarts, although you may not want to link them here as I think you may be getting close to violating some of the forums rules. Not sure, but just to be safe.

Not that you give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about the rules or anything...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134621
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,130627

 

Welcome back, I missed you.

[Locke141]

+1 on SNES with multi car.


How are you going to do the dream cast? Emulated or a original hardware with a SD card hack? 

If you going to emulate a dream cast, why not just add a PS1 emulator to the pc running that station? If I went that far I would definitely add a Saturn emulator as well.

[Maximus]

How are you going to do the dream cast? Emulated or a original hardware with a SD card hacks? 

If you going to emulate a dream cast way not just add a PS1 emulated to the pc running that station? If I went that fare I would definitely add a Saturn emulator as well.

I was going to run original hardware for the Dreamcast as I have found the emulators to be pretty awful, although I haven't looked at Demul or Chankast in a while. I din't know there was an SD card hack for the DC I will have to research that.

[Locke141]

My 100th post! I was hoping to make it a mater progress update on my little build    

There are blog post and youtube videos all over the google's about the SD hack. It looks cool but I have never tried it personally.

[HaRuMaN]

For DC you gotta have MVC2... and Ikaruga.

[TKW4rr10r]

For DC you gotta have MVC2... and Ikaruga.

+1 on MVC2

Was going to comment on your thoughts about having a PC running multiple emulators (late to the thread as normal), but I see you are doing the wise thing and separating the systems. Trying to have something like that up and running would be more trouble than it's worth, and when a problem arises then all of the seats could be down.

Type of screen is all about what size you are looking for, and if you can spare the space under the bar top. You are already squeezing a lot into the area, and if you are going with original consoles you may need the space for controls, carts. etc. Plus LCDs would be easier to hide under a sheet of smoked glass if going for that "stealth and wow" effect. Otherwise I say go for some smaller VGA CRTs for the newer consoles (dreamcast, ps1) and grab a few cheap small TVs from goodwill for the NES/SNES.

[HaRuMaN]

Speaking of Goodwill, the ones in my area have EVERY tube TV, no matter the size, priced at $1.  Not sure if it's like that nationally.  I've been picking up a couple here or there, found a nice 19" color to hook the Atari up to.

[Maximus]

I'd like to do CRT for the three seated consoles, I'd also like to present the consoles in some way that people can see them, I appreciate the aesthetics and they are iconic pieces in their own right that I think people will enjoy seeing again. In my head I see them sitting under glass but I haven't really thought through how I'd access them easily to swap games.

I did have the idea of having a corner or side tower with a glass door and shelves, each console on a shelf, then extend the game controller leads so they came out next to the monitors built into the bar.

[rCadeGaming]

Ikaruga is great, but is best on a vertical monitor.

I say go for some smaller VGA CRTs for the newer consoles (dreamcast, ps1) and grab a few cheap small TVs from goodwill for the NES/SNES.

If there is a monitor that will only ever be hooked to a Dreamcast, VGA would work, but the benefits won't be noticeable on such a small CRT.  VGA won't work at all for PS1 without an upscaler, it outputs 15kHz only.

This being said, Maximus, you mentioned having the ability to display the consoles on the projector.  That is where RGB would be desired, as composite won't look too good on a huge screen.  With some custom cabling you might be able to send composite to the TV's and RGB to the projector either simultaneously or at the flip of a switch.  Interested in the details of that?

Maybe you could put the consoles up in the shelves above the bar there.  The cartridges/discs could be lined up on shelves up there, right next to the consoles.  You could hide the wires going down in the pillars, and the wires to the projector could go right up into the ceiling (assuming that's where the projector is).  Not sure if that would be too high up, maybe you could angle the consoles forward a little bit to make them easier to reach.

[Maximus]

Thanks, some cool ideas there.

I guess you're right on the RGB thing, it would make more sense if I do indeed want to mirror things to the projector. Monoprice makes some nice matrix switchers for multiple input multiple output solutions, I'll have to have a poke around.

On my way to look at a DC this afternoon, Console + cables, 3 SEGA controllers, 2 VMUs and a memory card, already modded, guy says it works perfect, wants $40.

[rCadeGaming]

I'm not sure about a matrix switch.  Don't you want each console connected to a bartop display at all times?  You just need a switch to pick which one would connect to the projector as well.

[Maximus]

yeah I guess I can just do a split at each console and then have a selector that goes to the projector.

[rCadeGaming]

The big question is whether your projector will accept 15kHz RGB.  If so, you can get composite video and RGB out of these consoles simultaneously.  If not, things become more complicated.  Still doable though.

[Locke141]

If you can do the SD card hack for DC and a multi cart for the SNES you would never need to change physical media on them.

The only question is whats the 3rd consul? If you want a PS1, the PS2 is backward compatible, so are some models of the PS3. Perhaps a hack PS3 would be a nice clean solution. You could dump game back ups on the the hard drive and not mess with physical media at all.

A Xbox 1 running XBMC can do most consoles nicely, up to the 16 bit gems. It would be a nice way to add a multi system solution.     

I like your shelf idea at one end of the bar. You could have your SNES and DC dedicated to there own CRT's and have a mix of systems on the shelf for the 3rd CRT.

If you want to do something out of the box, I saw a video of a 100 disk CD changer hacked to a Xbox 360. That would probably not be a clean or practical solution.
 

[rCadeGaming]

The PS2 backwards compatibility is a good point.  It's quite good, so there's not really much reason to have an actual PS1 anymore.  The PS3 backwards compatibility is not very good though, it adds a good bit of lag, and can't output proper 240p, 480i is the minimum.

These other emulators will add at least one frame of lag as well, possibly several depending on the method of vsync.  I've tried NES emulation on a Dreamcast, and I could notice the lag just by feel.  Games I was familiar with, especially the original Super Mario Bros., felt noticeably off.  Not as tight as the real thing.  Isn't part of this about showing off the real console, and the authenticity of the real controller?

[Maximus]

Yeah I dont think I want to run any emulation for this it's just not the same.

Snagged a sweet little bundle from CL for $40 last night


It came with a few originals and a bunch of 'backups' although it doesn't seem to play the burned discs

[rCadeGaming]

it doesn't seem to play the burned discs

It may need a boot disc.  It has to do with how the iso was prepared, how it was burned, and what model Dreamcast you have.  Not that I know anything about that anyway .  You can find a lot of things on the googles these days though.

Actually, there is some debate over whether playing cheap CD-R's will wear out your disc drive more quickly.  I'm not sure of the "final verdict" on that debate, but the safest bet is to buy a real copy of anything you'll play often.  Playing a CD-R once in a while to try before you buy is probably ok, but if you must use a copy regularly, for example if you want to play a Japanese-exclusive game (Ikaruga and a lot of other shmups) without a modchip or boot disc, burning it to a quality CD-R is a safer option.  Taiyo Yuden makes quality discs.  Most commonly available CD-R's are garbage.

[Maximus]

Yeah I'm not after that many titles so it wont hurt to just pick up the proper disks, nice to have the art and boxes etc too.

[a1pharm]

I'm excited to see where you go with this project, but I want you to consider one change:

Pinball

You don't have a pinball machine in your plans.  The Future Pinball program has been having a surge in ultra high quality work, and it would be a shame if you don't allow room for a PinSim cab in your design.  EDIT: just saw your pincab thread, very nice.

I've offered up my supreme MS Paint skill set to create a photorealistic rendition of where you may want to consider putting the table (you're welcome).

Cheers!
 

[Maximus]

Lol my Alchemy VPin is right there next to the door

[a1pharm]

Lol my Alchemy VPin is right there next to the door

I must have spent too much time in CoryBee's stash that I missed this detail.  I'm sure you have already ensured that the side art will be properly showcased in your arrangement.  Carry on!

[Maximus]

Oh yeah especially considering the side art is all video

[matsadona]

He wants to run console games on them, not arcade games.

Indeed, that's why I added the comment "if it was me" referring to what I would like to do in the future with the same concept.
And it could also be valid if he suddenly change his mind about the consoles but keeping the concept.

[Locke141]

The PS2 backwards compatibility is a good point.  It's quite good, so there's not really much reason to have an actual PS1 anymore.  The PS3 backwards compatibility is not very good though, it adds a good bit of lag, and can't output proper 240p, 480i is the minimum.

These other emulators will add at least one frame of lag as well, possibly several depending on the method of vsync.  I've tried NES emulation on a Dreamcast, and I could notice the lag just by feel.  Games I was familiar with, especially the original Super Mario Bros., felt noticeably off.  Not as tight as the real thing.  Isn't part of this about showing off the real console, and the authenticity of the real controller?

That's because the PS2 mostly does not emulate PS1. Every PS2 had the PS1 CPU in it as an I/O processor and some, many older models, had even more PS1 chips, so it was more or less native. All PS3's do 100% emulation back to PS1.  Older PS3's have most of the PS2 chips for the same reason. The only PS1 games I played on my PS3 were RPG's (FF7, Star ocean 2, and others) worked great.

If the only PS1 game you wanted was Parappa the rapper a moded older PS3 should do fine. You could also dump backups of other PS1/2/3 games on the hard drive, if you don't want to have to mess with physical media.         

I completely agree about only using the original hardware. I have over 20 original systems, mostly from thrift stores and yard sales. I just wanted to share ideas. If emulations 100% out don't get any of the new slim NES or the 3 in 1 systems. They all use system on a chip emulation. I would like to point out, not all emulations are equal. Try using an emulations made for accuracy like KEGA vs one made with lots of extra needless features. 
Note:The special addition NES I posted to earlier runs games natively and they are much more reliable then the older classic gray rectangles.

Personally I would put in a SEGA Genesis/CD/32X on the 3rd CRT, They can play Master system and Game Gear games natively off a multi cart. Better yet I would put my collection of systems and games above the bar and use a switcher to pick witch system goes to the 3rd CRT or to the big screen.     

[CoryBee]

I must have spent too much time in CoryBee's stash that I missed this detail.

[rCadeGaming]

The only PS1 games I played on my PS3 were RPG's (FF7, Star ocean 2, and others) worked great.

If the only PS1 game you wanted was Parappa the rapper a moded older PS3 should do fine.

RPG's are fine because input lag doesn't really matter in most cases.  Parappa is a rhythm game though; any input lag will be highly detrimental.

The special addition NES I posted to earlier runs games natively and they are much more reliable then the older classic gray rectangles.

There's nothing wrong with the original NES once you've fixed two important things.  Everyone knows that replacing the pin connector will help it start up more reliably, but that's actually only half of the solution.  A lot of the time, the blinking screen is caused by the region lockout chip.  It can be disabled by raising pin on the chip and connecting to ground, or even just cutting it off.  I did this to mine and it starts right up the first time you put in the cartridge almost 100% reliably, no need to blow on the cartridge, etc. (which is a bad idea btw).

Personally I would put in a SEGA Genesis/CD/32X on the 3rd CRT

+1 on a Genesis, but no so much on a 32X.  I makes the system twice as tall, and I can count on one hand the number of games for it that are even worth playing.  Kind of the same thing with the Sega CD.  It's great if you're really into 16-bit shmups, but there's still not that many if you don't count arcade ports.

Better yet I would put my collection of systems and games above the bar

That's what I was saying.  Just too lazy to draw an arrow.

[Maximus]

Yep I can't play Parappa on the emulated systems because it needs twitch speed for mad rappin' yo  which is why i may leave it for a different solution, hard to say so early into this part of the project.

I don't want to put the consoles up top as it will be awkward to reach, people wont really be able to see them, and I want to keep those cupboards for glasses, beer mats, crack pipes etc. 

[Locke141]

Personally I would put in a SEGA Genesis/CD/32X on the 3rd CRT

+1 on a Genesis, but no so much on a 32X.  I makes the system twice as tall, and I can count on one hand the number of games for it that are even worth playing.  Kind of the same thing with the Sega CD.  It's great if you're really into 16-bit shmups, but there's still not that many if you don't count arcade ports.


[/quote]

Yes, but it looks cool and they are cheep on ebay. As for the Saga CD there are lots of games like lunar, monkey island, and sonic CD.

I want to try your this SNES hack you speck of.

[rCadeGaming]

Meh.  I've had a 32X for years, but I always up end up playing regular Genesis games, not 32X games.  I got sick of the extra 3 inches of shelf height it was wasting.

NES mod?
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/nintendo/nes-lockout.htm

Maximus, yeah I thought it might be too high, but wasn't sure of your dimensions.

[pbj]

Meh.  I've had a 32X for years, but I always up end up playing regular Genesis games, not 32X games.  I got sick of the extra 3 inches of shelf height it was wasting.

As much as I hate derailing threads, did you ever try something like Sonic 1 plugged into a 32X?  I was told playing it through the 32X would eliminate the slowdown when he got hit and lost his rings.  By the time I heard that claim, I had long gotten rid of the thing.

 

[Maximus]

As much as I hate derailing threads

 

[mike boss]

This is phenomenal.

[Maximus]

Got most of the garage emptied out this weekend so now I can start playing with the space a little.

[Bender]

I'd love the see the CRT's slightly angled under a smoked glass Bartop surface, would be hard to notice they were even there till they were turned on

[Jigenjuke]

I'd love the see the CRT's slightly angled under a smoked glass Bartop surface, would be hard to notice they were even there till they were turned on

I concur!

JIgenjuke

[Bender]

something like this

[Maximus]

Yes absolutely something along those lines

[mike boss]

Really like following this thread, I think this build is just awesome.
I've aslo learned a few things. I had no knowledge of these multicarts. (I'll need to look into this)
I like and agree with the idea of the original game pads and also agree that Dreamcast emulation seems to be "fussy." Not to mention the fact that the Dreamcast out of the box w/o any "alteration" can play your back up games. So getting your favorites is rather easy.

From what I've tired other consoles like NES, SNES, and even N64 emulate quite well.
I actually have 6 "altered" XBOX consoles loaded with complete US ROM sets and emulators and have been happy with the game play.

[Maximus]

Watched our first big movie in the cave tonight. A very rough working model but it was lots of big booming fun. Very raw right now but testing the space like this for a while is a good plan

[jdbailey1206]

Watched our first big movie in the cave tonight. A very rough working model but it was lots of big booming fun. Very raw right now but testing the space like this for a while is a good plan

All I can think of when I see this is the episode of the Simpsons called Homer the Moe when Homer turns his garage into a bar and Marge pulls in with the car and almost runs everyone over.  Or if you will 'Moe's' everyone over.